Copper clouds

[Dancer]

What effects happen when you burn flare Copper or use Duralamin and Copper or have a lot of smokers burning in one area. Acording to Brandon it does weird things.

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Steeldancer

What happens when you flare copper?

Brandon Sanderson

What happens when you flare copper? Various different things can happen when you flare copper. I'll RAFO that for now. [...] I'll delve into that more, I don't want to delve into it too much right now, you'll find out, probably in Era 3, some of the things that can happen with copper.

 

We know that normally it can hide you from seeking and life sense. 

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CealdishOrbLender

Can a Smoker block an Awakener's lifesense?

Brandon Sanderson

That will work, yes.

 

It can dampen the color distortions caused by holding a lot of Breath.

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OrangeJedi

If a coppercloud was near an Awakener, would they dampen the effect of the colors being deepened around them?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't thought about that. Yes. That one is a tenuous yes, though, I would have to think about it.

And IIRC it can with enough strength block a Parshendie from hearing the Rythms. But what do you think the "weired effects" can be.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Dancer

[Calderis he/him]

Without really understanding why copper does what it does, it's hard to guess. 

We also know that copper clouds have some kind of effect on spren with no details. And that the Aviar like Kokerli are essentially the same effect as copper clouds

Considering the effects that they all seem to have, blocking detection, hiding perception from the Cognitive, preventing emotional allomancy on the one burning (and potentially with a lot of work, others) perhaps it's actually strengthening the barriers between realms? 

So maybe the weird effects could be something along the lines of creating a segregation similar to the Kandra where higher brain function fails (worst of all for the user unfortunately, just like the he emotional block)... Or maybe it would work kind of like a reverse leecher, not burning away what Investiture they have, but preventing more from coming in? 

It's all guesswork at this point though.

[Dancer]

Here is a guess at what Copper can do. Since it blocks detection of Investiture (both kinetic and innate) it should also hide you from detection from someone in the CR. In the Scadrien subastral sentient beings glow. If Copper blocks detection of your innate Investiture then when someone burns Copper their Cognitive aspect should dim. If you increase the power enough then I believe it should be completely undetectable from someone looking in through the CR. Maybe this is how Hoid is able to go around Roshar without being detected by Odium. It would also keep you safe from being Soulcast. Can't transform you if they can't find your Cognitive aspect. 

[Honorless he/him]

2 hours ago, Dancer said:

Here is a guess at what Copper can do. Since it blocks detection of Investiture (both kinetic and innate) it should also hide you from detection from someone in the CR. In the Scadrien subastral sentient beings glow. If Copper blocks detection of your innate Investiture then when someone burns Copper their Cognitive aspect should dim. If you increase the power enough then I believe it should be completely undetectable from someone looking in through the CR. Maybe this is how Hoid is able to go around Roshar without being detected by Odium. It would also keep you safe from being Soulcast. Can't transform you if they can't find your Cognitive aspect. 

That sounds brilliant @Dancer!

Hoid has hidden himself from far too many Shards, I didn't think to connect him with these other Investitures.

Scadrial's Cognitive Realm is discussed far to little, imo

As for the strange thing, perhaps Copper can shield from more than just detection systems? 

[StanLemon]

I have no evidence of it but I have a hypothesis that Copper makes an Investiture static so to speak.

[Zinc_compounder he/him]

You know, speaking of strengthening the barriers between realms, decreasing connections, I just had a bunch of stupid ideas and questions. What would happen is during one of our moments of Ascension, ex, Vin or Dalinar, someone in the area or next to them, flared copper? What would have happened, if, say, Elend was flaring copper and Atium when he burned the Duralumin? If you flared copper in a highstorm, and had outside spheres in the cloud, would they still charge? If you flared it around a perpindicularity, could people still travel either way? Could you shut down the Ire's fortress doing this? Would some of these require Duralimin or a Nicroburst? What if you were also spiked for Copper? How much would Savantism play a role?

