Book 4 Predictions

[Caesura]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

She is getting a novella(like Lift did).

Heck yeah! I remember hearing that now

[Goatbringer]

16 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

However, on the topic of Kaladin and Jasnah I disagree.

Highly agree on this point. While I get that BrandoSando is kind of conservative when it comes to this stuff, I'd very much like to have some more outside the box thinking when it comes to the sexuality of characters, especially main characters. Let's see something non-heteronormative. Let's see Jasnah and Kal hook up despite their age difference. Let's see them have a casual relationship without it being formal. Let's see something other than the 'prim-and-proper' Alethi Shallan/Adolin and Dalinar/Navani stuff where it's all about marriage and propriety. Let's have some new dynamics at play.

17 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

We all "know" that Kaladin is going to swear his Fourth Ideal in this book; Jasnah may provide a way for Kaladin to swear it without Lirin dying. But on the note of Lirin dying...

On this point, I'd love for it to happen in the first half, even the first part but that may be wishful thinking. I know Brandon is self-aware enough that he wants to start trying to flip tropes he has come to be known for on their head, so having Kal have his big power-up moment come earlier on in the book rather than at a crucial, climactic point at the end would be great. 

On this note, what makes you think that Jasnah is going to provide Kaladin a way to swear the Fourth Ideal? 

[Use the Falchion]

No, but she was attracted to Wax, and Wax to her. The age wouldn't have been a problem. It was that Marasi reminded Wax too much of Lessie, and THAT was the hurdle he couldn't get over. (Sorry my quote thing messed up, so I can't quote your words here. My computer's weird. Regardless, you know what I'm talking about).

17 hours ago, Karger said:

Also I am 70% sure she is ace.

We don't know for sure, and there's no harm in speculating either way. The point wasn't about her sexuality. That's a different conversation. It was about the age difference and the double standard we have for it. 

 

17 hours ago, Karger said:

I am betting your wrong on the grounds that I think a large number of the fans would be pissed off by such a casual and meaningless death.

I mean, that's war, and it's not like Sanderson always pulls his punches (Wheel of Time deaths, Eshonai, Mistborn Era 1 deaths, Alcatraz). If Sanderson deems that a sudden and jarring death is necessary to showcase the brutality of war, Sanderson will kill that character. But that's not the point I was trying to make. 

Lirin's death would only be casual and meaningless if Kaladin doesn't swear his Fourth Ideal by it. My point was, what if the book opens by Kaladin rescuing the general, but in order to do so Lirin has to sacrifice himself and Kaladin swears the Fourth Ideal. That's an intense and brutal way to start a book, but then we could spend the rest of the book exploring how and when to implement the ideal. The more I think about it, the more it makes a sort of brutal sense. We already know that Kaladin knows what the ideal is, but we need him to believe it. If it is what many people speculate - that he needs to save those he can over those he can't (or some variation of the gist), then Lirin saying "this general can save more lives than me, save HIM" might be the push he needs. 

Again, I'm not saying it WILL happen - that's why I want Jasnah and Kaladin to at least have some sort of bond besides vitriolic allies, so that Kaladin doesn't have to learn the lesson via his father's death - but I believe it's more of a possibility than you're giving it credit for. 

9 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

Let's see something non-heteronormative. Let's see Jasnah and Kal hook up despite their age difference. Let's see them have a casual relationship without it being formal. Let's see something other than the 'prim-and-proper' Alethi Shallan/Adolin and Dalinar/Navani stuff where it's all about marriage and propriety. Let's have some new dynamics at play.

LET'S DO IT (although I also want them to get married eventually so the title The Way of Kings becomes sort of prophetic in regards to Kaladin. The way of kings is the way of servitude, saving lives, and leadership; the three lives Kaladin lives during Book 1). But yeah, Jasnah doesn't want to be beholden to a man, and Kaladin probably isn't looking for long-term stuff during a war, so let them keep it casual!

9 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

On this point, I'd love for it to happen in the first half, even the first part but that may be wishful thinking. I know Brandon is self-aware enough that he wants to start trying to flip tropes he has come to be known for on their head, so having Kal have his big power-up moment come earlier on in the book rather than at a crucial, climactic point at the end would be great. 

EXACTLY! Then the rest of Kaladin's arc could be him trying to parse out what that Ideal really means in the messy reality of this war. Who are the people he "can't save," and who determines that? Who needs saving, and how much effort should Kaladin put in to save them? Questions like that, that can't be tackled so easily can all be asked AFTER the Fourth Ideal.

