Does Odium know Hoid is on Roshar?

[Chalke219]

I'm surprised that there has been no mention from Odium about Hoid being on Roshar as we know there is a pre-shattering relationship there 

 

Endowment seemed to know from the letters that he was on planet but Harmony seemed unable to detect him 

 

This has had me thinking about what Brandon said about the big scene in book 4 that he's envisioned from the start and i think this could be our first direct interaction between Hoid and a shard since its gotta be coming up and seems like the thing Brandon would cultivate over a long period 

 

Thoughts? 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Chalke219

[Quantus he/him]

We have been told that Hoid has ways of hiding his presence from the Shards despite many of them wanting less than nice things for him.  That being said, he's taken a bit more central role on Roshar being the Kings Wit, giving the Radiants drawings of the Heralds, etc. and we know that Odium has his Uber-Diagram of the on-going events, so I have to think Rayse is at least aware of his meddling, even if he perhaps cant pin him down at any given moment.  

[Karger he/him]

Unclear.  Odium does not like Hoid and is willing to level a city for just a small chance of finally killing him.  Hoid has also been subtle in his actions kind of and presumably he knows how to avoid shardic detection. 

[Aon Tia she/her]

3 hours ago, Chalke219 said:

I'm surprised that there has been no mention from Odium about Hoid being on Roshar as we know there is a pre-shattering relationship there 

 

Endowment seemed to know from the letters that he was on planet but Harmony seemed unable to detect him 

 

This has had me thinking about what Brandon said about the big scene in book 4 that he's envisioned from the start and i think this could be our first direct interaction between Hoid and a shard since its gotta be coming up and seems like the thing Brandon would cultivate over a long period 

 

Thoughts? 

I don’t really think odium knows. It is unclear but it does not appear that odium is looking for him. 
Besides we know that Hoid can definitely go undetected if he wants. Which makes me wonder if Hoid had wanted endowment to know about his appearance for some reason.

[Karger he/him]

10 minutes ago, The Traveller said:

Besides we know that Hoid can definitely go undetected if he wants. Which makes me wonder if Hoid had wanted endowment to know about his appearance for some reason.

Or maybe that he just cared less or maybe that it is harder to hide on Nalthis because only one shard resides there.

[Chalke219]

22 minutes ago, Karger said:

Or maybe that he just cared less or maybe that it is harder to hide on Nalthis because only one shard resides there.

Could it be invesiture based? He would have used awakening on Nalthis but wouldn't have used any of Odiums investiture and likely wouldn't have used any of autonomys either 

 

Either way I cannot wait for an actual conversation between Hoid and Rayse - I think we're heading that way but then

Spoiler

now Hoid has bonded a spren, he could look to just move on (like after he acquired allomancy

) 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Chalke219

[Weltall]

19 minutes ago, Karger said:

Or maybe that he just cared less or maybe that it is harder to hide on Nalthis because only one shard resides there.

Another factor that could be in play is that it's harder for Odium to find Hoid on Roshar for the same reason that he can't smite someone but Endowment can: Location, location, location. In other words, because he's 'on' Braize rather than Roshar, it might he harder for him to see Hoid.

[Honorless he/him]

Hoid said that he was specifically trying to hide from an old friend. I would say that no, so far at least, Odium doesn't know that Hoid is on Roshar. But he definitely will come to know eventually as Hoid becomes more active in the conflict. Wasn't Brandon looking forward to writing the next Hoid epilogue?

[Chalke219]

2 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Another factor that could be in play is that it's harder for Odium to find Hoid on Roshar for the same reason that he can't smite someone but Endowment can: Location, location, location. In other words, because he's 'on' Braize rather than Roshar, it might he harder for him to see Hoid.

This makes a lot of sense! I always for get Roshar is a system and not just a planet! 

[Aon Tia she/her]

18 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Another factor that could be in play is that it's harder for Odium to find Hoid on Roshar for the same reason that he can't smite someone but Endowment can: Location, location, location. In other words, because he's 'on' Braize rather than Roshar, it might he harder for him to see Hoid.

That does make sense. We already suspect that odium does not see and sense everything that happens on Roshar. He depends on his fused and unmade and other spy network to collect info. 
I mean if he does not even know which order does Shallan belong to then he probably can not learn about Hoid either. 
It is possible that he can directly influence o. Roshar only during Everstorms

[+Quazzi he/him]

1 hour ago, The Traveller said:

That does make sense. We already suspect that odium does not see and sense everything that happens on Roshar. He depends on his fused and unmade and other spy network to collect info. 
I mean if he does not even know which order does Shallan belong to then he probably can not learn about Hoid either. 
It is possible that he can directly influence o. Roshar only during Everstorms

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines. Much like the Stormfather tells Dalinar he doesn’t see everything while riding the storm. 

[Gilphon]

I feel like Odium probably knows he's on the planet; the guy's left his fingerprints all over the place. It'd be way too easy for him to pick up on the description of the King's Wit from Amaram or Sadeas or somebody, or hear about a trio of unsubtle worldhoppers searching the purelake for a certain wanderer. 

We can, however, infer from the way that Kholinar isn't currently a smouldering crater than Odium can't track him in real time or pinpoint his exact location. 

Though, now that I think about it, he's been in Kholinar for a little while now. Long enough for the Everstorm to have passed by a few times. I wonder how he's hiding from it. Maybe he goes and hides in that Aluminium-lined room he set up for the Wall Guard?

