Candidates For the Six Remaining Shards (A Simple Theory)

[SzethIsBadAsHell]

@Tglassy look we both love the books . One thing I have figured out about Brandon , his mind does not follow logic . He goes around the corner to cross the street . While both our predictions seem logical ; his mind will take a path we cannot predict . I like your idea , it has merit , it’s well thought out . As the last 6 shards are revealed you will see exactly what I mean! 

[Guest Parallax]

On 11/10/2019 at 2:32 AM, Lunu’anaki said:

Honestly I think Justice can't be a shard because too many of thwe current shards could combine to become Justice. Honor and Odium together are viable for a combination Shard known as Justice (Like Harmony). Honor and Preservation are another, Honor and Ambition being a third...

Honor is just too similar to Justice for me to believe Justice would be a separate shard.

If anything Odium would be the opposite of a Justice/Judgement shard. In conversation with Dalinar Odium singles out the Skybreakers as the order most distant from him. Honor is closer to Justice but it is quite distinct, Justice imposes obligations on persons regardless of whether they have made a promise or formed a bound, in that way would be much more demanding. Moreover certain bonds and oaths would be unjust even if both parties agreed to it. 

***

I see a lot of responses have delved into complex theories. My simple idea was to look at divine attributes that exist across cultures and see which one we have not seen. The aim was to start a discussion about god's characteristics across religions and cultures not another general thread speculating about the remaining six shards.

[Lunu’anaki]

2 hours ago, Parallax said:

If anything Odium would be the opposite of a Justice/Judgement shard. In conversation with Dalinar Odium singles out the Skybreakers as the order most distant from him. Honor is closer to Justice but it is quite distinct, Justice imposes obligations on persons regardless of whether they have made a promise or formed a bound, in that way would be much more demanding. Moreover certain bonds and oaths would be unjust even if both parties agreed to it. 

Odium says a lot of things, it doesn't make them true. I find the words of Frost to be more trustworthy in regards to determining his true nature... 

"He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context."

What is God's Hatred useful for; other than to be utilized to enact justice? There's no other aspect I could see as more fitting for Odium to be a piece of. It's hard for me to view that as the opposite of justice. The opposite of justice isn't hatred. If any Shard were the opposite of Odium I would think it would be Devotion. (love is the opposite of hate, etc.etc.)

 

On 11/14/2019 at 2:23 AM, Tglassy said:

Ok, I'll do this again.

Physical, Mental, Spiritual, Enhancement

That's really solid. I like the idea and it fits with a lot of cosmere things we already know. I doubt the terminology of push/pull will be used in regards to the shards as well but I think you're looking in the right direction.

It would be great if someone asked Brandon a question at a signing about if the shards are correlated like this in some way

Edited November 16, 2019 by Lunu’anaki

[Wander89]

Totally getting LOST vibes with this. Do these remaining candidates have the numbers 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 assigned!?

[KandraAllomancer]

I would add Mystery to the list (for Adonalsium works in mysterious ways...). Given that there may be still a Shard on Yolen:

Quote

Aurimus

Did any Shards remain on Yolen post-Shattering? If so, how many?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO!

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

Mystery could be responsible for hiding the planet. Also, Jeskeri Mysteries could have been somehow inspired by the memory of this Shard (the Ire were worldhopping for a very long time and might have heard stories), just like Thaylen Passions were inspired by Odium

 

[Guest Parallax]

@Lunu’anaki Here is Odium talking to Dalinar:

Quote

If you could see the result of Honor’s influence, you would not be so quick to name me a god of anger. Separate the emotion from men, and you have creatures like Nale and his Skybreakers. That is what Honor would have given you.

Aside from that concept of Justice/Judgement always includes the idea that it is free from passions/emotions. The fact that you may need emotions/passions to execute a judgement is a separate matter. Which is why I didn't mention Wrath or Vengeance as possible shard. 

[SirWolfe]

Solid ideas:

Tenacity maybe. That sounds like a shard name. The idea of continuing to exist through the ages sounds like a good intent as well.

Equity. Also sounds Shard-y. 

Prudence/Providence/Wisdom for all the reasons that others have said. 

 

Less solid ideas:

Veracity. Truthful and without deceit.  Sounds Shard-y as well, but I feel like it would be difficult to write a magic system for it (maybe in a similar fashion as Truths for Lightweavers though?)

Jealousy. A desire to keep a connection and relationship with others is one that sounds good, but trying to think of how it works is difficult. 