9 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

On this note, what makes you think that Jasnah is going to provide Kaladin a way to swear the Fourth Ideal? 

Jasnah is a very logic-driven person when it comes to matters outside of her family. I believe she that if she and Kaladin spent enough time together, she could teach him to grow those calluses Lirin wanted him to grow. Maybe it would be because they are in a war, maybe it would involve Jasnah admitting that she nearly had Aesudan assassinated to protect her family and the morality of that.

I just think that the two have a lot they could potentially learn from one another and even more potential interaction points, and those two combined would create a scenario in which Kaladin doesn't need to sacrifice someone important or have a big climactic moment to say his Fourth Ideal. With Lirin dying, it could be a brutal and heartbreaking cold open to the book that sets the tone; with Jasnah, it could be a quiet acceptance of what he must do along with the solemn resolution and acknowledgement that he can do it.

[Lightwing8888]

9 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

Highly agree on this point. While I get that BrandoSando is kind of conservative when it comes to this stuff, I'd very much like to have some more outside the box thinking when it comes to the sexuality of characters, especially main characters. Let's see something non-heteronormative. Let's see Jasnah and Kal hook up despite their age difference. Let's see them have a casual relationship without it being formal. Let's see something other than the 'prim-and-proper' Alethi Shallan/Adolin and Dalinar/Navani stuff where it's all about marriage and propriety. Let's have some new dynamics at play.

On this point, I'd love for it to happen in the first half, even the first part but that may be wishful thinking. I know Brandon is self-aware enough that he wants to start trying to flip tropes he has come to be known for on their head, so having Kal have his big power-up moment come earlier on in the book rather than at a crucial, climactic point at the end would be great. 

Although I agree with you on the whole trope-changing bit, I think Brandon's too aware of his characters to do that with Kaladin+Jasnah. They just aren't a good

Jasnah is the perfect Alethi lighteyed woman (except for the heresy+swordplay), and I don't think that Kaladin would be anything more than civil toward her at this point in his life. Besides that, Jasnah is very aware of social+political standings, and though Kaladin is a Radiant, with herself being one I doubt she would feel that him being a knight is enough for her. I don't think we'll get a Jasnah romantic arc until the back half, if at all. Although it wouldn't surprise me if she used her single-ness for political reasons.

I agree about Kal with Shardplate, but Brandon has been working up to this moment for too long to make it casual. I honestly would probably be a little disappointed if it wasn't on the scale of the fight with Szeth at the end of WoR at least. 

 

[Use the Falchion]

13 minutes ago, Lightwing8888 said:

Besides that, Jasnah is very aware of social+political standings, and though Kaladin is a Radiant, with herself being one I doubt she would feel that him being a knight is enough for her.

Kaladin has been educated, is/has been a soldier, is in charge of one of the most socially and culturally diverse and open-minded societies on Roshar now; he's saved Jasnah's uncle, her cousins, (her ward*) her brother and his knights saved her nephew. Kaladin has been a high ranking darkeyes, a slave, captain to the Highprince's guard, and a Knight Radiant. Now he' salso a high-ranking lighteyes with lands.* If anyone was to come even remotely close to Jasnah's standards for a significant other (assuming she has a list of requirements for a significant other...), it would be Kaladin. 

23 minutes ago, Lightwing8888 said:

Jasnah is the perfect Alethi lighteyed woman (except for the heresy+swordplay)

Those are two BIG things for many lighteyes. But Kaladin wouldn't mind the sword aspect at all, given how he allows women into Bridge 4 and the fact many Radiants will eventually use swords. As for the heresy, well, for Kaladin (who seems to be pretty agnostic), that would just be another difference of perspective about Honor and Adonalsium.

 

Kaladin and Jasnah COULD be good for one-another. They just need to spend more time together. And what better way to get to know somebody than on a life-or-death mission to stop enemy forces from winning an arms race with the help of a spy, some refugees, this moody Windrunner, and your mother (aka my Group One prediction for Stormlight 4 is: Jasnah, Eshonai, Rlain, Kaladin, and Navani)?

 

13 minutes ago, Lightwing8888 said:

I don't think we'll get a Jasnah romantic arc until the back half, if at all. Although it wouldn't surprise me if she used her single-ness for political reasons.

That's probably more accurate, but that's no fun! 

 

*Okay they saved each other. 

*I honestly doubt the lighteyes ranking will mean anything going forward, given that pretty much anyone can become a Radiant now. But the lands might matter. Maybe. ...yeah, probably not either...

