Nellac Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 So I've been thinking for a while and this makes a lot of sense. Now more so then being parts of his power, they are parts of either his personality, or his view of an ideal person. Now the reason I say this is because each order's ideals can be boiled down to a simple word. I believe that Honor was trying to split all the good/necessary attributes between a group as no one but a God could become perfect in all of them. Here are the words I think for each order. Note: Orders with a * by them are mainly guesses. 1. Bondsmith: Leadership 2. Windrunner: Protective nature 3. Skybreaker: Justice 4. Dustbringer: Righteous indignation*** 5. Edgedancer: Empathy/Compassion 6. Truthwatcher: Forethought/Planning*** 7. Lightweaver: Self Awareness 8. Elsecaller: Logic*** 9. Willshapers: Curiosity*** 10. Stoneward: Selflessness/Sacrifice*** Now I know the radiants weren't founded by Honor, but they were but the Heralds. Each order was created their ideals to exemplify their herald. Each of these Heralds was have picked, to the best of our knowledge, by Honor himself. I believe he wanted to create a group with all the attributes he considered necessary for a great person. It is easier for a person to pick a single ideal to try and perfect, then to try and perfect then all. This spreading of the ideals created some contention within the ranks of the radiants, but in the end it helped create a group that was as close as Honor could get to his own beliefs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 I like this theory a lot. I would make some modest changes especially to the more Culticationy ones. Perhaps he let her make some modest alterations for some reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) The Radiant Orders seem to exemplify certain interpretations of honor I'd put leadership with Windrunners though Edited February 25, 2020 by Dreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 I like to believe that a 5th order radiant with no restrictions to their power would be a mini shareholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Quote Questioner So we know some Orders are of-- Radiant are of Honor and Cultivation, right? So Jasnah is more logical and is definitely kind of, you know, set in stone about her ways. But Shallan, she's got a lot of personal growth and I know-- So I'm wondering is Shallan like one of the Orders that is of Cultivation? Brandon Sanderson In their-- They would theorize that's more Cultivation than Honor. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018) The Radiants are of Cultivation as well as Honor, so I like to think of them as 5 Honor Orders (the upper 5) and 5 Cultivation Orders (the lower 5). I even like to think of each Order representing a fifth of the respective Shard, but that's admittedly a rabbit hole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nellac Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Dreamer said: The Radiant Orders seem to exemplify certain interpretations of honor I'd put leadership with Windrunners though That makes a lot of sense. If you put leadership with windrunners what would you use for bondsmiths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nellac said: That makes a lot of sense. If you put leadership with windrunners what would you use for bondsmiths? Their primary attribute guiding, probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 In my opinion, the primary Divine Attributes make more sense as a reflection of what the respective Order represents. There seems to be a pattern like this: first attribute/what a person has to be to attract a respective radiantspren --> second attribute/what a person has to become along the way to the fifth ideal. Shallan for example has been extraordinarily "creative" from the get-go (the Lightweaver's first attribute), but she - despite being among the furthest along her Radiant path - is still very far from being "honest" (the second attribute). Given that only few Radiants seem to ever reach the fifth ideal, most of the Knights would presumably never be able to properly represent the second attribute - only the very best among them, as shows with the Skybreakers (all of them are "lawful" in one way or another, but only Nale is "confident"). So to me, the second attribute seems like an ideal of what the people that are naturally geared towards the first attribute would have to strive for in order to maintain a balance. Again, the Lightweavers are a good example for this: Being creative is the thing that enables them to eventually use the Surge of Illumination, but with such an ability, it's easy to lose sight of reality (which is happening to Shallan), so that's why there are the truths - you could say, to direct them to a path that allows them to grow. I would phrase it like this: The first attribute is their nature, and the second attribute is their duty. So when it comes down to choosing which of them better represents, well, the "nature" of an Order, rather than what they are eventually shaped to do, it's going to be the first one. That's how it makes sense to me, at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsecaller_17.5 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 This is a side note but elsecallers have always felt more honor than cultivation to me. What are the arguments for them fitting C? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said: This is a side note but elsecallers have always felt more honor than cultivation to me. What are the arguments for them fitting C? Maybe this could be its own thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said: This is a side note but elsecallers have always felt more honor than cultivation to me. What are the arguments for them fitting C? I could see an argument being made in both directions. Honor is all about oaths, bonds, and keeping to them which would appeal to the wise and careful aspect of the elsecallers. Cultivation is all about guided growth, which I think would also appeal to the wise and careful aspect of the elsecallers. I would lean a bit more towards cultivation though because the elsecallers are not as rigid into the letter of things as the skybreakers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegy Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said: This is a side note but elsecallers have always felt more honor than cultivation to me. What are the arguments for them fitting C? The first divine attribute is wisdom, and to me it seems like Honor isn't necessarily very interested in wisdom (just in being honorable), while things like the thriving for knowledge seem to be Cultivation's thing. That's also because the one Elsecaller we know, Jasnah, has very many personality traits that I would see as more typical for Cultivation - after all, she's a scholar -, while she is very far from a traditionalist (in contrast to Dalinar for example), which would be more of a typical Honor trait. Of course, one person isn't much to go by and it doesn't have to overlap, but then again, personality traits obviously influence whether a spren takes interest in a person, so it's definitely worth something. That said, the questioner in the WOB I quoted above had the same opinion as you. There doesn't seem to be a consensus. But it fits better than the others in my opinion. Would you take the Willshapers as a fifth Cultivation Order instead? Edited February 25, 2020 by Elegy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuatoma Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Robot said: I like to believe that a 5th order radiant with no restrictions to their power would be a mini shareholder. Do you mean a minority shareholder? I guess 5th order radiants might be rich, but not necessarily. Needless to say, I would like to buy some stock in Honor as well. I wonder what the stock price is (probably not as high after he crashed, but rising now that the powers are returning)? I apologize for my nonsensical post. Please feel free to ignore me and carry on with the discussion. Edited February 25, 2020 by Nuatoma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Nuatoma said: Do you mean a minority shareholder? I guess 5th order radiants might be rich, but not necessarily. Needless to say, I would like to buy some stock in Honor as well. I wonder what the stock price is (probably not as high after he crashed, but rising now that the powers are returning)? I apologize for my nonsensical post. Please feel free to ignore me and carry on with the discussion. They share Honor's power and thus they are able to influence the cluster of investiture they are most connected with. Thus each radiant is a potential shareholder for the Honor limited society and their actions, like municipal or corporate bond-manipulation and breaking can have big consecuences for the big company. For example, if a big part of the shareholders suddenly broke their bonds the big company might be in very real danger, especially if it's already got competition. Such an event might lead a big company like Honor to die over a period of time. Source: I just made it up 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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