The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: Yeah. I had only recently found out what the word meant, and yeah, the heteronormativity thing definitely made me a bit shocked when I learned what it was. I think I had or still have some internal homophobic stuff to work through; which is a totally different thing that I'll probably rant about another time. Basically what I'm trying to say is I agree Thanks for the agreement, I guess Yeah I've heard really awful stuff about people who grew up knowing that they were gay, trans, etc. but being in an extremely phobic environment they still have an internalized hatred of that part of themselves. It's just awful. And If you're working through anything like that, I'm really sorry. I'm lucky that me and my brother grew up in an environment that mostly lacks explicit homophobia and generally has a lot of support. I'd be happy to listen to that rant when it feels like the right time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: Thanks for the agreement, I guess Yeah I've heard really awful stuff about people who grew up knowing that they were gay, trans, etc. but being in an extremely phobic environment they still have an internalized hatred of that part of themselves. It's just awful. And If you're working through anything like that, I'm really sorry. I'm lucky that me and my brother grew up in an environment that mostly lacks explicit homophobia and generally has a lot of support. I'd be happy to listen to that rant when it feels like the right time. Thanks Although, for me it's not like explicit homophobia, it's more like since I'm bi, I can still be in a straight passing relationship, so I have this internal struggle that says it doesn't actually matter that I'm bi. Idk, it's weird 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, Witless of Shinovar said: Thanks Although, for me it's not like explicit homophobia, it's more like since I'm bi, I can still be in a straight passing relationship, so I have this internal struggle that says it doesn't actually matter that I'm bi. Idk, it's weird Yeah, I've heard that there can be some weirdness around that in general. Is it something you've heard from others, or just something you've thought about? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: Yeah, I've heard that there can be some weirdness around that in general. Is it something you've heard from others, or just something you've thought about? Mostly my own thoughts, although when mom found out I was bi, she was really nice about it, but she said something along those lines. It's kind of been in my head ever since. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, Witless of Shinovar said: Mostly my own thoughts, although when mom found out I was bi, she was really nice about it, but she said something along those lines. It's kind of been in my head ever since. So, in what way do you think it doesn't matter? Because your identity is valid, no matter if you could pass it as straight. Do you just feel like you should ignore one side of it because that would be easier? Sorry I don't mean to jump to conclusions about how you feel, I just hope to understand. Unless you don't want to talk about it, that's fine too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: So, in what way do you think it doesn't matter? Because your identity is valid, no matter if you could pass it as straight. Do you just feel like you should ignore one side of it because that would be easier? Sorry I don't mean to jump to conclusions about how you feel, I just hope to understand. Unless you don't want to talk about it, that's fine too. Actually I do kind of feel that way. I don't want to ignore that part of me, it's still...me you know? I think part of the confusion might be coming from the fact that I haven't really had the chance to be in an actual relationship, other than a girl I kind of really like. That brings up the problem though, I have a really annoying, nagging voice in the back of my mind that says that I would basically be getting rid of me being bi if I actually end up in a relationship with her. Spoiler I think I really needed to talk to someone about this to someone, thanks for just being a nice person and listening to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: Thanks Although, for me it's not like explicit homophobia, it's more like since I'm bi, I can still be in a straight passing relationship, so I have this internal struggle that says it doesn't actually matter that I'm bi. Idk, it's weird fellow bi person chiming in here. Yeah, its really weird for me too especially because my religion is not known for being the most welcoming towards the LGBTQIAA+ community. I'm constantly questioning whether or not I'm actually just a straight person trying to be 'different' or if not being straight makes me a terrible person (which obviously it doesn't). That is probably why I relate to Hrathen so much. I have no problem with the God I follow or my religion as a whole, just some of the people who practice it. Sometimes, it just makes me freak out and I feel like a horrible liar. Edited February 23, 2023 by Cinnamon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cinnamon said: fellow bi person chiming in here. Yeah, its really weird for me too especially because my religion is not known for being the most welcoming towards the LGBTQIAA+ community. I'm constantly questioning whether or not I'm actually just a straight person trying to be 'different' or if not being straight makes me a terrible person (which obviously it doesn't). That is probably why I relate to Hrathen so much. I have no problem with the God I follow or my religion as a whole, just some of the people who practice it. Sometimes, it just makes me freak out and I feel like a horrible liar. Yes, yes, yes. I also have the same things going on in my head. I really want to stay a part of my religion, and one of its core principles is to love thine enemies and stuff, but people can be mean. The religion itself is okay with LGBTQ+ people, but a lot of the time, people skew the message and make it hard to feel comfortable in that environment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: Actually I do kind of feel that way. I don't want to ignore that part of me, it's still...me