Koloss17 She/They Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Do lifeless need a passcode? if a misting is revived as a lifeless, will they still have their powers? if a misting comes back as a returned, will they still have powers? what does storing a divine breath in a Nicrosil mind do? how does buying breath work? can you store individual breath in an object? So like four or 27? Edited January 17, 2020 by Koloss17 Added more question
+Invocation Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 26 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: if a misting is revived as a lifeless, will they still have their powers? Probably not, since most of the Spiritweb is gone and subbed for the Breath used. 26 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: if a misting comes back as a returned, will they still have powers? Also probably not, but more of a chance of that than of the Lifeless keeping powers. 27 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: how does buying breath work? You pay someone and they transfer the Breath to you, presumably. 28 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: can you store individual breath in an object? So like four or 27? Vasher probably could, since he knows the key to partitioning Breath. Most others...cannot. 29 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: Do lifeless need a passcode? I think anyone could control them if they didn't have one, so not really but also kind of.
Karger he/him Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 Invocation got most of them 45 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: how does buying breath work? Depends where you are. In some places it is more carefully regulated then others. 16 minutes ago, Invocation said: Vasher probably could, since he knows the key to partitioning Breath. Most others...cannot. Actually most people could do this if only by trail and error in using low level breath commands and then returning the breath to themselves.
+Invocation Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 58 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said: Actually most people could do this if only by trail and error in using low level breath commands and then returning the breath to themselves. I mean yeah but I took that to mean directly.
Honorless he/him Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) To clarify the Lifeless passcode thing, that's a function of the Command used to create them Awaken to my Breath, serve my needs, live at my Command and at my word. <Security phrase> That is the one-Breath Lifeless creation Command, which among many other factors, was part of the reason for the Manywars, though the security phrases themselves were probably used before that as well. Edited January 17, 2020 by Honorless
Quantus he/him Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Koloss17 said: Do lifeless need a passcode? Nope, it's just an option that can be added to the Command. And since they can be changed at will by whomever knows the old one, it's really just more of a standing Order than anything integral to Lifeless Command itself. 13 hours ago, Koloss17 said: if a misting is revived as a lifeless, will they still have their powers? if a misting comes back as a returned, will they still have powers? Probably not, based on THIS WOB that says an awakener that became a Lifeless would probably not be able to reclaim Breaths because "Lifeless have someone else's investiture replacing their own. (As opposed to Returned, who are augmented.)" Though it then goes on to say there are differences if they are made a Lifeless with their Own original Breath, so maybe it would work then? 13 hours ago, Koloss17 said: what does storing a divine breath in a Nicrosil mind do? Id say it would depend: If you are the Returned, you'd probably die (though it might take a week to happen) because it's responsible for keeping your soul attached to your body. On the other hand, if you are just some schmuck who got his Hands on an unSealed Metalminds with a Divine Breath stored inside, you should be able to basically activate and remove that divine breath at will, though you'd probably still have to feed it every 7 days worth of active use. (Note that in medallions it is confirmed by WOB that the Investiture is stores and retrieved as a whole thing like Memories in Copper, not as a drain-able quantity like say Health or Age. So you could become a normal persona at need, but have the ability to become a temporary God of the Iridescent Tones, get all super-sized and Powerful, then go back to being a person after. That could even be a really interesting cult-religion, where they have an Artifact of Godhood that is passed down and only rarely used. 13 hours ago, Koloss17 said: how does buying breath work? Just like buying anything else. In Hallandren it's a commodity that you buy and sell like any other, with and for money like anything else. IN Shadesmar is sounds liek they are also available, but they have a Stormlight economy. And I wouldnt be surprised to find them available is Silverlight and such, being bought and sold using whatever the local economy uses. 13 hours ago, Koloss17 said: can you store individual breath in an object? So like four or 27? Yes, No, and Probably. Yes in that: Unlike what the characters were originally told, you do not have to transfer all your breaths at once. The normal way to go about this is to perform an Awakening that uses some percentage of your breaths, doing so will transfer as many breaths as the Awakening calls for and no more. Then you can transfer what's left into another object, reclaim the first, and rinse and repeat until you have subdivided up your stash as you see fit. No in that: There is not currently a known command that lets you just Dump a chosen amount and no more into a object, the awakeners we've seen had to jump through the hoops described above to make it happen. Probably in that: Awakening is a developing art, so things are only impossible until they are not. It was impossible to revive a Lifeless with a single breath until it was Suddenly possible. We dont know what subtlety of Command and Mental Image made that possible, but there is every possibility that some Command exists out there that would indeed let an awakened deposit arbitrary amounts of breaths in one go without added hassle