[Karger]

10 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

Let's see Jasnah and Kal hook up despite their age difference. Let's see them have a casual relationship without it being formal. Let's see something other than the 'prim-and-proper' Alethi Shallan/Adolin and Dalinar/Navani stuff where it's all about marriage and propriety

Kaladin is kind of prudish and Jasnah is all business. 

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

No, but she was attracted to Wax, and Wax to her

AoL annotations

Quote

There’s a tiny bit of sexual tension between the two of them. It’s not supposed to be very strong, as Lessie’s death hovers over Wax like a shadow. He’s not really looking for romance, and I didn’t want to push the book too much in that direction.

I’m assuming that people will pick up on Marasi as a romantic interest from the get-go. And, of course, I therefore hope that they find themselves a little bit upended when Wax stubbornly ignores, or resists, the story cues that he’s supposed to be falling for Marasi. Because so far, he’s really not. Though who she is looks good on paper for him, it’s just not right, and he knows it. Sometimes in real life, you put two people together and they start dating. They seem perfect for one another, but for some reason there’s nothing there.

Part of it is the hero worship that Marasi has. He can sense it, and that makes him uncomfortable. He worries that she’s interested in him merely because she has read so much about Wax the lawkeeper. Unfortunately, he’s right. She doesn’t know him. She could fall for the real him—and she’s in the process of doing that—but from his perspective there’s still something wrong with this relationship. Too many things wrong, I should say.

 

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Lirin's death would only be casual and meaningless if Kaladin doesn't swear his Fourth Ideal by it. My point was, what if the book opens by Kaladin rescuing the general, but in order to do so Lirin has to sacrifice himself and Kaladin swears the Fourth Ideal. That's an intense and brutal way to start a book, but then we could spend the rest of the book exploring how and when to implement the ideal. The more I think about it, the more it makes a sort of brutal sense.

That might work better but I am not sure that it is "best."

57 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

If anyone was to come even remotely close to Jasnah's standards for a significant other (assuming she has a list of requirements for a significant other...), it would be Kaladin. 

Not saying that they are the same but on paper Amaram had most of the same stuff and we know how that worked out.

58 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

That's probably more accurate, but that's no fun! 

Oh, go write a shipfic.

[NameIess]

11 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

Highly agree on this point. While I get that BrandoSando is kind of conservative when it comes to this stuff, I'd very much like to have some more outside the box thinking when it comes to the sexuality of characters, especially main characters. Let's see something non-heteronormative. Let's see Jasnah and Kal hook up despite their age difference. Let's see them have a casual relationship without it being formal. Let's see something other than the 'prim-and-proper' Alethi Shallan/Adolin and Dalinar/Navani stuff where it's all about marriage and propriety. Let's have some new dynamics at play.

I think Syl would probably not like Kaladin getting into a relationship without oaths. Even if she didn't, Kaladin and Jasnah are basically the last people I'd expect to have a relationship that's not "prim and proper"

[Goatbringer]

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

I think Syl would probably not like Kaladin getting into a relationship without oaths. Even if she didn't, Kaladin and Jasnah are basically the last people I'd expect to have a relationship that's not "prim and proper"

Good point about Syl, but she did encourage Kal to explore his options with that pretty ardent in the first half of OB. 

And hey, Jasnah is a heretic who hires assassins to keep an eye on her evil sister in law. Who knows what freaky stuff she's into. 

Either way I feel like I've hijacked this thread with my Jasadin shipping. Apologies.

[NameIess]

13 minutes ago, Goatbringer said:

And hey, Jasnah is a heretic who hires assassins to keep an eye on her evil sister in law. Who knows what freaky stuff she's into. 

She's also an extremely talented scholar, who almost killed her own cousin in cold blood to protect the Kholin line. I don't think she would pursue a relationship with Kaladin that could undermine her reputation as queen.

[Use the Falchion]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

AoL annotations

Quote

There’s a tiny bit of sexual tension between the two of them. It’s not supposed to be very strong, as Lessie’s death hovers over Wax like a shadow. He’s not really looking for romance, and I didn’t want to push the book too much in that direction.

I’m assuming that people will pick up on Marasi as a romantic interest from the get-go. And, of course, I therefore hope that they find themselves a little bit upended when Wax stubbornly ignores, or resists, the story cues that he’s supposed to be falling for Marasi. Because so far, he’s really not. Though who she is looks good on paper for him, it’s just not right, and he knows it. Sometimes in real life, you put two people together and they start dating. They seem perfect for one another, but for some reason there’s nothing there.

