Shards ride moons

[Ixthos]

Crazy theory time - I'm working on topics for the unmade and voidbinding, on identity and its relation to the cognitive realm, and on cyborg hemalurgy, but those are taking a lot of energy, so I'm posting a crazy theory which I think might be true but also is ... well, you'll see. Basically, the idea is shards use moons or planets to get around, and can't - or can but don't - just move without a physical mass to be a part of, unless it is in the same star system e.g. Odium moving between Roshar and Braize. This theory will first state a few things which support this, and then talk about Sel, Scadrial, etc. and the moons or the lack of moons those systems have.

 

First, a few points to support this. Support this crazy, crazy theory ...

• On Sel, soulstone is believed to come from the souls of broken gods, and fell at night. It also has flecks of red, which suggests based on how red is used, that it contains corrupted investiture, a mixture of investiture which has been altered from its purpose, suggesting its origins as both actual moon rock, and coming from the two shards. Also, the moon sceptre is tied by function to the different systems, and so implies a connection to the moon and the power.
• On Scadrial, Vin could feel her power throughout the planet, the world, but didn't seem to feel the power she had further way, so the bulk of her power would have been confined to Scadrial - this is the weakest argument, but included for posterity. While I think Shards can affect distant worlds, and will be using that power at the end of Stormlight five to either kill or imprison Odium, I think that it is suggested that they still can't easily affect things which aren't immediately in their sphere of influence.
• Shards can move planets, and when Sazed moved Scadrial, he didn't have to run to catch up - he moved with it.
• Moving a planet or moon means the Shard doesn't have to divest itself of any power it has attached there, and Odium seemed to have little trouble appearing on Roshar from Braize, so it seems hoping or projecting to a nearby planet doesn't entail the same problems.
• This would eliminate any issues with where a Shard's focus is when travelling between worlds - while their power might warp the cognitive realm - my theory on Silverlight - I think a mobile planet would eliminate any issues with their location in space becoming undefined in the cognitive realm.

 

Now, the systems:

• Sel - one moon, for the Dor. If it had two moons - one for each shard, they are both combined together now, and the impact of them combining - or if they were both already one moon, of them being splintered - were what spread soulstone to the planet from the moon or moons, which is implied to be invested part of splintering Devotion and Dominion, and its shards are on the planet
• Scadrial - no moon - the two moons became the core of Scadrial, so both Preservation and Ruin would be bound to it, and also could use them as a base for the planet
• Roshar - thee moons, three shards, and three moons being an important part of the iconography of the Herald art
• Threnody - no moon - Ambition fled, and so if it used an astronomical body, it fled with it. If this theory is accurate, and if my theory on Silverlight is correct, this might be present at the physical location corresponding to Silverlight.
• Taldain - one moon, one multiple personality disordered shard, which orbits in the only way it safely can, perpendicular to the plane of the two stars and planet

 

Please note that this theory says that the shards ride moons or planets, not that every moon has a shard. This also states that they might be able to move without it, but would have issues with the cognitive realm expanding around them as they moved. Also, if the shards ride moons, and if the state of that moon determines if the shard is whole or not, then Odium smashing two moons together could explain how he killed Devotion and Dominion.

 

So, what do you think? Thanks :-) Have a great day!

 

[Edit 1] Sazed, not Vin - corrected mistake

[Edit 2] Clarifying the issue that this post originally didn't convey the idea well, so a more detailed explanation of the idea is below - this is copied from a post I added. Also, added reference to the moon sceptre.