 

 

[Chiberty]

I would like to see Curiosity as a Shard. That would be a terrifying aspect to have on its own... even worse with Shardic levels of power.

[phoenix2563]

I posted this in another thread by @Ixthos, but wanted to post here to see what you guys thought also.

I think it makes sense, that if "Unity" is simply Dalinar's interpretation of "Honor", that the orders would at least be loosely based on the 16 shards of Adonalsium, which may in turn help us identify the remaining shards.  Let me know your thoughts!

• Windrunners = Protecting, Leadership = Preservation

• Skybreakers = Just, Confidence    Justice / Ego  (Though I think Vengeance would be a possibility if you combined "Justice" and "Odium".  I also think that Ego serves a nice counterbalance to "Humility" below)

• Dustbringers = Brave, Obedient = Dominion  

• Edgedancers = Loving, Healing = Devotion / Cultivation

• Truthwatchers = Learned, Giving = Scholarship / Endowment (with Scholarship perhaps associated with Silverlight?)

• Lightweavers = Creative, Honest = Ingenuity

• Elsecallers = Wise, Careful = Prudence (a variant of wisdom that also fits with this being the survival shard)

• Willshapers = Resolute, Builder = Ambition

• Stonewards = Dependable, Resourceful = Autonomy

• Bondsmiths = Pious, Guiding = Humility / Honor

I couldn't really find a place for either Ruin or Odium, but those two may be so at odds with Honor that perhaps they were left out.

What do you guys think?  This would have the 6 remaining shards be (or some variant of) Justice, Ego, Scholarship, Ingenuity, Prudence and Humility

[Lunu’anaki]

23 hours ago, Parallax said:

@Lunu’anaki Here is Odium talking to Dalinar:

Aside from that concept of Justice/Judgement always includes the idea that it is free from passions/emotions. The fact that you may need emotions/passions to execute a judgement is a separate matter. Which is why I didn't mention Wrath or Vengeance as possible shard. 

Judgement, I agree, would require an absense of passion.... Justice however, well in some sense Justice is in the eye of the beholder, right? A skybreaker's view of Justice is much different from a Windrunner's view of Justice. It's like the question: What is right? Many people means many different answers...

So, I guess it's just really hard to say what Justice would be made out of... however I hold my ground on the idea that Honor is part of it. True Justice is nothing if not Honorable and I think anyone could agree on that point, philosophically speaking.

[Tglassy]

1 hour ago, Lunu’anaki said:

Judgement, I agree, would require an absense of passion.... Justice however, well in some sense Justice is in the eye of the beholder, right? A skybreaker's view of Justice is much different from a Windrunner's view of Justice. It's like the question: What is right? Many people means many different answers...

So, I guess it's just really hard to say what Justice would be made out of... however I hold my ground on the idea that Honor is part of it. True Justice is nothing if not Honorable and I think anyone could agree on that point, philosophically speaking.

Mmm, I don't know about that.  Honor is about keeping one's oaths.  Being bound by your word.  And I mean that outside of the books.  It is about doing what is right, not about meting out punishments on those who deserve it.  Sure, you have people like Moash who will justify their revenge by calling it "justice", but that's just a justification.  They convince themselves that it is right so it must be justice.  

 

But where does Justice come from?  Emotion and passion do nothing but cloud the issue.  One could argue 'the law', but what if the law is unjust?  That is possible.  So what makes one thing just and another thing not just?

 

Honor is about keeping oaths, but Justice is about getting what is deserved.  These are two different things.  For a good person, justice is getting something good.  For a bad person, Justice is getting something bad.  Oaths and bindings have nothing to do with it, nor does passion.  It seems to be its own thing.

[phoenix2563]

2 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Honor is about keeping oaths, but Justice is about getting what is deserved.  These are two different things.  For a good person, justice is getting something good.  For a bad person, Justice is getting something bad.  Oaths and bindings have nothing to do with it, nor does passion.  It seems to be its own thing.

Completely agree with this.  If Justice is indeed a shard, it would make sense that Rayse would have gone after it early, possibly #2 on his hit list right after Ambition, before heading to Sel.  

Perhaps Justice even witnessed Odium's splintering of Ambition and in turn confronted Rayse, which would be in line with the shard's intent?

Edited November 18, 2019 by phoenix2563

[HowlingWolf]

Where would the "survivor"  shard fit in?

