Long Game 66: A Struggle for Power

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

New Count, for Elandera's reference:

Karnage (3) - Elandera, Kidpen, Ventyl
Lahlit (1) - TJ Shade
Ventyl (3) - Experience, Ashbringer, Karnage
Ash (1) - Magestar

[Magestar he/him]

42 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

...to get the boxings?

I mean.  You're not wrong.   Fair point.  I didn't think of that one.

Speaking of boxings... time for some RP.

---

Reginald was rapidly becoming weary of the indecision and divisiveness of those held hostage in the warehouse facility.  He'd been here for what, four? Five days now?  And they'd found one Traitor.  One.

This was becoming absurd.  Reginald was not made to be cooped up for long periods of time.  There was rather a lot of death going around, as well.  Reginald rubbed his temples.  It was enough to make a man go mad.  Not to mention that that other fellow - Araris, Aralis or something - had apparently been a Faceless Immortal!  You weren't supposed to be able to kill those.  So was one still lurking around now?

It was really too much.  Reginald had given up interacting with the people here days ago.  Rust and Ruin, they were all suspicious.  Every one of them acted guilty of something!  Reginald now spent most of his time either in the kitchen or in the main room, which was always full of people.  He couldn’t be alone with anyone here.  Too dangerous.  He no longer trusted himself to sleep.  Too dangerous.  If he got out of here alive, he’d never join an organization like this again.  Reginald shuddered.  Too dangerous.

So, Reginald rested, awake, reserving his strength.  He was sure he would need it soon.  He would bet on it.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Huh. Well, I've raised enough defenses of my actions before, so I don't want to end up parroting myself, but I don't honestly have anything new to really share about what I've done. I realize that my main suspicion has been disproven by Emi, but I think it's reasonable that I thought I was right in this case since it took Emi so long to say she didn't have an action.

I'm beginning to think that Karnage isn't as likely to be Elim as I've previously thought. It kinda seems like last turn's Drake lynch: there are plenty of people suspicious of him, but all their reasons for their suspicions are different. I'm still suspicious, but not for the same reasons that people tend to be saying. I'm still more suspicious of Ventyl, with his defense being a little unusual and Emi taking a while to clarify (maybe). So my vote stays, because I don't really have any other leads.

It may be better to see how it all plays out at night, and see what happens with both me and Ventyl alive, but I have no idea. If one of us is an Elim, killing the other starts creating a whole lot of suspicion. 

(If this post is kinda rambley, I was trying to hit my 200 words without much actual content.)

Edit: Flame on? Again? Really?

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ashbringer

[Magestar he/him]

53 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I went back to see if I'd missed something, and found Drake's post where he was hesitant to lynch Karnage because of another game. To counter your point of Xino's reasoning, though, he quoted a previous post of his when Pyro prompted him. So his reasoning was already in the thread, but not as clear until after the prompting.

I'm still suspicious of Karnage, but I would be willing to lynch Ash if we can get more support. Considering the current layout of votes, I'm leaving my vote on Karnage for now. I really don't agree with the Ventyl lynch, and switching my vote now would put them in the lead. (Yes, I'm aware there's time, but I'm being overly cautious at the moment.)

That's fair, I suppose.  I still think that if they'd really needed him to, the Elims could have come up with a way to get him to move his vote.  I don't think his reasoning was so solid that his vote was stuck.  If he'd wanted to move it, as you suggested earlier, the Elims could easily have presented some sort of small counter argument, and Xino could have switched.

I do understand leaving your vote on Karnage for now.  It's can be kinda dangerous to leave a lynch you're in favor of... the only real issue with this is that if everyone has this attitude, the only people who can vote for a new lynch are people who haven't voted yet, which considering how many inactive/partial actives we have, significantly lowers the pool of people who can start new lynches.  Just makes it a little difficult to do anything beyond what's already being done.

44 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Huh. Well, I've raised enough defenses of my actions before, so I don't want to end up parroting myself, but I don't honestly have anything new to really share about what I've done. I realize that my main suspicion has been disproven by Emi, but I think it's reasonable that I thought I was right in this case since it took Emi so long to say she didn't have an action.