Part of it is the hero worship that Marasi has. He can sense it, and that makes him uncomfortable. He worries that she’s interested in him merely because she has read so much about Wax the lawkeeper. Unfortunately, he’s right. She doesn’t know him. She could fall for the real him—and she’s in the process of doing that—but from his perspective there’s still something wrong with this relationship. Too many things wrong, I should say.

 

Hey I didn't see anything about age in those annotations. So again, age wasn't the problem. 

 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Oh, go write a shipfic

Because speculating is supposed to be 100% serious, all of the time?  Yeah, no thanks. I'll keep shipping character I think could work well together in books so long as it can still be a part of the book. 

2 hours ago, Nameless said:

I think Syl would probably not like Kaladin getting into a relationship without oaths. Even if she didn't, Kaladin and Jasnah are basically the last people I'd expect to have a relationship that's not "prim and proper"

Syl, the spren that encouraged Kaladin to have what basically amounts to AN AFFAIR with Shallan? The same Syl that encouraged Kaladin to hook up with the ardent? Syl would want two things from Kaladin 1) that he keep any promises he makes in the relationship (which you don't have to be married to say "I won't cheat on you or do XYZ thing that breaks your personal boundary) and 2) be happy. If Jasnah makes him happy and he can keep his promises, Syl most likely won't have a problem with it. 

56 minutes ago, Nameless said:

She's also an extremely talented scholar, who almost killed her own cousin in cold blood to protect the Kholin line. I don't think she would pursue a relationship with Kaladin that could undermine her reputation as queen.

It could also help her reputation as queen. Stories of peasants being raised to the level of royalty go a long way in pretty much every setting (the real world as well as fiction). Jasnah could surely manipulate that. There's also the fact that Jasnah knows Kaladin is a KR and can't break oaths without losing his powers. So if he's one of her biggest worries, then all she needs to do is make sure he has an oath that permanently bonds him to her family. Like...a wedding oath...? It wouldn't contradict the oaths he's already made to protect the Kholin's, but now he has to keep it for life instead of "until I retire."

Not saying this can or should happen, just that it would be a way for Jasnah to manipulate Kaladin's Magical Oath Powers against him. 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Not saying that they are the same but on paper Amaram had most of the same stuff and we know how that worked out.

Ah yes, I remember hearing about Amaram the slave, who grew up as a high ranking darkeyes and the son of a surgeon. Amaram was a hypocrite who tried to be the "ideal Alethi." Kaladin tries not to be a hypocrite and most definitely doesn't care about Alethi culture as something to defend. He's influenced by it, yes, and it's ingrained into his being (as culture is), but he's not trying to be the pinnacle of that culture. Kaladin proved he was different in their first interaction by noting that genocide was a terrible idea. Had that been Amaram, do you think he would have stood up to Jasnah? No, he would't have, and no, they're not the same - they're NOTHING like each other, on paper or in person. 

1 hour ago, Goatbringer said:

Good point about Syl, but she did encourage Kal to explore his options with that pretty ardent in the first half of OB. 

And hey, Jasnah is a heretic who hires assassins to keep an eye on her evil sister in law. Who knows what freaky stuff she's into. 

Either way I feel like I've hijacked this thread with my Jasadin shipping. Apologies.

Don't take all the blame! I'm the one keeping the arguments going (yay Jasnadin buddy!). But we can re-rail this! How does shipping work into Stormlight 4 predictions? 

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

It could also help her reputation as queen. Stories of peasants being raised to the level of royalty go a long way in pretty much every setting (the real world as well as fiction). Jasnah could surely manipulate that. There's also the fact that Jasnah knows Kaladin is a KR and can't break oaths without losing his powers. So if he's one of her biggest worries, then all she needs to do is make sure he has an oath that permanently bonds him to her family. Like...a wedding oath...? It wouldn't contradict the oaths he's already made to protect the Kholin's, but now he has to keep it for life instead of "until I retire."

I wasn't arguing against Kaladin and Jasnah having a relationship. I was arguing against Kaladin and Jasnah having a relationship without oaths.

[Karger]

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Hey I didn't see anything about age in those annotations. So again, age wasn't the problem. 

Maybe I am reading things between the lines but "it is just not right" could imply that their relationship is inappropriate because he is twice her age.

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Not saying this can or should happen, just that it would be a way for Jasnah to manipulate Kaladin's Magical Oath Powers against him. 

because that is healthy.

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Stories of peasants being raised to the level of royalty go a long way in pretty much every setting (the real world as well as fiction

Not really.  Most people don't generally take kindly to outsiders moving in.  Shallan is a pariah in WoR because she snagged Adolin.

