Offensive Progression

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

The surge of progression has two parts growth and regrowth. We’ve mostly seen regrowth in the form of healing and once we’ve seen lift use growth to grow plants. So could you use growth, not regrowth, on a person to age them, as an offensive use of progression. (For the sake of the argument let’s ignore the massive amounts of stormlight that would take.)

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

It would be easier and more effective I think, if the progression user carried a bag of seeds with them. Face an enemy, tossa handful of seeds and either have them grow into something substantial to distract an enemy or have them grow into entangling Vines to immobilize them. 

[Karger he/him]

56 minutes ago, Truthwatcher_17.5 said:

The surge of progression has two parts growth and regrowth. We’ve mostly seen regrowth in the form of healing and once we’ve seen lift use growth to grow plants. So could you use growth, not regrowth, on a person to age them, as an offensive use of progression. (For the sake of the argument let’s ignore the massive amounts of stormlight that would take.)

You are moving someone toward their spiritual ideal.  You can't age them like that unless they think of themselves as older.

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

4 minutes ago, Karger said:

You are moving someone toward their spiritual ideal.  You can't age them like that unless they think of themselves as older.

But moving towards the spiritual ideal is for regrowth, have we seen anything that says the same holds true for growth?

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

Here’s what the coppermind has, it does specify regrowth

Several manifestations of Investiture like gold Feruchemy and Regrowth can restore a damaged object or person into the ideal form as dictated by the soul.

[RShara she/her]

Aging someone isn't easy. Manipulating age, which is part of the spiritweb and isn't easy to change, has so far required something like atium, which is a god-metal, to accomplish. I highly doubt simple healing or Progression would work for it.

[Stark he/him]

I think your best bet would be to carry the seeds of those Drop-dead trees from Edgedancer.  Make them grow, then fall on your enemies.  Or vines to entangle.  Or something with thorns to pierce.

 

But I do not see any possible efficient application of progression as an offensive ability.  

 

But this is not a typically offensive ability.  The abrasion surge seems better used for offense abilities.  Make everything frictionless, so they fall and cannot recover.  Or increase the friction of everything, so everything scratches.

[Quantus he/him]

On 7/7/2019 at 5:28 PM, RShara said:

Aging someone isn't easy. Manipulating age, which is part of the spiritweb and isn't easy to change, has so far required something like atium, which is a god-metal, to accomplish. I highly doubt simple healing or Progression would work for it.

Your probably right, but on the flip side Roshar has way more abundant Investiture than Scadrial, so the Radiant's are likely to be able to pull off things that would take Shardic intervention on Scadrial.  Elscalling is one example, some radiant's can just Do It, but on Scadrial it takes an actual Shardpool.  Theoretically a Bondsmith has managed a permanent Spiritual change to most of an entire sentient Race, which would take a shard on Scadrial (and specifically one of the Shards that were already heavily Invested by creating those races)

[CalaCrisp88]

Sorry for the sort-of necro. Rather than using progression to age someone, could you make someone's cells grow rapidly out of control, essentially give them cancer or something?

[twenty second of the sun]

Honestly that's what I was imagining when I saw this thread but I don't think that would be realmatically possible.

[garlick]

Progression can be offensive. 

Oathbring spoilers

Spoiler

During the thaylen city battle. The thunderclast was scared of renerin. Ive always felt they are some of the souls that twisted so much they are hardly recognized as being a singer anymore. There has to be something to fear. I guess its possible healing the spirit web of one might do it. But I think theres more to it.

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by garlick

[Quantus he/him]

9 hours ago, garlick said:

Progression can be offensive. 

Oathbring spoilers

  Hide contents

During the thaylen city battle. The thunderclast was scared of renerin. Ive always felt they are some of the souls that twisted so much they are hardly recognized as being a singer anymore. There has to be something to fear. I guess its possible healing the spirit web of one might do it. But I think theres more to it.

 

That's an interesting possibility. 

Spoiler

I had taken it more a fear of a Radiant in general or perhaps specifically Renarin given spren's...alignment.  But it being specific to his surges is curious, and it would make tons of sense with the Fused.  Did we see Lift interact with one, for comparison?

 

On 8/27/2019 at 4:37 PM, 8giraffe8 said:

Sorry for the sort-of necro. Rather than using progression to age someone, could you make someone's cells grow rapidly out of control, essentially give them cancer or something?

I dont think so?  That sort of healing could theoretically fix cancer if it were from environmental sources but would/could struggle with innate/inborn things like genetic disorders.  If it cant fix a genetic disorder or genetic cancer, I dont think it has enough re-write capability to give a person cancer that they never previously had, though if they'd treated it with drugs or surgery it might give it back.  And a very subtle user of Soulcasting certainly could do it. 

Closest thing I see being possible would be to hardcore convince the target something was already true, to the point of changing their personal Identity to include it, then hit them with Progression, and you might be able to invent it.  But we'd be talking about faking the illness in say a King and then (over the course of probably years) working him over such that the illness itself becomes a central aspect of his whole self-image and identity (which can happen).  But there are far easier ways to kill a person. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Quantus

[mathwin]

Carry around seeds of some of the plants from First of the Sun.  Just have to make sure you set them on fire when you're done or risk ecological disaster.

[Scion of the Mists]

23 hours ago, garlick said:

Progression can be offensive. 

I always thought that the thunderclast was afraid of Renarin's Illumination powers.  Glys said that Renarin can "make it go with light."  (OB Ch 120)

[ScavellTane]

Quote

Renarin raised his fist and summoned Stormlight. It glowed as a powerful beacon. And …

Note that Renarin 'summoned' Stormlight not breathe in Stormlight.

[Inky]

1 hour ago, ScavellTane said:

Note that Renarin 'summoned' Stormlight not breathe in Stormlight.

Hoo boy, that's a rabbit hole waiting to happen

Edited August 29, 2019 by Inky

[garlick]

1 hour ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I always thought that the thunderclast was afraid of Renarin's Illumination powers.  Glys said that Renarin can "make it go with light."  (OB Ch 120)

I thought something was wrong with his illumination surge. He had never been able to make it work with tips from shallan. I haven't been able to make up my mind if its because it works differently like dalinars adhesion surge and kaladins. Or if it was glyses corruption and replaced by the void surge of illumination which made the planes of glass he got his predictions from. My mind leans to corruption so I didnt even think it could be his illumination.

[Quantus he/him]

2 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I always thought that the thunderclast was afraid of Renarin's Illumination powers.  Glys said that Renarin can "make it go with light."  (OB Ch 120)

I took GLys's meaning to be light=Stormlight, but that could still indicate either surge.  But so far his version of the illumination Surge hasnt shown any active effects like that, just the precognition.  

39 minutes ago, garlick said:

I thought something was wrong with his illumination surge. He had never been able to make it work with tips from shallan. I haven't been able to make up my mind if its because it works differently like dalinars adhesion surge and kaladins. Or if it was glyses corruption and replaced by the void surge of illumination which made the planes of glass he got his predictions from. My mind leans to corruption so I didnt even think it could be his illumination.

Prevailing theory Ive seen is based on the Voidbinding chart, which shows each of the orders having the same combined glyphs, but in the voidbinding version half of the glyph is inverted.  The interpretation being that each true Voidbinder like Renarin will have one surge that acts the same as it's Radiant counterpart (progression for Renarin), and one that will be somehow different (Illumination for him).