beantheboy12 Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Preservation is clearly the opposite of Ruin. Dominion is clearly the opposite of devotion. Honor and Odium are pretty much opposites. This is my idea of shards and their opposites. Tell me what you think. Ruin + Preservation Dominion + Devotion Honor + Odium Ambition + (survival shard) Endowment + Autonomy Cultivation + ?? ?? + ?? ?? + ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) Not all Shards have a direct opposite, for what it's worth. Also Brandon has said that Preservation and Cultivation would be much more at odds than just Preservation and Ruin. Edited January 22, 2019 by Invocation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 Not all have an direct paired opposite, though there are several that can be considered opposites for most cases, and the personalities (of the vessels) has an impact. I personally think there is a certain amount of polarity in how the 16 shards fell out (in a theory based on the Allomantic table), which is why "several can be considered opposites" but there's nothing like confirmation for it. Quote Questioner What Shard is the opposite of Odium in the sense of the *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson There are several that could be considered opposites-- Questioner I mean in the assimilation sense, you’ve said that Odium doesn’t want to absorb any of the other ones but which one would want to? Brandon Sanderson Oh, which one would want to join with him? Questioner Or any of them. Brandon Sanderson I think that if personalities had been different, Honor and Odium, there would have been a very natural pairing, not that they’re opposites but they would have attracted. [...] Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016) Quote Shardbound [PENDING REVIEW] Do all Shards have a direct paired opposite intent... Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] No, I would say no, they do not all have a directly paired opposite intent. Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident Posted January 22, 2019 Report Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) I like the idea of the Shards each having a complementary Shard. I do think your pairing is a bit off though. Preservation and Ruin being opposites is cannon so no need to delve deeper there. Devotion and Odium seem like the next logical set. Their names are literally Love and Hate so I don't think there is much more to say. I will add that there is a WoB out there (I couldn't find it) that says Odium tried to hunt down Aona and Skai first but failed and so went after Ambition next. Ambition is an obvious choice in terms of kill order as it seems like the Shard most likely to try something like powering up by absorbing other Shards, but why Devotion first? In my opinion he made the choice because, as his opposite, Devotion posed the biggest threat to him personally. Honor and Ambition. This is where it gets a little fuzzy. I think these two are paired (not opposites) because they represent two sides of the same idea, Serving. Honor is about serving something external. Adhering to a code or swearing an oath, that sort of thing. Ambition is about self service and achieving your own ends. Neither is pure good or evil. You can swear an oath do do something stupid or evil, and your ambitions can further a good cause. It's a bit loose but it's my opinion on the matter. Dominion and Autonomy. I don't personally buy into the idea that Dominion is about domination, I think it is more about rulership and domain. The best pieces of evidence I have for this are the location reliance of Sel's magic systems and Raoden. Raoden is more Connected to the Dor than any of the other Elantrians. I think this is because he embodies the Shards better than any of the others. He is a man who took rulership (Dominion) over his people because he loved (Devotion) them. I would consider Dominion to be the Shard of kings, be they cruel tyrants or benevolent stewards. Autonomy, as the name implies, is about self reliance and independence. I would call it the shard of rebels. These could be heroes or they could be terrorists (I think of Kelsier when I think of this Shard). These two things aren't opposites, but they are two sides of a spectrum. I don't think we have met Cultivation's complement yet. I've tried to think about what that would look like and this is my line of thinking. Cultivation is about change. The opposite of that would be no change, but that's preservation. So I tried to think about what it means to cultivate something. Lets say you find some flowers growing in your lawn and decide to cultivate them. This would mean cleaning out weeds, adding fertilizer, watering, maybe putting up a fence to keep animals out or building a path or boxes around them. So cultivation isn't just change, it's change with a purpose or direction. The counter to that while still staying in the theme of change would be undirected or disordered change. This leads me to think that Cultivation's complement would be something like Chaos. Now chaos has a very evil sound to it (flash to the Joker's monologue to Harvey Dent in the Dark Knight), but it's not that kind of chaos. It's more like the randomness of nature. A butterfly flaps its wings and there's a hurricane. You guys get the picture. Long story short, Cultivation and Chaos. I don't think we have met Endowment's complement either. Given the nature of the only magic system we have seen from Endowment, I would say that it is all about the bestowal of power onto others. The other side of the spectrum from that would be taking power from others. I imagine something that leeches power from others in a sort of vampiric way. The best name that I could come up with for this Shard is Assimilation (inb4 Borg Shard). I have a personal theory that you could set all of the Shards on a wheel with their complements on the opposite side and put them in order. It would be in a sort of dark to light setup with Preservation at the north pole and Ruin at the south. You could then place Shards to either side of them (I would put Odium and Ambition on either side or Ruin) and then work your way towards the equator with gradually more neutral Shards. Other hypothetical Shards that I think could exist: Logic and Madness. I think these two would sit next to Cultivation and Chaos on my proposed Shard Wheel. Edited January 23, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I'm convinced that Wisdom is a Shard, and if it were to have an opposite it would be Instinct. Replaces Logic and Madness for me on your wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Odium tried to hunt down Aona and Skai first but failed and so went after Ambition next. Wrong order. