rammbleings of a deranged mind Cultivations influence RoW Update![Disscuss]

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

Sorry.  I did not see this page before and no one I see mentioned it.

 

On 2/8/2020 at 3:06 PM, RShara said:

 

 

[Karger]

Oops.

[Frustration]

Just now, Karger said:

Oops.

All good, critic is welcome keeps me from going to far.

[Aeshdan]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:06 PM, RShara said:

Zeamay

Are Lirin and Hesina Kaladin's biological parents?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 10, 2015)

 

On 12/5/2020 at 2:06 AM, Suffot said:

 

I guess the big trouble here would be that Honor died like 1000 years before Kaladin was born. I could buy into shards temporarily taking a human vessel to make offspring, but the dude was dead. 
 

Edit: Without being crass, I suppose Cultivation could have held on to that seed until it was time to plant it...

 

On 12/4/2020 at 11:11 PM, Darth_Hel said:

Kaladin could be the descendant of their child. Perhaps all descendants of Tanavast are drawn toward strict codes like Kaladin and Lirin.

The third quote would make sense of the first two. If Tanavast and Koravellium had mortal children before the former's death, then perhaps Kaladin is descended from those children.

[Frustration]

Just now, ReaderAt2046 said:

 

 

The third quote would make sense of the first two. If Tanavast and Koravellium had mortal children before the former's death, then perhaps Kaladin is descended from those children.

only problem is that with two thoushand years just about everyone should be a child of Tanavast, but it's just Kaladin

[Morningtide]

In Mistborn, the LR uses Preservation's power in the Well without ascending. Is it possible that Kaladin once used Honor's power in the same way? I was thinking, and Kaladin is the only modern Radiant to bond one of the Stormfather's original Honorspren. Syl's status and/or age might have something to do with this. It does seem that Kaladin is gaining powers from Syl that other Windrunners are not. (e.g. prowess with weapons, parting the storm, etc.)

[mathiau]

On 13/04/2021 at 9:36 PM, Morningtide said:

In Mistborn, the LR uses Preservation's power in the Well without ascending. Is it possible that Kaladin once used Honor's power in the same way? I was thinking, and Kaladin is the only modern Radiant to bond one of the Stormfather's original Honorspren. Syl's status and/or age might have something to do with this. It does seem that Kaladin is gaining powers from Syl that other Windrunners are not. (e.g. prowess with weapons, parting the storm, etc.)

TLR ascended and became a Sliver of Preservation.

[Serack]

You've put a lot of effort into this and make a lot of great points.

My major concern about the Kaladin thread is more Doyalist, in that it cuts too close to the chosen one trope, and Brandon has put so much effort into subverting such overworn tropes in SA.  If you were spot on, I would think that there would also have to be a proportionate twist that cancels out the vast tropishness of Kaladin being the only begotten son of the planet's 2 pre Odium gods.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Quote

AlwaysTheNextOne

Does Kaladin have a mixed heritage. Like maybe Yolish and Rosharan?

Brandon Sanderson

One thing I wanted to be very careful about in writing the Stormlight books is to stray away from people needing some kind of past or heritage to be special—it's okay for this to be for some characters, but it becomes a crutch. So your answer is no, he doesn't have much secret to his heritage. (Though his mother grew up wealthy for a darkeyes, and that's a little odd.)

General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 16, 2020)

[Frustration]

I think I have a way to make the evidence work together, 

What if Kal is an Avatar of Honor?

[mathiau]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

I think I have a way to make the evidence work together, 

What if Kal is an Avatar of Honor?

Depends what you mean by avatar. The only uses of "avatar of a Shard" I remember was about the Bavatars

[Bejarden]

Also Odiums Avatat which he confirms is a possible thing to exist.

[mathiau]

1 minute ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Also Odiums Avatat which he confirms is a possible thing to exist.

I don't understand what you're talking about

[Bejarden]

You said you only know about Bavadins Avatar.

I said Odium can have one too 

Sorry if I misunderstood 

[Frustration]

40 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Depends what you mean by avatar. The only uses of "avatar of a Shard" I remember was about the Bavatars

Avatar's are possible for all shards,

and intrestingly have only been mentioned in Stormlight.

Autonomy in WoK epigraphs

Odium in RoW

Taidakar's "avatar"

[mathiau]

Just now, Frustration said:

Avatar's are possible for all shards,

and intrestingly have only been mentioned in Stormlight.

Autonomy in WoK epigraphs

Odium in RoW

Taidakar's "avatar"

I don't remember the two lasts, when were them?

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I don't remember the two lasts, when were them?

Odium told Moash that he wasn't his Avatar,

and Thaidakar doesn't have one but he tells the Ghostbloods he does.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 hours ago, Frustration said:

and Thaidakar doesn't have one but he tells the Ghostbloods he does.

For anyone who hasn't seen the WoB on this, definitely worth a read lol.

[Frustration]

On Kal potentially being an Avatar

Autonomy is not the only shard to use them

Spoiler

The Dusty Wheel

Do any other Shards utilize avatars the way Autonomy does?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh... they have in the past, I can't say for sure if they are doing so now or not.

The Dusty Wheel Interview (April 1, 2020)

 

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Any Shard can make aspects [avatars].

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

 

Also The avatar will not always know.

Spoiler

Questioner

So Bavadin's avatars, right; Autonomy's avatars.

Brandon Sanderson

One of Bavadin's avatars. 

Questioner

Of those avatars, are some or all of them actual Splinters of Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson

The terminology gets kind of sticky here. In Cosmere terms, some would say that counts as Splinters, some would say not. The avatars aren't necessarily aware but Bavadin always is. A lot of people in Cosmere would call that a Splinter. 