I'm beginning to think that Karnage isn't as likely to be Elim as I've previously thought. It kinda seems like last turn's Drake lynch: there are plenty of people suspicious of him, but all their reasons for their suspicions are different. I'm still suspicious, but not for the same reasons that people tend to be saying. I'm still more suspicious of Ventyl, with his defense being a little unusual and Emi taking a while to clarify (maybe). So my vote stays, because I don't really have any other leads.

Fair enough.  I mean, no need to repeat yourself.   

Sweet.  That means I did my job.    Ventyl, I'm unsure of.  I wouldn't particularly care if either Ventyl or Karnage got lynched, I just want people to think a little more about why.  I don't have strong enough suspicions to push one lynch really hard, so I'd like to get people thinking and posting about the lynches there are.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Ventyl's still my main/only suspect, but I'd be down to move to an Experience lynch if more people move that direction. Knowing if she's Elim or Village (or Kandra?) will help determine if all the (literal) last-minute voting D2 was trying to save an Elim or just another weirditiy. And she's been kinda quiet through the whole Me vs Ventyl failed showdown. @Experience, any thoughts on all of this?

Actually, that reminds me of something: @StrikerEZ, if an Elim became the Kandra, then died, would we know that the Kandra had been an Elim!Kandra? Would a Villager be known as a Village!Kandra? Or would all we know is that they were a Kandra, with no way of knowing their prior alignment? That could make things difficult to gain info from past actions. Although the Elims would know that one of their former member was killed.

Don't have anything to say or time to think of it for my 200 words, so I'll leave it here. May edit or post again when I have time/brain capacity. Or I suppose I could keep rambling along this train of thought until I hit a quantity of words within a sequence that equals 200.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

I'd be down with bagging some XP.

[Magestar he/him]

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

Ventyl's still my main/only suspect, but I'd be down to move to an Experience lynch if more people move that direction. Knowing if she's Elim or Village (or Kandra?) will help determine if all the (literal) last-minute voting D2 was trying to save an Elim or just another weirditiy. And she's been kinda quiet through the whole Me vs Ventyl failed showdown. @Experience, any thoughts on all of this?

Actually, that reminds me of something: @StrikerEZ, if an Elim became the Kandra, then died, would we know that the Kandra had been an Elim!Kandra? Would a Villager be known as a Village!Kandra? Or would all we know is that they were a Kandra, with no way of knowing their prior alignment? That could make things difficult to gain info from past actions. Although the Elims would know that one of their former member was killed.

Don't have anything to say or time to think of it for my 200 words, so I'll leave it here. May edit or post again when I have time/brain capacity. Or I suppose I could keep rambling along this train of thought until I hit a quantity of words within a sequence that equals 200.

Jeez, Ash, save some Boxings for the rest of us.    You must be rich by now.

Well, since a few people seem to be at least vaguely interested in lynching Experience, I'll go ahead and drop a vote.  Experience.  That should get it started, at any rate.  

Experience has already been pinged a number of times now, so I don't think my pinging them as well will do very much.  I do hope that they get on before the end of the cycle.

Karnage (3) - Elandera, Kidpen, Ventyl
Lahlit (1) - TJ Shade
Ventyl (3) - Experience, Ashbringer, Karnage
Experience (1) - Magestar

I believe that should be the vote count now.  I think we've got a couple good options here, and it will look even better if we can get a few people to vote on Experience.  @TJ Shade, it doesn't really look like the Lahilt lynch is going to go off.  Any interest in putting your vote somewhere else?

And I might as well ping a few of the people to try and get some end of cycle discussion going.  @Kynedath, @Mist, @Matrim's_Dice, @Elkanah, any thoughts you'd like to share or votes you'd like to place?

That's all I've got for now.  I'll try and be back on before the end of the cycle to see how things are looking.

[Lahilt he/him]

I will vote on ventyl for previous suspicion and the lack of a good explanation.

[Elandera she/her]

I know this may seem odd coming from me, but what's the reason for wanting to lynch Experience? I know I was suspicious of them for gut read reasons, but I haven't seen any more evidence for that vote than a Karnage vote. Ash's reasons seem to be the same as my reasons for my Karnage vote, but for D2 instead of D1 shenanigans. Besides, I wanted to actually substantiate my suspicions before voting on Experience, considering I was in a bit of a tunnel there.