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Kaladin proved he was different in their first interaction by noting that genocide was a terrible idea. Had that been Amaram, do you think he would have stood up to Jasnah? No, he would't have, and no, they're not the same - they're NOTHING like each other, on paper or in person. 

They are both as you put it...

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

has been educated, is/has been a soldier

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

is in charge of one of the most socially and culturally diverse and open-minded societies on Roshar now(sort of.  Amaram can read and their are female members of SoH for example)

 

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

he's saved Jasnah's uncle, her cousins, (her ward*)

He is a confidant to Dalinar and a friend to Adolin...  He also looked out for Adolin and kept him from embarrassing himself.

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

captain to the Highprince's guard, and a Knight Radiant

He was both for a while...

6 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

he' salso a high-ranking lighteyes with lands

Yeah.  My point is just that Jasnah is not impressed by military accomplishments and does not really seem to care about positions.  She admires people who are competent and genuine traits that definitely pertain to Kaladin but are also really general and can be found in a lot of people.  Including people who are not way younger then her.  She also literally attracted Ivory because she does not act out of impulse or emotion so I don't think a fling is going to happen.

 

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Don't take all the blame! I'm the one keeping the arguments going (yay Jasnadin buddy!). But we can re-rail this! How does shipping work into Stormlight 4 predictions? 

More importantly.  Do you have any other ships?  Ones I can actually get behind?

[Pete]

Am I the only one who just cannot imagine a relationship between Kaladin and Jasnah?? 

Maaaaybe I could see Kaladin having an interest in Jasnah, but not the other way. Every time I've read her on page, she comes across as someone who is not interested in pursuing her sexuality in a physical sense. She surely uses her looks to manipulate others. I've always thought she would be gay or asexual, but more than anything I don't feel like I need to see a love story for her.

She is an excellent character without a partner.

Don't understand why we HAVE to have a relationship for every major character...

[NameIess]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Don't understand why we HAVE to have a relationship for every major character...

Because shipping! And because it's a traditional part of "happily ever after"

[Use the Falchion]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

Maybe I am reading things between the lines but "it is just not right" could imply that their relationship is inappropriate because he is twice her age.

Nah, Sanderson isn't shy when age comes up as a problem or a conflict (again, Breeze and Allrianne). If it was JUST age, he would have made it far more explicit in the book.

3 hours ago, Karger said:

She also literally attracted Ivory because she does not act out of impulse or emotion so I don't think a fling is going to happen.

Jasnah's Cool Down Hug to Renarin was completely motivated by her idea to use him as a spy against Odium, assuming that's possible. No, Jasnah has emotions and is driven by them, a point she admits to herself when talking to Ivory. 

Also, flings and FWB seem to like the "no personal attachments" aspect, so under your "Jasnah doesn't act out of impulse or emotion," logic, a fling would be perfect for her. No oaths need to be made, no emotions need to be involved, no feelings need to be shared. 

3 hours ago, Karger said:

She admires people who are competent and genuine traits that definitely pertain to Kaladin but are also really general and can be found in a lot of people.

Given Jasnah's limited social circle, I don't think that list is as large as you think it is. Also, I don't think Amaram was really in charge of one of the most socially and culturally diverse groups in Roshar. The KR most definitely weren't that for his short stint as "leader." Amaram's army most definitely wasn't. And the Sons of Honor don't seem to be either - they're Vorin fundamentalists. So when was he in charge of a group like Bridge 4 agaiin?

3 hours ago, Karger said:

Do you have any other ships?

Of course.

3 hours ago, Karger said:

Ones I can actually get behind?

Probably not. Once characters settle down into relationships (or at least make what they want out of a relationship clear) I tend to let it be, for better or worse. There aren't many unpaired major characters in Sanderson's works right now, so my shipping options are kind of low. 

I'm not opposed to other Kaladin ships either (so long as it's not Shallan or Adolin - let the couple be happy, Storm it!), I just don't like them as much as I do Jasnadin. 

Maybe you'd like my post-timeskip Renarin x Lift ship (Renarin teaches Lift how to read, Lift gives Renarin food as a meaningful gesture. Renarin takes the food but doesn't know how much it means to Lift until way later) but I doubt it. 

 

2 minutes ago, Pete said:

Am I the only one who just cannot imagine a relationship between Kaladin and Jasnah?? 

Maaaaybe I could see Kaladin having an interest in Jasnah, but not the other way. Every time I've read her on page, she comes across as someone who is not interested in pursuing her sexuality in a physical sense. She surely uses her looks to manipulate others. I've always thought she would be gay or asexual, but more than anything I don't feel like I need to see a love story for her.