[Aon Tia she/her]

7 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

It'd be way too easy for him to pick up on the description of the King's Wit from Amaram or Sadeas or somebody

I don’t think that Sadeas worked for odium so u see no chance of that. And Amaram came to shattered plains very late and I do not remember any interactions that he had with Hoid at all.
T again does not know or ever met kings wit either. 
The 3 worldhoppers I think might know how to be discreet. They also are no close to finding Hoid at all. And odium being actually based on Braize I think is much less aware of things 

[Gilphon]

Odium describes the Sadeas army as 'soldiers he's been preparing for a very long time', so I feel we can reasonably assume that he has, at the very least, been whispering into Torol's mind for quite a while. Which implies a certain amount of awareness of his general situation and the people in his social circle. 

And Amaram has absolutely interacted with Hoid; on-screen even. Amaram has attended parties where Hoid has been acting as the King's Wit. We see one such party in WoR, and the two of them appear to have spoken in the past. 

And, like, generally, if Hoid intended to hide his presence on the planet entirely, becoming one of the most distinctive and recognizable figures in Elhokar's court in a really dumb thing to do. At that point he just no longer has any control over who knows what and who might tell who. Indeed, it strikes me as Hoid intentionally calling attention to his presence. Possibly the idea is to call Rayse's attention to one spot as a distraction, but then zip over to the other side of continent before Odium has a chance to confirm or act on that intel. Keep him guessing and unable to focus on his plans and whatnot, y'know?

[Aon Tia she/her]

50 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

Odium describes the Sadeas army as 'soldiers he's been preparing for a very long time', so I feel we can reasonably assume that he has, at the very least, been whispering into Torol's mind for quite a while. Which implies a certain amount of awareness of his general situation and the people in his social circle. 

And Amaram has absolutely interacted with Hoid; on-screen even. Amaram has attended parties where Hoid has been acting as the King's Wit. We see one such party in WoR, and the two of them appear to have spoken in the past. 

And, like, generally, if Hoid intended to hide his presence on the planet entirely, becoming one of the most distinctive and recognizable figures in Elhokar's court in a really dumb thing to do. At that point he just no longer has any control over who knows what and who might tell who. Indeed, it strikes me as Hoid intentionally calling attention to his presence. Possibly the idea is to call Rayse's attention to one spot as a distraction, but then zip over to the other side of continent before Odium has a chance to confirm or act on that intel. Keep him guessing and unable to focus on his plans and whatnot, y'know?

Hmm I forgot that odium said that about sadeas’s forces, yes we can presume then that he had Sadeas as a pawn too. 
May be Amaram was mocked by Hoid during those feasts in WoR but I do not remember it specifically on-page but you are right. 
I still think though, that neither Sadeas nor Amaram ever paid much mind to Wit and I don’t really think they ever realised that he is of any importance. I also don’t think that that was a very prominent position to hold for Hoid. It could have been a politically useful post but I don’t think anyone in Alethkar considered Wit to have any such power. So I doubt they ever told Odium about Wit. 
That being said, I concede that it is very possible that odium knows Hoid is on Roshar somewhere but I really doubt that he knows about Hoid being the Alethkar  Kings Wit 

[Eternal Khol he/him]

23 hours ago, Gilphon said:

Odium describes the Sadeas army as 'soldiers he's been preparing for a very long time', so I feel we can reasonably assume that he has, at the very least, been whispering into Torol's mind for quite a while

Odium can't whisper to people like Ruin can. Preservation and Ruin made Scadrial and all life on it. Ruin is a part of them. 

Odium on the other hand didn't make Roshar, he's not on the planet and he's bound to braize.

 

Also Odium probably has an inkling due to the Fused being told to keep an eye out for him.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Chalke219]

10 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Also Odium probably has an inkling due to the Fused being told to keep an eye out for him.

When was this? Do we have anything solid on this? 

[Zapata]

4 hours ago, Chalke219 said:

When was this? Do we have anything solid on this? 

It's in the OB epilogue, but I currently do not have access to that, so the next best thing is the Coppermind entry for Vatwha, the Fused:

Quote

Hoid danced with Vatwha thousands of years before the True Desolation, but later, she was trained--presumably by Odium--to watch for Hoid.

Hoid saw Vatwha in Kholinar after the Siege of Kholinar, hovering in the air, acting as a sentry. Despite her training to spot Hoid, she gave him barely a glance when he passed underneath her. Hoid decided to not take it as an insult.

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

On 2020-01-28 at 5:28 AM, The Traveller said:

May be Amaram was mocked by Hoid during those feasts in WoR but I do not remember it specifically on-page but you are right. 

It happens on-page. Hoid gives him a long roast. 

On 2020-01-28 at 4:31 AM, Gilphon said:

 

Odium describes the Sadeas army as 'soldiers he's been preparing for a very long time', so I feel we can reasonably assume that he has, at the very least, been whispering into Torol's mind for quite a while. Which implies a certain amount of awareness of his general situation and the people in his social circle. 

 

He has certainly prepared House Sadeas, though I strongly doubt he had contact with Torol. And I defenitely think Odium has better things to do than watching Sadeas memories on playback (same goes for Meridas). I’d don’t think Odium knows of Hoid from them.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

11 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

It happens on-page. Hoid gives him a long roast. 

He has certainly prepared House Sadeas, though I strongly doubt he had contact with Torol. And I defenitely think Odium has better things to do than watching Sadeas memories on playback (same goes for Meridas). I’d don’t think Odium knows of Hoid from them.

Exactly. Sadeas himself was never even a player in the game.

[The Awakened Salad they/them]

On 1/30/2020 at 4:07 AM, Bearer of Agonies said:

It's in the OB epilogue, but I currently do not have access to that, so the next best thing is the Coppermind entry for Vatwha, the Fused:

Were you referring to this part?

Quote

On the other hand, if Rayse learned that Wit was in the city, he'd order his forces to level it--and would consider that a cheap price for even the slimmest chance of ending him.

This seems to suggest that Odium knows Hoid is on Roshar, but not exactly where.