Gasper he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 I was reading the article on the coppermind about the Dawnchant and this quote caught my attention: "They came from another world. Using powers that we have been forbidden to touch. Dangerous powers, of spren and Surges. They destroyed their lands and have come to us begging." Notice that the Singer writing this mentions another world (Ashlyn) and Destroyed lands. This leads me to believe that the humans took over Shinovar first. But some sort of ecological disaster caused them to go to the native Singer population and ask for more land. This might also explain why the Shin look so distinctive, they are the humans that stayed in Shinovar and where changed by the disaster that happened there. We also know that spren are rare in Shinovar, that would suggest that the cognitive realm is different there compared to the rest of Roshar. The powers of spren and surges mentioned might include abilities that warp the cognitive realm and make it hard or impossible for most spren to manifest in Shinovar. What ever was unleashed may have restructured the boundary between Shadesmar and the Physical realm in such a way that it distanced them or created a Sel like environment that is hostile to life. This is supported by Shinovar being the region of Roshar closest to Sel on the map. That region of the Cognitive Realm sea is called the Sea of Regrets, which is also evidence the something bad once happened there. I think that we will soon find out what caused those names and why Shinovar is so different from the rest of Roshar. 1
IcaroRibeiro he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 I guess human destroyed their past world and came to Roshar begging
RShara she/her Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 I think the destroyed lands just refers to Ashyn. Shinovar is pretty obviously created specifically for them, with an environment and ecology like on other human-inhabited worlds.
ScavellTane Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 A related point: Why is it that Braize never had life yet Ashyn and Roshar did?
+Invocation Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: A related point: Why is it that Braize never had life yet Ashyn and Roshar did? Probably because it's an inhospitable wasteland.
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 We don't know much about Braize other than that's where the souls of the Fused used to hang out between Desolations. It may be able to support life that isn't a Cognitive Shadow. I guess we'll have to RAFO.
ScavellTane Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 There are three different blood types, therefore three different ecology, hence three different planets. That's where I'm leaning towards these days.
Calderis he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 35 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said: We don't know much about Braize other than that's where the souls of the Fused used to hang out between Desolations. It may be able to support life that isn't a Cognitive Shadow. I guess we'll have to RAFO. What we do know about Braize in the Physical comes from Khriss. Quote There are a whopping three planets in the habitable zone, all of which are inhabited to one extent or another. There is Ashyn, the burning planet, which suffered a cataclysm long ago. People here live in very small pockets of survivability, including the famous floating cities. Farthest out of the three is Braize, which despite being cold and inhospitable to men is home to an ecosystem of self-aware Splinters. (The local parlance would call them spren.) I believe it’s possible some of these are actually Cognitive Shadows, but research here is difficult and dangerous, so I will hold back on theorizing for the moment.
Gasper he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Author Posted February 18, 2019 6 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said: I guess human destroyed their past world and came to Roshar begging Yes, but what I am saying is that they did something in Shinovar that made them go to the Singers for more land, which kicked off the desolation, created the Shin, and caused the Heralds to go to Honor for the Oathpact.
+Oltux72 he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Gasper said: Yes, but what I am saying is that they did something in Shinovar that made them go to the Singers for more land, which kicked off the desolation, created the Shin, and caused the Heralds to go to Honor for the Oathpact. The text does not state explicitely what they destroyed. Yet Ashyn is still devastated after millenia. It seems like an unnecessary addition to propose that they also ruined Shinovar, which is perfectly fine and still more terrestial than the rest of Roshar. Population pressure or simple greed are far easier reasons for starting the Desolations. And, frankly, less contradictory. If the humans had just ruined Shinovar, too, why were they strong enough to take the rest of Roshar? A hostile environment they were not adapted to and knew little about. 1
Gasper he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Author Posted February 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Oltux72 said: Population pressure or simple greed are far easier reasons for starting the Desolations. And, frankly, less contradictory. If the humans had just ruined Shinovar, too, why were they strong enough to take the rest of Roshar? A hostile environment they were not adapted to and knew little about. I think that what ever made Shinovar habitable for the Shin made it longer term uninhabitable for the rest of the humans. Which is why they left and attacked the Singers.
+Oltux72 he/him Posted February 18, 2019 Posted February 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Gasper said: I think that what ever made Shinovar habitable for the Shin made it longer term uninhabitable for the rest of the humans. Which is why they left and attacked the Singers. Szeth lived outside Shinovar for years. Shin sailors and workers are mentioned. The Reshi Isles, the Frostlands, the Purelake or east coast have almost nothing in common as environments. But something in Shinovar kills non-Shin? That looks a bit unlikely.
Iadn Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/18/2019 at 8:19 AM, Gasper said: I think that what ever made Shinovar habitable for the Shin made it longer term uninhabitable for the rest of the humans. Which is why they left and attacked the Singers. So are you theorizing the Shin are not human then?
Gasper he/him Posted February 21, 2019 Author Posted February 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Iadn said: So are you theorizing the Shin are not human then? Not exactly, I think they are humans, just adapted to whatever caused the weirdness in Shinovar. The weirdness that makes it so that spren are not common or even present in Shinovar.
+Oltux72 he/him Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Iadn said: So are you theorizing the Shin are not human then? Have we ever seen humans from different worlds interbreed? Actually for Shin and the rest of the Rosharans to have different requirement only one of them has to be different. There is no need for the Shin to be the altered group. Indeed the appearance the Voidspren of Kaladin's group took strongly suggests that the Shin are the original type.
notsawerd Posted February 21, 2019 Posted February 21, 2019 The highstorm is weird realmatically. It is similar to a travelling perpendicularity or in other words it bring the 3 realms together for a short period of time. The repeated phenomenon over time has made the 3 realms closer on Roshar than in other areas of the cosmere. Shinovar is more protected from the highstorms and therfore the realms are farther apart in that part of the world. The spren still exist there but are not seen in the physical realm. That's my theory at least. 1
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