I think the theory has quite a bit or merit. Now I really want more Mistborn.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

2 hours ago, Zinc_compounder said:

You know, speaking of strengthening the barriers between realms, decreasing connections, I just had a bunch of stupid ideas and questions. What would happen is during one of our moments of Ascension, ex, Vin or Dalinar, someone in the area or next to them, flared copper? What would have happened, if, say, Elend was flaring copper and Atium when he burned the Duralumin? If you flared copper in a highstorm, and had outside spheres in the cloud, would they still charge? If you flared it around a perpindicularity, could people still travel either way? Could you shut down the Ire's fortress doing this? Would some of these require Duralimin or a Nicroburst? What if you were also spiked for Copper? How much would Savantism play a role?

I think the theory has quite a bit or merit. Now I really want more Mistborn.

I feel like we need a coppercloud PoV character for Era 3, now. Some of these questions need (or would benefit more from) direct observation from the user's perspective. Like, yes, we saw what copper allomancy was like with Vin, but like with Breeze, having solely copper allomancy would mean you'd dedicate all of your allomantic practice to that one metal. Surely copper mistings have figured out something unique over the generations, especially once Medallions become more widespread on the way to Era 3.

[Dancer]

On 10/20/2019 at 6:03 AM, Zinc_compounder said:

 If you flared copper in a highstorm, and had outside spheres in the cloud, would they still charge? If you flared it around a perpindicularity, could people still travel either way? Could you shut down the Ire's fortress doing this? Would some of these require Duralimin or a Nicroburst? What if you were also spiked for Copper? How much would Savantism play a role?

I think the theory has quite a bit or merit. Now I really want more Mistborn.

Brandon has stated that Nightblood can collapse a Perpendiularity if you were to unsheathe him inside one. If Copper could do something similar then you would need a ridicules amount of Investiture but simply blocking someone from coming and going I see working (assuming that Copper strengthens the barriers between words).      

Edited October 21, 2019 by Dancer

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

If multiple coppercloud mistings working together can increase the potency of the cloud, and they each had Kokerlii-type Aviar paired with them, then I could see them being able to reach some sort of weird effects with that level of "cloudyness". 

 

Personally I want to know if it could in fact close a perpendicularity, what would happen with the Investiture that was making it in the first place? 

[Dancer]

A thought just occurred to me. Would Copper clouds be able to block a Shade from detecting you with their "Earth Sense". I would think that "Earth Sense" is similar to Life Sense so in that case yes it would. That would mean that on Threnody you would be the most over powered being on the planet. You could brake all of the three rules and the Shades would not be able to find you. 

Another thought. Do Larkins sense Investiture or do they just see Stormlight or The Mists and think I can eat that. If they do sense Investiture then again if someone tries to use them as a weapon (like a certain Skybreaker) then you would be immune because they would think that there is nothing there to eat. Thinking about it now Copper Alomancy is extremely versatile and handy. Not to mention that it is extremely efficient as well.  

Edited December 19, 2019 by Dancer

[StanLemon]

I would assume it could be used to hide from Shades considering all the other things it can block. 

Also I would assume that Larkins would have at least some kind of Investiture sense. Even if it was just a rudimentary one

[Karger he/him]

I believe we have a WoB that says that enough copperclouds could block soothing.  IF that is the case then I have an idea.  Soothing works by sending a "ripple" through the CR.  This ripple interacts with your cognitive self(like a wave).  What I think a coppercloud is doing is producing a bunch of ripples at your location, like static, that masks your location.  I imagine spren wood flee such an area(it would be like a highstorm on the cognitive side).

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

On 10/21/2019 at 6:38 AM, Dancer said:

Brandon has stated that Nightblood can collapse a Perpendiularity if you were to unsheathe him inside one.

Out of curiosity, do you know where this was said? I only ask because of the battle scene in Oathbringer which seems to contradict this.

[Dancer]

3 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Out of curiosity, do you know where this was said? I only ask because of the battle scene in Oathbringer which seems to contradict this.

 Here you go

 

 

Questioner

What would happen if Nightblood was drawn inside of a perpendicularity?

Brandon Sanderson

It depends on the perpendicularity. It has a good chance of collapsing it. 

[Weltall]

4 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Out of curiosity, do you know where this was said? I only ask because of the battle scene in Oathbringer which seems to contradict this.

Nightblood wasn't in Honor's Perpendicularity at any point in the battle. The Perpendicularity was centered around Dalinar (visually represented as a column of light) Szeth was quite some distance away and the thing collapsed before he returned to Dalinar with a now-sheathed Nightblood. What we see happen with Szeth is due to the sudden surge of Stormlight that blanketed the area but that wasn't the Perpendicularity itself, just an effect of its proximity.

