worldbuilding Fantasy World planning

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

Well, failed off how exactly these enchantments would be used, I only intended to say that innate provides the S connections that would be needed in order to enchant things. Someone has invested magic like fire or healing, pluck out that strong and attach it to whatever you want to enchant. And if everyone has innate magic to some degree, though most commonly on the weaker side, thenthere are ways to enchant things more commonly than 'once in a blue moon sor ultra rare' innate magic. 

Unless you want enchantments to be imbuing a spell into an object, which doesn't seem likely since I believe you shot down the idea early on. 

Does an enchantment become part of an object's soul? Or is it like a coating that could be easily removed if you enough experience?

[xinoehp512 he/him]

1 minute ago, ZincAboutIt said:

I am assuming you would need to "charge" this thing for it to work repeatedly? Also, putting the spell on the person - via a tattoo I assume? A brand? Carving it into their skin? (Not opposed to any of these things just curious)

I was talking about what I personally think (in general) an enchantment is, actually. The spell is something extra that's added.

1 minute ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

OK. but what would it do? We keep talking about this but maybe we all have different ideas as to what we could do with enchantments.... I thought making something burn people on contact would be super simple but you obviously don't think it would be possible at all..... so, what can enchantments do? 

That actually could be possible, I think. You could take a spiritual gene that says "hot" and put it on the rock and it would be hot.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

36 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

That's what I thought we had. The way we had it working (to my understanding) was that you could manipulate a spirit web's connections by "moving them around" (This is kinda vague) but not "create" a new spirit altogether. 

This is what I was describing when I suggested it earlier. Sorry if it wasn't communicated well.

Basically what Xinoehp said.

IMO An enchantment should be putting a spell on an object that can be used repeatedly. How this is done is changing the spiritweb to accommodate the spell.

[kenod]

1 minute ago, ZincAboutIt said:

I am assuming you would need to "charge" this thing for it to work repeatedly? Also, putting the spell on the person - via a tattoo I assume? A brand? Carving it into their skin? (Not opposed to any of these things just curious)

Not sure, I thought any medium would work for symbols, so all of those would work I guess.

 

[MacThorstenson he/him]

1 minute ago, xinoehp512 said:

That actually could be possible, I think. You could take a spiritual gene that says "hot" and put it on the rock and it would be hot.

Note that spiritual genes are all connection. And conservation of investiture matters, so if you stole the spiritual gene for hot from a person and put it on a rock, then you would get a rock thats body temp.

[xinoehp512 he/him]

2 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

This is what I was describing when I suggested it earlier. Sorry if it wasn't communicated well.

Basically what Xinoehp said.

IMO An enchantment should be putting a spell on an object that can be used repeatedly. How this is done is changing the spiritweb to accommodate the spell.

I mean, yes, but spells aren't made out of spiritweb. So you wouldn't put them in the soul, you'd just stick them on top.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

13 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

Note that spiritual genes are all connection. And conservation of investiture matters, so if you stole the spiritual gene for hot from a person and put it on a rock, then you would get a rock thats body temp.

That's what I brought up earlier. You could add multiple of the same kind of 'gene' and have them change slightly and strengthen by mixing enough. That's where the idea of taking a person slight resistance to fire from dozens of people with that gift and combining them into a single object, then that small gift gets stronger and becomes something like fire creation. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ShadowLord_Lith

[Steel Inquisitive he/him]

OK. So we're back to enchantments can do anything? 

I was picturing it being like splicing two spirits together. (Or just rip a string from some other spirit.) For example taking the spirit part of a plant that allows it to convert sunlight into useable energy. I could place that part of its soul on a piece of metal and boom! you have a solar panel..... (although now that I think about it they wouldn't have the necessary tech for that...... MAN I'm bad at picking examples......)  

Edited March 6, 2019 by Steel Inquisitive
Never you mind!

[xinoehp512 he/him]

1 minute ago, ShadowLord_Lith said:

That's what I brought up earlier. You could add multiple of the same kind of 'gene' and have them change slightly and strengthen by mixing enough. That's where the idea of taking a person flight resistance to fire from dozens of people with that gift and combining them into a single object, then that small gift gets stronger and becomes something like fire creation. 

That's not how spiritweb works, though. Each gene gives objects properties.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

2 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

I mean, yes, but spells aren't made out of spiritweb. So you wouldn't put them in the soul, you'd just stick them on top.

Sorry, I phrased that wrong. What I was saying was that the spell could be the method for changing the spirit web to achieve a desired affect.

So a spell to make a rock hot would be placed on the rock. Then it would change the rock to match the desired affect. Does that make sense?

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

7 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

Note that spiritual genes are all connection. And conservation of investiture matters, so if you stole the spiritual gene for hot from a person and put it on a rock, then you would get a rock thats body temp.

Interesting. So if, theoretically, you stole the spiritual gene from "ice" would it morph into "water" if above freezing, or would it be like the "ice" was continually frozen somewhere else...? Gah I am not articulating this well. 

Edit: Or would it be more like the object now has the capability of freezing at the freezing point of water? 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ZincAboutIt

[xinoehp512 he/him]

4 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

Sorry, I phrased that wrong. What I was saying was that the spell could be the method for changing the spirit web to achieve a desired affect.

So a spell to make a rock hot would be placed on the rock. Then it would change the rock to match the desired affect. Does that make sense?

So just the natural change in spiritweb when an object changes?

What ritual "enchanting" should be able to do (in my opinion) is take a quality from the spiritweb of something and put it on a different spiritweb. 