[Frustration]

On 11/10/2019 at 4:18 AM, IcaroRibeiro said:

 

- Freedom: The shard with the intent of having no intent (it's a paradox). The shard of free-will, instability and fickleness. This shard looks good, but it's extremely unstable, destroying things when It's tired of it. It probably have no respect for other shards agreements and is always moving from system to system. This shard is likewise to see its Vessel as an enemy, so the shard "discard" the vessel from times to times, seeking for another one. The 3rd more dangerous shard, behind Odium and Ambition. But It lacks of foresight and doesn't plan things in long run (as It is concerned only with immediate things), which makes him less dangerous

My personal definition of freedom is not the lack of bonds but the ability to choose those bonds.

[Friendshipspren]

I'm betting on the shards  Depravity and Imitation

[Experience]

Here are my ideas for some.

Experience("Experience herself is the great teacher, and you must seek her directly." Oathbringer chapter heading)

Wisdom("I am not one of those, for wisdom and I have always been at cross-purposes, and I have yet to learn the tongue in which she speaks." Wit speaking to Shallan.)

Both of these are possibilities of the survivor shard as it takes wisdom to survive and also if you have experience you can better survive.

Brandon has said that the one that wanted to survive has found that hiding is no longer the best thing for it. This could be because the Vessel got enough wisdoom or experience to figure this out.

Edited March 20, 2020 by EXPERIENCE

[Guest Parallax]

On 3/14/2020 at 6:22 AM, PrinceGenocide said:

I'm betting on the shards  Depravity and Imitation

Those are very odd divine attributes!

[Dancer]

On 3/14/2020 at 8:52 PM, PrinceGenocide said:

I'm betting on the shards  Depravity and Imitation

Well not all divine beings are considered good so I guess it could work. Lucifer represents hubris so you could count that in as well.    

[TheOneKEA]

There may be a shard called Caution or Uncertainty. Alternatively, there could be a shard called Ego or Arrogance. Any of these would make sense for a theoretically omnipotent being that was able to be killed.

[Friendshipspren]

12 hours ago, Parallax said:

Those are very odd divine attributes!

Umm none of them are. I mean geez , we just put attributes which we think are great or dramatic or fundamental and apply that to God. 

Besides ok , imitation is not likely I guess. 

But depravity or deprivation surely is. I mean most gods in most mythologies are cruel atleast a few times and might even be charecterized as sadistic. 

I mean odium isn't much of a good charecteristic either. But old  Ado had it. Besides it wasn't a god , more a force of nature and nature is cruel. 

4 hours ago, Dancer said:

Well not all divine beings are considered good so I guess it could work. Lucifer represents hubris so you could count that in as well.    

Oh yeah. This too. Thanks dude. 

 

[IcaroRibeiro]

I think it's time to update this thread

Edited November 20, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro

[+robardin]

9 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I think it's time to update this thread

Indeed, but.... in the Rhythm of War sub-forum, as you're going into Spoiler Territory until that freeze is lifted.

I see you edited your post, probably to remove mention of them? Or were you visited by agents of the Shard of Moderat

[IcaroRibeiro]

2 hours ago, robardin said:

 

I see you edited your post, probably to remove mention of them?

Yup, I mentioned two of them, then I remembered the spoiler restriction and edited 

[jamesbondsmith]

On 11/10/2019 at 7:18 PM, IcaroRibeiro said:

- Freedom: The shard with the intent of having no intent (it's a paradox). The shard of free-will, instability and fickleness. This shard looks good, but it's extremely unstable, destroying things when It's tired of it. It probably have no respect for other shards agreements and is always moving from system to system. This shard is likewise to see its Vessel as an enemy, so the shard "discard" the vessel from times to times, seeking for another one. The 3rd more dangerous shard, behind Odium and Ambition. But It lacks of foresight and doesn't plan things in long run (as It is concerned only with immediate things), which makes him less dangerous

I could see this being the final Cosmere Big Bad, although the 'freedom to do what you want' interpretation of Autonomy seems to be why people think Autonomy is the main villain.

Justice could be (at least partially) served by Odium alone, as several definitions of the word describe it as 'hatred incurred by someone's actions'. Rayse is supposed to be particularly nasty, so 'actions incurring hatred' could just be 'looked at me funny'.

Spoiler

I still don't buy the whole 'no I'm actually the god of Passion, not Odium' thing he has going, but I haven't read ROW yet so I don't know if it is confirmed/denied there.

As for any additions of my own, I'm not nearly well versed enough in religion to tell if Brandon is taking inspiration from 'real world' divine attributes, and there are too many different attributes for me to say 'this is it'.