She is an excellent character without a partner.

Don't understand why we HAVE to have a relationship for every major character...

You're not the only one, don't worry. And the view of her being gay or ace is also a very common one. I just don't think that we should ride off her lack of having a current relationship as a lack of interest until she explicitly says so; and it's fun to speculate!

The TL;DR of why I think Jasnah and Kaladin work well together is because they have a lot of points in common (Gavinor and Elhokar, the Knights Radiant, pure hatred of Amaram, House Kholin, and the Parshendi) as well as a lot they can learn from each other (Jasnah can teach Kaladin how to see the larger picture and grow those calluses his father always wanted him to, Kaladin can teach Jasnah that emotion isn't a terrible thing in a war, how to used that to bring people together, and how to lead (not just rule) people around her). This would mean that Jasnah would have to respect Kaladin as a person and not just a KR, and Kaladin would have to see that Jasnah isn't the Ice Queen she makes herself out to be. Jasnah could respect Kaladin's progressive nature with Bridge 4, and Kaladin could respect Jasnah's intelligence and wit without being intimidated. Besides, Jasnah is easily one of the most capable people in Roshar, so Kaladin wouldn't have to worry about defending or protecting her as much as he would someone like Tarah or Rysn.

Because relationships are fun and can bring an extra dimension to characters and conflict (Jake and Amy in Brooklyn 99, Leslie and Ben in Parks & Rec, Obi-Wan & Satine in The Clone Wars). 

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Because shipping! And because it's a traditional part of "happily ever after"

Speak for yourself lol! Just because I want them together doesn't mean I expect either of them to live to Book 10. 

 

So, I guess to re-rail this thread, (again, I'm sorry for derailing it everyone), my predictions for Book 4:

Jasnah and Kaladin enter a relationship: 10% - look, just because I like the ship doesn't mean I think it has a high chance of happening. A Knight and a Queen/Lady is also a pretty common fantasy trope, and Sanderson remixing it here would be pretty interesting. 

Lirin dies before Part 1 ends, allowing Kaladin to say the Fourth Ideal in the first part of the book: 25% - Man, THAT would be a start to the book. I don't want it, but I could see it happening and breaking our hearts as it happens.

Vasher and Azure finally meet: 50% - This could easily be a Book 5 plot, or even Second Half plot, but we'll probably have our hands full with Shinovar in the next book, so I think it's important to be done here.

Adolin awakens Maya: 70% - I think Adolin will awaken Maya...with Awakening. That's part of why I think Vasher and Azure need to meet and why they're so important in this series. Adolin needs to learn how to use Breath/Investiture to fully reconstitute Maya, and Breaths - or finding a way to convert Breaths into pure Investiture - is the perfect way to go about it.

Shallan (or at least someone) will try to bond Sja-Anat: 75% If Sja-Anat really wants to switch sides, I think she'd want a Radiant-like bond with someone. And if my theory is correct, that Adolin and Shallan are the duo sent to hunt her down, it'll either be one of them or the other. Then again, maybe Adolin uses Sja-Anat's Corruption power (or Voidlight) in order to awaken Maya...hmm...

Shallan will be revealed to be pregnant: 80% - I have a theory that Shallan and Adolin's child will be Odium's Champion. But for that to happen, we would need Shallan to have a child first. So I think Shallan will reveal that sometime in Book 4. 

[Goatbringer]

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Shallan will be revealed to be pregnant: 80% - I have a theory that Shallan and Adolin's child will be Odium's Champion. But for that to happen, we would need Shallan to have a child first. So I think Shallan will reveal that sometime in Book 4. 

I think I agree that there's like an 80% chance this will happen, but man... I will not be interested in this when it does inevitably show up. Not your theory, by the way, that's pretty hardcore, just Shallan becoming pregnant. Whatever happens in this book I don't want it to be predictable, and I feel like that's the inevitable next step, unfortunately - like a TV show that doesn't have anywhere else to go with two characters (looking at YOU, Brooklyn Nine-Nine). Adolin and Shallan are so interesting on their own, to have two characters just become parents seems so... uninteresting to me. I dunno.

I have a feeling this will happen, but I'd love for it to happen in a timeskip - like when we come back to Roshar in book 6, we have a nine-year-old heir to the Kholin princedom traipsing about. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Goatbringer

[Goatbringer]

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Adolin awakens Maya: 70% - I think Adolin will awaken Maya...with Awakening. That's part of why I think Vasher and Azure need to meet and why they're so important in this series. Adolin needs to learn how to use Breath/Investiture to fully reconstitute Maya, and Breaths - or finding a way to convert Breaths into pure Investiture - is the perfect way to go about it.