[MacThorstenson he/him]

3 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Interesting. So if, theoretically, you stole the spiritual gene from "ice" would it morph into "water" if above freezing, or would it be like the "ice" was continually frozen somewhere else...? Gah I am not articulating this well. 

Edit: Or would it be more like the object now has the capability of freezing at the freezing point of water? 

It depends on what you stole from ice.

If you stole ice's heat, then the object would be as cold as ice.

If you stole the identity of being a frozen chunk of water, then it would have 2 confllicting identities.

Spirit web manipulation is a complex thing.

If in the RP we want this to be a large part of the magic, then there will need to have been groups studying this for millennia.

The complexity of this is a natural limit.

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

Just now, MacThorstenson said:

It depends on what you stole from ice.

If you stole ice's heat, then the object would be as cold as ice.

If you stole the identity of being a frozen chunk of water, then it would have 2 confllicting identities.

Spirit web manipulation is a complex thing.

If in the RP we want this to be a large part of the magic, then there will need to have been groups studying this for millennia.

The complexity of this is a natural limit.

Ha! I think I am actually starting to understand this. I'm not actually sure if this should be a giant portion of the magic but I'm pretty neutral on that aspect. If enough people want it...? The thing is, if people are studying something for millennia, then I'd guess the society would probably have progressed beyond "classical fantasy" era feel (pseudo-medieval). 

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

7 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Ha! I think I am actually starting to understand this. I'm not actually sure if this should be a giant portion of the magic but I'm pretty neutral on that aspect. If enough people want it...? The thing is, if people are studying something for millennia, then I'd guess the society would probably have progressed beyond "classical fantasy" era feel (pseudo-medieval). 

Not really. Rome invented steam engines, but they didn't use them or improve them because they preferred using their slaves- so it isn't impossible to believe society is just being slow to progress. Besides, natural disasters that don't destroy written records should allow progress while limiting societal progress as a whole. 

Edited March 6, 2019 by ShadowLord_Lith

[xinoehp512 he/him]

I'm okay with it not taking millennia to figure out how to move the "hot" gene. 

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

Just now, ShadowLord_Lith said:

prison

Sorry, what does prison have to do with this...? Have I missed something?

You make a good point though, not everything evolves at the same speed. If everyone is focused on studying the spirit web, that doesn't mean that everyone has suddenly developed a keen interest in electricity or whatever.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

3 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

So just the natural change in spiritweb when an object changes?

What ritual "enchanting" should be able to do (in my opinion) is take a quality from the spiritweb of something and put it on a different spiritweb. 

That's what I also think it should be able to do, but I think we disagree about how specific the changes can be. I think that the changes can be as specific as you want, but that the complexity of isolating the connections is incredibly difficult.

4 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Ha! I think I am actually starting to understand this. I'm not actually sure if this should be a giant portion of the magic but I'm pretty neutral on that aspect. If enough people want it...? The thing is, if people are studying something for millennia, then I'd guess the society would probably have progressed beyond "classical fantasy" era feel (pseudo-medieval). 

True.

Here's an idea. Everyone look at my character Maq ( I think thats the right one). He can see spirit webs. What if innate people can instinctively understand small aspects of spirit webs like Maq can and then transcribe that into symbols. Then people can use that as a crutch and understand it easier, but the complexity is still an inhibitor for the really advanced stuff.

[Kidpen he/him]

All of the feruchemical traits are stored on the spiritweb. Most things are stored on the spiritweb.

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

Just now, ZincAboutIt said:

Sorry, what does prison have to do with this...? Have I missed something?

You make a good point though, not everything evolves at the same speed. If everyone is focused on studying the spirit web, that doesn't mean that everyone has suddenly developed a keen interest in electricity or whatever.

Sorry, auto correct. I've fixed it. I meant to say 'progress'.

Very true. Besides, all it takes is a single group who study it religiously and then some of them share their knowledge with the world. Or it got leaked or stolen somehow. The rest might be so far behind them that this new knowledge leads them to start progressing again and discover new things and ways to use this knowledge. 

[kenod]

6 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Ha! I think I am actually starting to understand this. I'm not actually sure if this should be a giant portion of the magic but I'm pretty neutral on that aspect. If enough people want it...? The thing is, if people are studying something for millennia, then I'd guess the society would probably have progressed beyond "classical fantasy" era feel (pseudo-medieval). 

There's also the fact that the actual scientific method wasn't invented until Descartes came along, before that the general idea was to just assume a theory was right if it sounded right, without ever running experiments to see if it was wrong. This meant people were using Aristotelian physics for about two millenia.

[+ZincAboutIt she/her]

Just now, MacThorstenson said:

Here's an idea. Everyone look at my character Maq ( I think thats the right one). He can see spirit webs. What if innate people can instinctively understand small aspects of spirit webs like Maq can and then transcribe that into symbols. Then people can use that as a crutch and understand it easier, but the complexity is still an inhibitor for the really advanced stuff.

This is an excellent idea. Would each Innate only be able to see/sense a specific element of something? Temperature, state of matter, things like that? 

[ShadowLord_Lith he/him]

4 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

This is an excellent idea. Would each Innate only be able to see/sense a specific element of something? Temperature, state of matter, things like that? 

Well, maybe specialize, but I think they should be able to see all if the web. If that were their only ability- to see, innately understand, and communicate with the spirits of people, animals, plants, and magic- that would be pretty cool. 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

I just want the Innate system to be able to work with both Natural and Ritual magics, allowing a 'translation' of sorts between the two.

[kenod]

So we won't have anyone able to use magic quickly from what I'm gathering? In that case, I think there will probably be a bunch of hacks around to deal with that.