[Ashbringer he/him]

I mean, I seem to “need” a lot more Boxings than I “have” . Experience it is then. I can save my investigation of Ventyl for later.

Edit: AHHH DOUBLE NINJA give me a sec.

The lynch on XP is I think similar to the lynch on Karnage, except there’s a lot more people that we can get info from from XP, since two of the main pushers for Karnage/Hatz were Coda and Drake, who were Village.

Final edit: if lynching XP goes nowhere I probably will move back to Ventyl, but for now I think XP is the better choice

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ashbringer

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

10 minutes ago, Lahilt said:

I will vote on ventyl for previous suspicion and the lack of a good explanation.

The explanation was that Emi wasn't roleblocked because they never took an action.

[Magestar he/him]

8 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I know this may seem odd coming from me, but what's the reason for wanting to lynch Experience? I know I was suspicious of them for gut read reasons, but I haven't seen any more evidence for that vote than a Karnage vote. Ash's reasons seem to be the same as my reasons for my Karnage vote, but for D2 instead of D1 shenanigans. Besides, I wanted to actually substantiate my suspicions before voting on Experience, considering I was in a bit of a tunnel there.

I admit to personally not being much more suspicious of Experience than I am of Karnage, which is to say, not terribly.  I don't really see either of them as super suspicious.

The problem is, I don't see Ventyl as super suspicious either, and I can't seem to get anyone else to consider voting for any of the people I find suspicious.  So, I'm taking a page out of Drake's book, and trying to create some more tension in the lynch, to see what turns up.  It is, in the very least, interesting.  The more options we have, the higher probability that something interesting happens, at least in my mind.

I'm also beginning to understand why Araris didn't explain all of his reads all the time.  There's a very delicate line between saying just enough that the Elims react to what you're saying, and saying too much, so they know what you're up to, and don't react.  I'm learning rather a lot this game.  I think I'll have to write something up about it in the aftermath.

Basically, I don't have much reason besides "Experience is as good a lynch as any of the others you guys are trying to lynch."  Other people may have their own reasons for voting for Exp, but mine are basically just information from the lynch later and lynch tension now.

Anyway, one more vote on Exp, and we'll have a three way tie.  Nice.

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Magestar said:

I'm also beginning to understand why Araris didn't explain all of his reads all the time.  There's a very delicate line between saying just enough that the Elims react to what you're saying, and saying too much, so they know what you're up to, and don't react.

Truth!

In all honestly the prospect of my first LG and the Ash/Ventyl confusion is whooshing over my head. First Vently proposes in a PM to out Ash, right, but then Ash exposes something about Ventyl and it spirals down into utter chaos and I don't even know anymore  

Out of the two I'd say Ash is more suspicious to me. Can't for the life of me say why. Very subject to change in the next 2 hours.

[Kidpen he/him]

I'm vibing with ash so no.

On the other hand, where did the XP lynch come from? That seems moderately unsavory to me.

[Magestar he/him]

Just now, Kidpen said:

I'm vibing with ash so no.

On the other hand, where did the XP lynch come from? That seems moderately unsavory to me.

I'd like to think it came from me.

And I wanted it, in a nutshell, because all the other lynches are equally bad.

[Lahilt he/him]

27 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

The explanation was that Emi wasn't roleblocked because they never took an action.

I was PM by Ventyl asking to remove my vote from XP last cycle. I have received no sufficent answer for their behavior.

[Mist she/her]

Thanks for pinging me. 

Karnage said he would be busy. Catch elims in lies. Wanted to lynch Araris. He changed to Hatz at the last second. He said he stored last round. He voted on Emi. He said it was because of her excuse for voting. He hasn't seen many elim looking things so far. He voted on Ventyl this cycle.

Ventyl may have lied about the action he would submit. Emi did not receive a PM that she was RBed, after he claimed he would RB her. I believe this is the main reason for suspicion of him. However, Emi did not submit an action.

Why are we lynching XP?

I may be able to vote, but probably not.

[Kidpen he/him]

6 minutes ago, Magestar said:

I'd like to think it came from me.

And I wanted it, in a nutshell, because all the other lynches are equally bad.

Oh just saw your post above. Ok. That seems like a reasonable and villagery reason to vote on XP.

