lesser shards

[stormbourne]

since investiture cannot created or destroyed it is apparent that odium has insured that the powers cannot merge again so my main question is by doing so has he inadvertently created "lesser shards"

[Ripheus23]

Maybe, though the Dor might seem like a near-dishard. Maybe the Evil is a 'lesser' Shard kind of thing, too...?

[Karger]

3 hours ago, stormbourne said:

since investiture cannot created or destroyed it is apparent that odium has insured that the powers cannot merge again so my main question is by doing so has he inadvertently created "lesser shards"

The Stormfather, the Dor, and potentially the evil all sort of full full this.  Odium breaks them so that no one can again ascend to the power and challenge him.

[RShara]

Ambition might have big enough pieces left that someone might be able to take up some Splinters, but they'd be like a bucket next to an ocean, imo. At most, a lake compared to an ocean. The Stormfather I would put as close to a lake in size, and Odium already realized that he can't leave the Stormfather the way he is.

[Weltall]

4 hours ago, stormbourne said:

since investiture cannot created or destroyed it is apparent that odium has insured that the powers cannot merge again so my main question is by doing so has he inadvertently created "lesser shards"

Even the really big Splinters left behind (like the Stormfather) are still 'Honor-flavored' despite the Shard they're associated with has been Shattered. Splinters can (and often do) have an Intent that's their own in addition to what they get from the Shard but they're still part of that Shard's collective power.

Also, Odium has not ensured that the power can't be merged again, though he wants to keep anyone from picking them up again..Brandon has said that Splintering is not permanent so whatever he does can be reversed, just not easily. What Odium has basically done is made it very very hard for someone to pick up the power and Ascend which is the best he can do. Devotion and Dominion's powers are merging and we know that what's happened on Sel is something Odium didn't anticipate or want, but he didn't know enough at the time to avoid it. Honor could be reformed (and there's a popular theory that Dalinar will do it) which Odium acknowledges since he's realized he didn't do a thorough enough job the first time. Ambition is the only question mark since that Shard left large chunks of its power in the Threnodite System but was actually killed somewhere else, so there's multiple concentrations of power and any attempt to reform it might result in a weaker Shard or a lot of work to try and consolidate those multiple chunks of power across several systems.

[Scion of the Mists]

5 hours ago, stormbourne said:

since investiture cannot created or destroyed it is apparent that odium has insured that the powers cannot merge again so my main question is by doing so has he inadvertently created "lesser shards"

What exactly are you referring to by "creating lesser shards"?  Are you talking about him Splintering Ambition/Honor, him stuffing Dominion/Devotion in the CR, or something else?  

[stormbourne]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

What exactly are you referring to by "creating lesser shards"?  Are you talking about him Splintering Ambition/Honor, him stuffing Dominion/Devotion in the CR, or something else?  

the fragments that where made by splintering other shards specifically

[Halyo_Alex]

Imo now that we know Nightblood both contains Ruin-based investiture and is the most invested non-shard... tbh it feels like he's a Lesser Ruin.

If anything is going to be called a "lesser shard" it'd probably be him.

[jefftucker0525]

4 hours ago, Weltall said:

Even the really big Splinters left behind (like the Stormfather) are still 'Honor-flavored' despite the Shard they're associated with has been Shattered. Splinters can (and often do) have an Intent that's their own in addition to what they get from the Shard but they're still part of that Shard's collective power.

Also, Odium has not ensured that the power can't be merged again, though he wants to keep anyone from picking them up again..Brandon has said that Splintering is not permanent so whatever he does can be reversed, just not easily. What Odium has basically done is made it very very hard for someone to pick up the power and Ascend which is the best he can do. Devotion and Dominion's powers are merging and we know that what's happened on Sel is something Odium didn't anticipate or want, but he didn't know enough at the time to avoid it. Honor could be reformed (and there's a popular theory that Dalinar will do it) which Odium acknowledges since he's realized he didn't do a thorough enough job the first time. Ambition is the only question mark since that Shard left large chunks of its power in the Threnodite System but was actually killed somewhere else, so there's multiple concentrations of power and any attempt to reform it might result in a weaker Shard or a lot of work to try and consolidate those multiple chunks of power across several systems.

Could another full Shard gather up any of the chunks for a power boost? Might be interesting. And adding some Ambition would probably only make their intent stronger without too much overall change

[Scion of the Mists]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:06 PM, stormbourne said:

the fragments that where made by splintering other shards specifically

Then yes, he is making “mini-Shards” - sort of. All Splinters (e.g. spren, seons, etc) can be though of as mini-Shards. They can have sentience/sapience, autonomy, and even their own intent. However, they’re still considered part of their parent Shard. The Stormfather is still of Honor, even if he’s a separate being. 

[cometaryorbit]

Yeah, Splinters effectively are lesser Shards. It's just a terminology thing, the Shards by definition are the big 16. I don't think there is any fundamental difference except scale.

On 8/9/2019 at 6:31 PM, Scion of the Mists said:

Then yes, he is making “mini-Shards” - sort of. All Splinters (e.g. spren, seons, etc) can be though of as mini-Shards. They can have sentience/sapience, autonomy, and even their own intent. However, they’re still considered part of their parent Shard. The Stormfather is still of Honor, even if he’s a separate being. 

I think this is true, but the Stormfather probably isn't the best example since he is both a major Splinter (really powerful spren) and also the Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast, Honor's Vessel. So he's more directly connected to Honor than is usual. Syl is probably a better example (she does describe herself as a little piece of a god at one point).

When you get into the more "blended" spren types though (things like ashspren and lightspren that are more mixes of Honor and Cultivation, not as strongly aligned to one or the other as honorspren or cultivationspren) I think it's less direct. Sure, the power still "belongs" to Honor in some Spiritual Realm beyond-space-and-time sense. But the same might apply to the major Shards in relation to Adonalsium.