you know? I think part of the confusion might be coming from the fact that I haven't really had the chance to be in an actual relationship, other than a girl I kind of really like. That brings up the problem though, I have a really annoying, nagging voice in the back of my mind that says that I would basically be getting rid of me being bi if I actually end up in a relationship with her. Reveal hidden contents I think I really needed to talk to someone about this to someone, thanks for just being a nice person and listening to me. Okay. Yeah, I've heard stuff similar to this before, I think. You aren't getting rid of your identity if you end up in a relationship with someone. You don't need to justify your identity by constantly being "between" both sides somehow. You are valid as you are and with whatever choice you might make in a partner in the future, and I'm happy for you if you're finding someone who you're interested in! Sorry, that doesn't seem very helpful, but oh well. Spoiler I'm always glad to listen! It's the least I could do. Feel free to talk to me whenever if there's something on your mind. 8 minutes ago, Cinnamon said: fellow bi person chiming in here. Yeah, its really weird for me too especially because my religion is not known for being the most welcoming towards the LGBTQIAA+ community. I'm constantly questioning whether or not I'm actually just a straight person trying to be 'different' or if not being straight makes me a terrible person (which obviously it doesn't). That is probably why I relate to Hrathen so much. I have no problem with the God I follow or my religion as a whole, just some of the people who practice it. I'm sorry that you have that conflict, Cin. That seems like a really hard thing to work through. Yeah, I think Hrathen was a very interesting and well done character, especially in terms of his arc regarding his religion. Edited February 23, 2023 by The Aspiring Archivist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Witless of Shinovar said: Yes, yes, yes. I also have the same things going on in my head. I really want to stay a part of my religion, and one of its core principles is to love thine enemies and stuff, but people can be mean. The religion itself is okay with LGBTQ+ people, but a lot of the time, people skew the message and make it hard to feel comfortable in that environment Exactly! The main thing we are meant to do is love everybody no matter what and know that everyone are sinners and so even if being gay was a sin (which it 100% IS NOT) it shouldn't matter and no one should be treated any differently! 2 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: Okay. Yeah, I've heard stuff similar to this before, I think. You aren't getting rid of your identity if you end up in a relationship with someone. You don't need to justify your identity by constantly being "between" both sides somehow. You are valid as you are and with whatever choice you might make in a partner in the future, and I'm happy for you if you're finding someone who you're interested in! Sorry, that doesn't seem very helpful, but oh well. Reveal hidden contents I'm always glad to listen! It's the least I could do. Feel free to talk to me whenever if there's something on your mind. I'm sorry that you have that conflict, Cin. Yeah, I think Hrathen was a very interesting and well done character, especially in terms of his arc regarding his religion. Thanks :). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Cinnamon said: Exactly! The main thing we are meant to do is love everybody no matter what and know that everyone are sinners and so even if being gay was a sin (which it 100% IS NOT) it shouldn't matter and no one should be treated any differently! Thanks :). I love this so much! I don't really have anything to add to this, but I completely agree with this. 3 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: Okay. Yeah, I've heard stuff similar to this before, I think. You aren't getting rid of your identity if you end up in a relationship with someone. You don't need to justify your identity by constantly being "between" both sides somehow. You are valid as you are and with whatever choice you might make in a partner in the future, and I'm happy for you if you're finding someone who you're interested in! Sorry, that doesn't seem very helpful, but oh well. Reveal hidden contents I'm always glad to listen! It's the least I could do. Feel free to talk to me whenever if there's something on your mind. I'm sorry that you have that conflict, Cin. That seems like a really hard thing to work through. Yeah, I think Hrathen was a very interesting and well done character, especially in terms of his arc regarding his religion. Hrathen is simply the best character in Elantris. looking back on it, my favorite part of it. You totally helped by the way Archie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Cinnamon said: Exactly! The main thing we are meant to do is love everybody no matter what and know that everyone are sinners and so even if being gay was a sin (which it 100% IS NOT) it shouldn't matter and no one should be treated any differently! Thanks :). You are very welcome. Also, I saw a pretty fascinating documentary recently about how the word "homosexual" got into the bible in all those nasty places. It's called "1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture." Very cool. 3 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: I love this so much! I don't really have anything to add to this, but I completely agree with this. Hrathen is simply the best character in Elantris. looking back on it, my favorite part of it. You totally helped by the way Archie Yeah, I think I agree on the Hrathen thing. I'm glad I helped! I probably have the easiest LQBTQ+ identity, so at least I can help people who have a much harder time. *throws glitter* 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: You are very welcome. Also, I saw a pretty fascinating documentary recently about how the word "homosexual" got into the bible in all those nasty places. It's called "1946: The Mistranslation That Shifted Culture." Very cool. Yeah, I think I agree on the Hrathen thing. I'm glad I helped! I probably have the easiest LQBTQ+ identity, so at least I can help people who have a much