GoWibble he/him Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Koloss17 said: if a misting is revived as a lifeless, will they still have their powers? if a misting comes back as a returned, will they still have powers? Well, here are a few WoBs and then I'll share my stance: 4 Quote Bluebar How does [Bloodsealing] actually work with [the skeletals]? Does it trap something inside the bones like a Command? Brandon Sanderson Yeah, it works very similar to making Lifeless. Slight variations, but you are basically animating the bones by using Investiture that doesn't actually belong to them and tricking them into thinking that it does for a little bit of time and making it think it's alive again. And the fact that it's bones is really important for that, for Bloodsealing. But it's working in a similar way. The distinction is that with Lifeless you are actually using part of their own soul, right? And with Bloodsealing you're not. Orem Signing (March 16, 2019) Quote little wilson Can a Shardblade-killed body be turned into a Lifeless? Brandon Sanderson Can a Shardblade-killed body be turned into a Lifeless. Yeees, it can be re-Invested. Yes. little wilson Are there any side-effects to doing so? Brandon Sanderson Uhhh, there would be side-effects. I won't tell you what they are. They would be minor, minor, mostly inconsequential side-effects. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) Quote little wilson Can a Mistborn turned into a Lifeless still use Allomancy? Brandon Sanderson *long-ish pause* Uh, no. little wilson So I would assume that is the same for a Feruchemist? Brandon Sanderson Yeah if you-- taking some-- Yeah. No they can't. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) Well, I don't think that Mistings can be made Lifeless. Yes, I know that that WoB is asking if they can use allomacy, but I think that you can only make lifeless from people from Nalthis into awakened by giving them part of their sould back. I don't think that Breaths are just generic soul: you would have to do a weird hack to do that. Edited January 17, 2020 by GoWibble 1
Koloss17 She/They Posted January 17, 2020 Author Posted January 17, 2020 So how about returned? They are basically CS stapled with a divine breath. Kelsier made the BoM, so he was able to use allomancy somehow.
Quantus he/him Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 28 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: So how about returned? They are basically CS stapled with a divine breath. Kelsier made the BoM, so he was able to use allomancy somehow. Kelsier's a bad example. Since he held Preservation he would have had the same opportunity to grant himself Fullborn status that the Lord Ruler used to get the full spectrum of powers. That being said, Returned maintain their abilities, at least regarding their ability to Awaken, so they would likely retain any preexisting Metallic Arts. But it's important to note that there is a huge difference between a Returned-style Cognitive Shadows and Lifeless which are more along the lines of partially reanimated Zombies, so they will behave differently in a lot of ways.
Koloss17 She/They Posted January 17, 2020 Author Posted January 17, 2020 What about sentient awakened objects? Is there a secret to making those? Or is it one of the many mysteries of warbreaker?
Weltall Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: So how about returned? They are basically CS stapled with a divine breath. Assuming for purposes of argument that someone with allomantic powers could Return (which would require either lerasium or some Connection hacks, depending on the circumstances) they would presumably retain their powers but since the Returned lack memories of their former lives, they wouldn't remember they have those powers so they would be like Vin at the start of TFE, using whatever metal they ingested instinctively without knowing what they're really doing. So they might have the same powers but they would need to relearn how to use them. 6 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: What about sentient awakened objects? Is there a secret to making those? Or is it one of the many mysteries of warbreaker? We know how to make a 'normal' sapient Awakened object, it just requires a lot of Breath for both the Heightening and the actual Awakening, which is why they were theoretical until Shashara and Vasher actually did it. Nightblood is not a typical Type-IV Entity and he's got some Ruin-flavored Investiture in there along with what comes from Endowment. Yesteel knows how to make other Type-IV entities (and may have been the person who Awakened Vivenna's sword) so Nightblood is likely to go into more detail on the topic. In general, Investiture will attain sapience if you leave enough of it alone for a long enough period of time (the more there is, the faster it'll happen and the closer to human-like intelligence it will have) but things can be done to speed up the process. 1
Karger he/him Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 57 minutes ago, Koloss17 said: What about sentient awakened objects? Is there a secret to making those? Or is it one of the many mysteries of warbreaker? You need the 9th heightening. We don't know anything else about it. 1
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