Legit this is cool AF. I would love to see this. Nice way for BS to kind of give a wink and a nod to the people who are saying that they like him as a non-Radiant and don't want to see Maya revived. 

[Goatbringer]

Also! (Sorry for three posts in a row) It's less than 200 days until Rhythm of War drops! Think Team Dragonsteel has any little bits or bobs to mark the occasion? Like maybe the North American cover reveal or a Reddit update?

[BasementDwellingRadiant]

2 hours ago, Goatbringer said:

I think I agree that there's like an 80% chance this will happen, but man... I will not be interested in this when it does inevitably show up. Not your theory, by the way, that's pretty hardcore, just Shallan becoming pregnant. Whatever happens in this book I don't want it to be predictable, and I feel like that's the inevitable next step, unfortunately - like a TV show that doesn't have anywhere else to go with two characters (looking at YOU, Brooklyn Nine-Nine). Adolin and Shallan are so interesting on their own, to have two characters just become parents seems so... uninteresting to me. I dunno.

I have a feeling this will happen, but I'd love for it to happen in a timeskip - like when we come back to Roshar in book 6, we have a nine-year-old heir to the Kholin princedom traipsing about. 

Ugg... Part of me really wants a Shadolin baby running around(just to see how things play out with them being very much not prepared for it and as a result needing to grow). Maybe that could be Shallan's last truth? And, because I want an Oroden, Gavinor, and Shallan/Adolin's kid bash brothers thing going on in the latter half of the series. But, dear Honor PLEASE! I don't want there to be a bunch of "Giving mommy a break" lines in there when Adolin inevitably is put in charge of caring for it because Shallan is busy doing Ghostblood and Radiant stuff. I just... hate... those comments. It's not babysitting if it's your own kid. It's being a parent.

 

Also, love the idea of Awakening Maya. Brandon did - if I remember correctly - say something along the lines of "it would take more than just swearing the oaths."

Lirin, I desperately want him to live. I know it's unlikely. But... fingers crossed. Might be interesting to find out we were theorizing in the wrong direction this whole time, and it's someone from Bridge Four(or elsewhere) that Kaladin can't save when he finally ascends to the next level of Radiancy. Then, getting a scene where Kal is breaking down, and Lirin understands his son's calluses aren't anywhere near as deep as he thought. So, bending down on eye level with Kal, he helps him through swearing the fourth Oath. Or... something. I do think Lirin should be involved in Kal swearing the next Oath... I just don't want him to die. We haven't seen enough of Kal's family on screen yet.

Edited May 1, 2020 by BasementDwellingRadiant

[Goatbringer]

17 minutes ago, BasementDwellingRadiant said:

"Giving mommy a break" lines in there when Adolin inevitably is put in charge of caring for it because Shallan is busy doing Ghostblood and Radiant stuff.

Vomit. Much as I love Shallan, she would absolutely be a 'wine mom'. That being said, I think Adolin would be a caring, attentive father. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Goatbringer

[BloomAgeOne]

7 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Because relationships are fun and can bring an extra dimension to characters and conflict (Obi-Wan & Satine in The Clone Wars). 

Adolin awakens Maya: 70% - I think Adolin will awaken Maya...with Awakening. That's part of why I think Vasher and Azure need to meet and why they're so important in this series. Adolin needs to learn how to use Breath/Investiture to fully reconstitute Maya, and Breaths - or finding a way to convert Breaths into pure Investiture - is the perfect way to go about it.

I really like the Awakening idea! I would probably have expected more of the large Cosmere cross-overs such as people learning magic from other planets to happen in the second half of Stormlight and the future Mistborn Eras, but Adolin using it to awaken Maya sounds pretty cool.

Also, as a side, I always felt that Obi-Wan and Satine's relationship wasn't quite as good as Obi-Wan's Legends relationship with Siri Tachi, but that's a bit off topic...

1 hour ago, Goatbringer said:

I think Adolin would be a caring, attentive father. 

I agree with this as well! Particularly given his difficult childhood, Adolin seems like he would make a great father. I would probably prefer for Adolin and Shallan to not have children until the gap between books 5 and 6, because it would limit their involvement in the greater conflict a little bit, with Adolin wanting to spend time with his child/ren. This would be a bit easier, as the primary/focus characters are going to switch up a bit in the second set of 5 Stormlight books.