harder time. *throws glitter* I think I might want to watch this documentary sometimes *Fires conffeti cannon* Edited February 23, 2023 by Witless of Shinovar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: I think I might want to watch this documentary sometimes *Fires conffeti cannon* It's on Netflix, if you want to. The main thing is, the word "homosexual" didn't actually appear in the bible until one translation in 1946. Specifically one word has an exact meaning and connotation that isn't entirely known. Even at the time there were some people pointing out that it was an error to include. It became especially problematic when other editions of the bible did the same, and ESPECIALLY because that the time homosexuality was associated with child predators and was generally viewed in nasty ways. Really interesting stuff. Spoiler *dances in confetti* Edited February 23, 2023 by The Aspiring Archivist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: It's on Netflix, if you want to. The main thing is, the word "homosexual" didn't actually appear in the bible until one translation in 1946. Specifically one word has an exact meaning and connotation that isn't entirely known. Even at the time there were some people pointing out that it was an error to include. It became especially problematic when other editions of the bible did the same, and ESPECIALLY because that the time homosexuality was associated with child predators and was generally viewed in nasty ways. Really interesting stuff. Reveal hidden contents *dances in confetti* That's fascinating. I wonder how different things would be if there hadn't been that translation. With a bit of research, that would make a really cool book Spoiler *summons eldritch confetti being* Edited February 23, 2023 by Witless of Shinovar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: That's fascinating. I wonder how different things would be if there hadn't been that translation. Hide contents *summons eldritch confetti being* For sure. It was a stark reminder for me that when it comes to the bible and it's application in religion, it is important to realize that what you are reading is not the original text. Not every word can or should be taken as a perfect reflection of the intention of the original author or the religion that the text represents. It likely is at the core of a lot of the steadfast hatred towards the LGBTQ+ community from Christians. Much of the time, if you ask one of them why they believe being gay is a sin, the answer is because it's in the bible. These people aren't aware that not only did the word not get translated that way until 1946, but the context of the original word is lost and the context of the word it was translate to has changed. CONTEXT IS KEY. That's how I see it, anyway. Spoiler *screams in terror but also delight* Edited February 23, 2023 by The Aspiring Archivist 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: For sure. It was a stark reminder for me that when it comes to the bible and it's application in religion, it is important to realize that what you are reading is not the original text. Not every word can or should be taken as a perfect reflection of the intention of the original author or the religion that the text represents. It likely is at the core of a lot of the steadfast hatred towards the LGBTQ+ community from Christians. Much of the time, if you ask one of them why they believe being gay is a sin, the answer is because it's in the bible. These people aren't aware that not only did the word not get translated that way until 1946, but the context of the original word is lost and the context of the word it was translate to has changed. CONTEXT IS KEY. That's how I see it, anyway. Reveal hidden contents *screams in terror but also delight* That is some really good insight. I personally have very similar views on things like that. People most likely would have been a lot more accepting towards the community if they didn't have that reference in the bible against us. Although, it was most likely inevitable that someone was going to make their own religion or twist a religion to do something similar. Spoiler *realizes it may have been a mistake to summon an eldritch monster* Dang rep limit Edited February 23, 2023 by Witless of Shinovar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, Witless of Shinovar said: That is some really good insight. I personally have very similar views on things like that. Hide contents *realizes it may have been a mistake to summon an eldritch monster* Cool. It is a very interesting watch, I recommend it. Spoiler *destroys the monster so now there's just a LOT of confetti* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 *Gathers conffeti to create a conffeti based monetary system* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Witless of Shinovar said: *Gathers conffeti to create a conffeti based monetary system* *adds even more confetti, causing inflation* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, The Aspiring Archivist said: *adds even more confetti, causing inflation* *makes a blood pact with the remnants of the confetti creature that helps to make an ill defined confetti magic system* Edited February 23, 2023 by Witless of Shinovar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, Witless of Shinovar said: *makes a blood pact with the remnants of the confetti creature that helps to make an ill defined confetti magic system* *eats confetti in hopes to gain powers* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, The Aspiring Archivist said: *eats confetti in hopes to gain powers* *looks on in shock as Archie becomes a confetti mistborn* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aspiring Archivist Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, Witless of Shinovar said: *looks on in shock as Archie becomes a confetti mistborn* *uses confetti mistborn powers to eat more confetti, faster* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittles Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, The Aspiring Archivist said: *uses confetti mistborn powers to eat more confetti, faster* *constructs fortress of magic confetti* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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