40 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I mean, I seem to “need” a lot more Boxings than I “have” . Experience it is then. I can save my investigation of Ventyl for later.

Edit: AHHH DOUBLE NINJA give me a sec.

The lynch on XP is I think similar to the lynch on Karnage, except there’s a lot more people that we can get info from from XP, since two of the main pushers for Karnage/Hatz were Coda and Drake, who were Village.

Final edit: if lynching XP goes nowhere I probably will move back to Ventyl, but for now I think XP is the better choice

This, however, seems a bit off. I shall investigate more to determine the Vibes.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Karnage (3) - Elandera, Kidpen, Ventyl
Lahlit (1) - TJ Shade
Ventyl (3) - Experience, Karnage, Lahilt
Experience (2) - Magestar, Ashbringer

This seems accurate.

[Magestar he/him]

41 minutes ago, Lahilt said:

I was PM by Ventyl asking to remove my vote from XP last cycle. I have received no sufficent answer for their behavior.

As far as I'm concerned, this makes XP just as good a lynch as Ventyl.  If Ventyl is an Elim trying to save fellow Elim XP, lynching either of them will help us get information on the other.  I personally think that XP would give us slightly more information in general than Ventyl would, but I would still rather Ventyl get lynched than Karnage.  Karnage is still a bit of an odd lynch to me.  I think I've covered why before.  If it comes down to it, I'll probably vote on Ventyl at the end of the cycle if the XP lynch doesn't take off.

41 minutes ago, Mist said:

Thanks for pinging me. 

Karnage said he would be busy. Catch elims in lies. Wanted to lynch Araris. He changed to Hatz at the last second. He said he stored last round. He voted on Emi. He said it was because of her excuse for voting. He hasn't seen many elim looking things so far. He voted on Ventyl this cycle.

Ventyl may have lied about the action he would submit. Emi did not receive a PM that she was RBed, after he claimed he would RB her. I believe this is the main reason for suspicion of him. However, Emi did not submit an action.

Why are we lynching XP?

I may be able to vote, but probably not.

No problem!  Thanks for posting. 

There's a couple of explanations as to why we're lynching XP.  I feel like they've already been gone over in the thread a couple times now, and I don't really feel like repeating them.  They're fairly recent, so you can probably find them pretty easily.

Why would you be unable to vote?

40 minutes ago, Kidpen said:

Oh just saw your post above. Ok. That seems like a reasonable and villagery reason to vote on XP.

Thanks lol.  I do attempt to be both reasonable and villagery.  The confirmation is appreciated.   

6 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Karnage (3) - Elandera, Kidpen, Ventyl
Lahlit (1) - TJ Shade
Ventyl (3) - Experience, Karnage, Lahilt
Experience (2) - Magestar, Ashbringer

This seems accurate.

That looks right to me.  You going to vote, Pyro?  I wouldn't mind having another vote on Exp before the end of the cycle.  

[Elandera she/her]

7 minutes ago, Magestar said:

As far as I'm concerned, this makes XP just as good a lynch as Ventyl.  If Ventyl is an Elim trying to save fellow Elim XP, lynching either of them will help us get information on the other.  I personally think that XP would give us slightly more information in general than Ventyl would, but I would still rather Ventyl get lynched than Karnage.  Karnage is still a bit of an odd lynch to me.  I think I've covered why before.  If it comes down to it, I'll probably vote on Ventyl at the end of the cycle if the XP lynch doesn't take off.

That's reasoning I can get behind. Lets make this interesting. Karnage Experience.

Edit:

Karnage (2) - Kidpen, Ventyl
Lahlit (1) - TJ Shade
Ventyl (3) - Experience, Karnage, Lahilt
Experience (3) - Magestar, Ashbringer, Elandera
Ashbringer (1) - Matrim

Edited June 12, 2020 by Elandera

[Ashbringer he/him]

I think Matrim has a vote on me.

[Elandera she/her]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

I think Matrim has a vote on me.

That's been fixed.

[Mist she/her]

Experience

Timing wise, I wasn't sure if I could get on before rollover. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

10 minutes ago, Elandera said:

That's been fixed.

?

Not as I can see...

Probably this will be my last post before rollover as well.