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1550 2 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: I think it is more about rulership and domain. The best pieces of evidence I have for this are the location reliance of Sel's magic systems Nope, because D&D are stuck in the cognitive. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188-general-reddit-2015/#e3920 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, John203 said: Wrong order. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1550 Nope, because D&D are stuck in the cognitive. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/188-general-reddit-2015/#e3920 Thanks for the catch on the order. Must have gotten them turned around. Theory still holds IMO. Not seeing anything in that WoB about the Cognitive. It also doesn't say that Dominion isn't about nation/ruler (it doesn't say anything about what it's intent is). Unless someone can point me at a WoB that directly negates me, my opinion remains unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Not seeing anything in that WoB about the Cognitive. It also doesn't say that Dominion isn't about nation/ruler (it doesn't say anything about what it's intent is). Unless someone can point me at a WoB that directly negates me, my opinion remains unchanged. Dominion could be referring to nations/rulers if it had a Vessel. Dominion and Devotion are both churned together into a plasm-ish mess in the Cognitive Realm, which is why the location matters for the Selish magics. Quote Questioner [Can’t hear the actual question] Brandon Sanderson Elantris’s magic is location based because the primary source of the magic is located in the Cognitive Realm. Most of the worlds, the primary source of the magic is the Spiritual Realm, where all places are one. So for instance, Mistborn, you can go anywhere in the Cosmere and use the magic. Elantris, you can’t, because Devotion and Dominion were killed and their bodies were stuffed into the Cognitive Realm and the magic is being powered that way. Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 That would explain why you can't leave Sel and access the Dor. It wouldn't explain why only people from Arelon and Teo become Elantrian, or why all of the symbol based systems of magic are based on the geography of the region they're from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 To add to invocation, the relevant part is at the bottom https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1473 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 (edited) Relevant WoB. Christmas is cancelled. To many things floating around out there that aren't in his books. Makes it hard to come up with a relevant theory. This makes basically everything I said wrong for what its worth. Edited January 23, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Trust me. Everyone on this site has been there. I've been on the reciving end of WoBs more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, John203 said: Trust me. Everyone on this site has been there. I've been on the reciving end of WoBs more than once. Honestly makes me wonder why I waste my time posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezzik Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I lurked for a year before posting because i was afraid of that exact thing, and I was still shot down. The only way i learned things was when they were pointed out to me. Keep posting--if you find out something new, it wasn't a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 You know how we got there - where we know obscure WoBs by heart and can recite them in our sleep? We posted, theorized, got things wrong and were shown WoBs that contradict our ideas. It's how we learn this stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Honestly makes me wonder why I waste my time posting Trust me. I get WOB-ified even after a ton of posts and a year here. Each time, it helps me formulate the next thing in a way that won't get WOB'd. Just gotta take the hits and get back up. No waste of time to find out new things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Honestly makes me wonder why I waste my time posting Don't get discouraged! Theories are always good, and theory discussion, even if it ultimately is proven wrong, is educational for everyone involved, so it's never bad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Croaker's Apprentice Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I think it's fascinating to see how fantasy fandom starts to mirror the behaviour of religion...including scholarly exegesis of the text, and in the case of WOBS, the gathering of a corpus of hadith of the prophet... 11 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Relevant WoB. Christmas is cancelled. To many things floating around out there that aren't in his books. Makes it hard to come up with a relevant theory. This makes basically everything I said wrong for what its worth. Unlike most religions however, this particular prophet is available for consultation at the next book signing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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