[Karger he/him]

Additionally it would still take time for Nightblood to feed.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

14 hours ago, Weltall said:

Nightblood wasn't in Honor's Perpendicularity at any point in the battle. The Perpendicularity was centered around Dalinar (visually represented as a column of light) Szeth was quite some distance away and the thing collapsed before he returned to Dalinar with a now-sheathed Nightblood. What we see happen with Szeth is due to the sudden surge of Stormlight that blanketed the area but that wasn't the Perpendicularity itself, just an effect of its proximity.

Stormlight spoiler because I can’t remember which section this thread was in.

Spoiler

I guess my point was that Nightblood gets “drunk” from just being in the vicinity. It seems odd that he could eat a full blown perpendicularity when a single Bondsmith can overpower him. I don’t have OB on hand at the moment, does Nightblood stop eating Szeth before he is sheathed or after?

 

[Quantus he/him]

On 10/19/2019 at 4:04 AM, Calderis said:

Without really understanding why copper does what it does, it's hard to guess. 

We also know that copper clouds have some kind of effect on spren with no details. And that the Aviar like Kokerli are essentially the same effect as copper clouds

Considering the effects that they all seem to have, blocking detection, hiding perception from the Cognitive, preventing emotional allomancy on the one burning (and potentially with a lot of work, others) perhaps it's actually strengthening the barriers between realms? 

So maybe the weird effects could be something along the lines of creating a segregation similar to the Kandra where higher brain function fails (worst of all for the user unfortunately, just like the he emotional block)... Or maybe it would work kind of like a reverse leecher, not burning away what Investiture they have, but preventing more from coming in? 

It's all guesswork at this point though.

That's an interesting possibility! If that is the case, then flairing it could very likely cross the line into tangible effect, and inhibit any ability that relies on (or benefits from) a thinning of those barriers.  Meaning a sufficiently strong copper-cloud might be able to block Soulcasting, Elscalling, and possibly even Spiritual Healing.  

 

 

[NysemePtem he/him]

On 12/18/2019 at 10:39 PM, Dancer said:

A thought just occurred to me. Would Copper clouds be able to block a Shade from detecting you with their "Earth Sense". I would think that "Earth Sense" is similar to Life Sense so in that case yes it would. That would mean that on Threnody you would be the most over powered being on the planet. You could brake all of the three rules and the Shades would not be able to find you. 

Another thought. Do Larkins sense Investiture or do they just see Stormlight or The Mists and think I can eat that. If they do sense Investiture then again if someone tries to use them as a weapon (like a certain Skybreaker) then you would be immune because they would think that there is nothing there to eat. Thinking about it now Copper Alomancy is extremely versatile and handy. Not to mention that it is extremely efficient as well.  

What would have happened if a Larkin had been on Scadrial around the time of Vin's ascension? Could a Larkin have absorbed all the Mists and become Preservation's shareholder? 

NGL I'm picturing a tiny dragon-thing suddenly becoming one of the Cosmere's Gods

[Dancer]

19 hours ago, NysemePtem said:

What would have happened if a Larkin had been on Scadrial around the time of Vin's ascension? Could a Larkin have absorbed all the Mists and become Preservation's shareholder? 

NGL I'm picturing a tiny dragon-thing suddenly becoming one of the Cosmere's Gods

I would assume because it consumes investiture instead of food there is a limit to the amount it can absorb at once. They are not like Nightblood who will just keep absorbing. 

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

1 hour ago, Dancer said:

I would assume because it consumes investiture instead of food there is a limit to the amount it can absorb at once. They are not like Nightblood who will just keep absorbing. 

Actually even Nightblood will reach a point where he/it becomes "full", at least affecting his mental faculties (he starts to sound tired/drunk). So a Larkin would probably just take a nap after absorbing enough Investiture, to "digest" it properly.

[NysemePtem he/him]

8 hours ago, Dancer said:

I would assume because it consumes investiture instead of food there is a limit to the amount it can absorb at once. They are not like Nightblood who will just keep absorbing. 

damnation so much for our Shardic Overlord Chiri-Chiri