Questioner

My follow up to that would be, is it possible for a person to Ascend and become a Vessel of one of those Splinters?  

Brandon Sanderson

That is plausible. Yes. It could happen. It would be tough because they will have personalities of their own and so something would need to happen... but yeah.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Frustration

[mathiau]

On 23/04/2021 at 10:49 PM, Frustration said:

Odium told Moash that he wasn't his Avatar,

and Thaidakar doesn't have one but he tells the Ghostbloods he does.

For some reason I had understood Tanavast in your previous post and was very confused. Thaidakar is definitely using the word avatar differently than Odium or

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

On Kal potentially being an Avatar

Autonomy is not the only shard to use them

  Reveal hidden contents

The Dusty Wheel

Do any other Shards utilize avatars the way Autonomy does?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh... they have in the past, I can't say for sure if they are doing so now or not.

The Dusty Wheel Interview (April 1, 2020)

 

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Any Shard can make aspects [avatars].

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

 

"I can't say for sure if they are doing so now or not."

In 2020

This is proof Kal is (currently) not an Avatar of anyone, at least not in the same sense as Bavadin's avatars

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

For some reason I had understood Tanavast in your previous post and was very confused. Thaidakar is definitely using the word avatar differently than Odium or

"I can't say for sure if they are doing so now or not."

In 2020

This is proof Kal is (currently) not an Avatar of anyone, at least not in the same sense as Bavadin's avatars

Can't say for sure is the same thing as RAFO.

[mathiau]

22 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Can't say for sure is the same thing as RAFO.

That would be a very unnatural way of saying. If it was from the general reddit instead of an interview maybe I'd accept the possibility of Brandon having said RAFO in a very weird way but this is from an interview, it either means "I didn't define it yet" or "I would need to check my note"

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, mathiau said:

That would be a very unnatural way of saying. If it was from the general reddit instead of an interview maybe I'd accept the possibility of Brandon having said RAFO in a very weird way but this is from an interview, it either means "I didn't define it yet" or "I would need to check my note"

I see where you're coming from but I have to disagree

[ZHRPhoenix]

If I'm not mistaken it has been canonized that over time a shards power can create a vessel from scratch so is it possible that since only most of Honor's power got transferred to the storm father that there is a lesser portion of that power splintered off and seeking a host which Kaladin seems to be the perfect fit for. This could also perhaps explain shades on threnody if in only splintering a shard it is not preventing it from taking a new vessel whereas on Sel the power was more so ripped out of the spiritual realm altogether making it perhaps unable to gain hosts. Excuse my poor phrasing and lack of exact WoB but my theory essentially boils down to, the power is splintered essentially creating sub shards, the largest being the storm father and other smaller portions seeking out hosts such as Kaladin or in the case of threnody perhaps each shade is very small pieces of the shards remaining power latching on to cognitive shadows and creating hundreds of mini shards. Essentially I think Honor won't reform as a whole shard but rather as lesser shards, if Adonalsium can be splintered into 16 shards I see no reason they can't become even smaller fragments just like recombining the fragments seems to be possible with Harmony. If this is the case it could also be possible that Dalinar is becoming one of these splinters/sub shards either through bonding the storm father or just by embodying the ideals of Honor making him a suitable host. The number 10 is very important to Roshar so completely unbiased but the possibility that Honor got splintered into 10 pieces that are seeking out a hostfrom each order embodying different aspects of Honor. As we have seen though, destroying shards is tricky business so it makes sense to me that Odium would settle for simply shattering the other shards into smaller pieces only fearing the 15 full shards of Adonalsium but rather than recreating the deaths of Devotion and Dominion again finds it much easier to just split the power and let it take smaller forms. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and this has been disproven but think it might be worth looking into further although I am new to the scholarly side of the Cosmere only just now catching up. 

TL;DR Perhaps Odium realizes he can't truly destroy the power of the 15 other shards but is instead trying to splinter it into pieces that cannot oppose him such as shades on threnody that may be less than .1% of Ambitions shard each whereas Cultivation may have helped Honor at least not shatter into such tiny pieces perhaps instead 10 so that she could cultivate 10 new vessels to take the power and by unifying them they could overcome Odium. After all, Harmony has proven that the more power one vessel holds the harder it is to act so perhaps she saw Honor dying and being split into 10 smaller weaker shards as an advantage since they could theoretically do much much more than Odium as a single intent shard.

(Sorry even my TL;DR was long I'll blame it on me being extremely sick and half out of it, I will try to revisit and revise this when I am more coherent.

[Circumlocutions]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:43 PM, ZHRPhoenix said:

a lesser portion of that power splintered off and seeking a host which Kaladin seems to be the perfect fit for ... the power is splintered essentially creating sub shards, the largest being the storm father and other smaller portions seeking out hosts such as Kaladin or in the case of threnody perhaps each shade is very small pieces of the shards remaining power latching on to cognitive shadows and creating hundreds of mini shards

I like the idea of mini shards.  I think it also ties into the theory of him being a new herald.  The first heralds kind of bombed it, with their sort of breaking their oath by leaving Taln and betraying what honor stands for. So maybe honor prepared specific people ahead to be new heralds, cause he knew the first ones would be no use in restraining Odium.  As such Kaladin, and Syl are granted with greater power, even becoming a minishard, in an attempt to make future heralds more successful. Maybe this greater power granted to Kaladin makes him have a more intimate relationship with Tanavast even the name Son of Tanavast.  

The only problem with any of this is that if the stormfather knew any of this, why did he resist Kaladin and Syl bonding so much?  If Kaladin was truly prepared by honor or even his literal son or an avatar wouldn't he want Syl to bond him?