[USS bridge four]

I currently can't think of any predictions but I would like to see Tarah in this book and lots more Rlain.

Why is Lirin always the one that has to die for Kaladin? Both his parents are still alive maybe Brandon will leave his parents alive just to change it up a bit. Also I'm genuinely curious when yinz use asexual do y'all also mean aromantic as well for Jasnah?

Also I don't know if I used those to terms right. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by USS bridge four

[Diomedes]

This book is going to be the darkest Brandon has written to date. It`s gonna be a tragedy. 

Shallan kills Pattern ( He said multiple times, she would kill him) and changes sides to Odium.   

The book starts with Adolin and Shallan having a baby. 

As the Alethi armies are reconquering Alethkar, they will commit multiple atrocities (this was forshadowed by Dalinar`s flashback chapters). 

This will cause a rift in their coalition between Dalinar and the rest of the Alethi.  The old houses around Sadeas will betray Queen Jasnah and change sides to Odium. The Ardents will play a decisive role persuading them to betray the heretic Queen. 

On the upside a lot of Listeners will change over to Team Honor led by Rlain and Venli. 

Adolin sides with Shallan and the other Alethi. He will resurrect Maya, but his oaths will be bound to Odium like Szeths oaths are bound to Dalinar. 

RoW will be Adolin`s book. It will tragically describe his path towards Odium.  

 

[Karger]

15 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Jasnah's Cool Down Hug to Renarin was completely motivated by her idea to use him as a spy against Odium, assuming that's possible. No, Jasnah has emotions and is driven by them, a point she admits to herself when talking to Ivory. 

Sure but she prefers to temper them by logic. 

15 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Also, flings and FWB seem to like the "no personal attachments" aspect, so under your "Jasnah doesn't act out of impulse or emotion," logic, a fling would be perfect for her. No oaths need to be made, no emotions need to be involved, no feelings need to be shared. 

Because that is how a fling works.  Also Jasnah does not like to act based on impulse does not mean that it is sometimes necessary.  Her hugging Renarin was understanding that she had no good options at that point and so she just made a decision hoping it was the right one.  Let me put it this way.  Can you see Jasnah at a bar looking for a one night stand?  I defo can't.

15 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

So when was he in charge of a group like Bridge 4 agaiin?

My point was that Amaram did have a verity of accomplishments that did not impress Jasnah in the least.

15 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Maybe you'd like my post-timeskip Renarin x Lift ship (Renarin teaches Lift how to read, Lift gives Renarin food as a meaningful gesture. Renarin takes the food but doesn't know how much it means to Lift until way later) but I doubt it. 

I am actually 70% sure that Renarin is gay and is going to hook up with that hot Theylen prince(the one Dalinar beat up).  I also ship Lift with Gawx(they are actually friends and the same age).

15 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

You're not the only one, don't worry. And the view of her being gay or ace is also a very common one. I just don't think that we should ride off her lack of having a current relationship as a lack of interest until she explicitly says so; and it's fun to speculate!

She explicitly does not discuss her sexuality.

Quote

Questioner

Does/is Jasnah gay?

Brandon Sanderson

Jasnah prefers to keep her sexuality a subject of non-discussion. That is how Jasnah would answer. She would rather not discuss her sexuality.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

 

15 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

as a lot they can learn from each other

I actually could get behind them as a team up.  I actually really like complex nonromantic relationships(hands off my platonic ships thank you).

8 hours ago, BloomAgeOne said:

Also, as a side, I always felt that Obi-Wan and Satine's relationship wasn't quite as good as Obi-Wan's Legends relationship with Siri Tachi, but that's a bit off topic...

I love Satine.  It is a great what if and it shows that some things are more important then just shiping people.  I also love that they respect each other's ideals so much.

1 hour ago, Diomedes said:

This book is going to be the darkest Brandon has written to date. It`s gonna be a tragedy. 

Dam!  That is over 100 easily.

 

[joesleepsalot]

Hmm... because Jasnah is fairly predictable as a character, I think she will lapse and have an “omg Kaladin is hot” moment... giving her more depth. Let’s be honest, guaranteed Kaladin would go for her based on looks alone lol. Keeping her the way she currently is without variance seems sorta cliche... whether or not anything lasts, I strongly think her and Kaladin are gonna get involved, just my $0.02.

I don’t think Kaladin will lose anymore family... for heaven’s sake I hope not, he deserves a break. He loses everything. I could see Lirin binding one of the other two greatspren...but obviously he’d need more page time. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by joesleepsalot