 

• Shards have arms, faces/feet, and possibly a heart, which might be the same thing as the faces/feet, or separate from them. This isn't the only thing to their structure, but the parts immediately relevant to the idea
• The arms exist in the spiritual realm, and so can affect everywhere. They can also be used to sense things, but only in a form similar to "touch", giving general information, but not enough to actively know all the dynamics of what is happening where they are sensing. And just as it is difficult to affect something you can only feel - like trying to draw a picture without being able to see it - and how it is hard to lift a heavy weight without being able to leverage your own mass against it, balancing on your feet, like lifting a heavy box with your arms extended as opposed to lifting it when you can get your feed under it, they can't use their full strength
• Their faces/feet are mainly in the cognitive realm, but exist in all three realms, or exists mainly in the cognitive but extends into the spiritual realm and physical realm, acting as a portal to their power and attention. Their faces/feet are were their attention is centred, but it is restricted in where it can be or go. It can move freely around a planet, and possibly the star system, but can't leave it, as though tied with a tether. It functions to let the shard see more clearly in the cognitive and physical realm where it is present, and so can provide both more sensory information (letting the arms be able to perform more precise actions), and leveraging the power (letting the power be more focused). This is shown by Vin and Kelsier, and even by Ruin, and is where their bodies materialise if they die or give up being shards, so acting as a portal back to the spiritual realm where their bodies are. I think they can split it to an extent, as shown by Leras when Kelsier showed up, and by Ruin and Sazed when they still had a presence above the planet while interacting on it, but in general it is where their face or faces are located, which is still limited to the planet. Bavadin probably does something different, mentioned below.
• The planet or star system the shard is present in has a tether to the face/feet, which restricts how far they can move, and also grounds, them allows one or more Perpendicularities to form, and thus for that planet to have a magic system - not because the arms are in the spiritual, but because the face/feet are grounded to it, giving it a magic system that minds can have access to, rather than being background, and the magic system can use those arms - which might actually be the entirely or core of the spiritual realm - to access that power when off world.
• When on a planet, its like being in a house, while moons would function like a truck. So on the moons or planets you can move freely inside it, but you can't get to somewhere else without driving there, riding along something you can freely move in. I guess the tether would be like having your foot tied to a chain, restricting how far you can go while also making you more a part of the place - especially important in grounding a shard, as the arms being everywhere mean the shard is everywhere, but the face can only be on one place, pumping investiture into the planet - and you would have to cut your leg off to leave. Once in the star system, or in orbit, you can extend the cable further, or the moon becomes part of the cognitive landscape, so the tether ties you to the star system rather than to the individual moon you used, or maybe you still would be, but the tether's length expands.
• The heart, if distinct from the face or feet, would then be something vulnerable to attack, something which could be damaged to kill you, though not the only way to do so, as a human can be killed from damage to ones heart, or bleeding out from a cut off limb, or having the face wounded badly. This could be where the bulk of the power is kept, if distinct from the face/feet, while the face/feet are where that power is being directed. If this is on a moon, it might become linked to the state of that moon, but it could possibly be moved to the planet, or even if still on the moon, it could still be independent of the face/feet, and not restricting its movement throughout the system, as Odium showed when it - while still bound to Braize - appeared on Roshar in Oathbringer.
• Bavadin probably cheats by feeling with her arms to find investiture, then uses her arms to make a face out of it, or just sends out faces made at the location of other faces, connected to the power but functioning as an independent mind with its own personality, more so than how Vin described being able to be able to think several things as once, as that is one mind able to perform multiple thoughts, rather than multiple minds, tied to the same power, able to perform those same multiple thoughts.
• Either the shards can "walk" to other worlds, but might suffer more damage trying to leave the system they came from - and the shards likely were strongly tethered to Yolen at the start - and so make use of moons to reduce how much damage is dealt, or they can't leave without a moon, so they make use of them to arrive in systems, and then might be able to abandon them, or can't because they have become a part of them.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Ixthos

[Ripheus23]

29 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

So, what do you think?

I think we now need a new theoretical term, "Shardmoon."

[Ixthos]

5 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

I think we now need a new theoretical term, "Shardmoon."

Or Nightmare Moons. ... because they ride them, and Odium would be scary, and because Harmony ... Luna ... nevermind ....

[RShara]

The Shards move around via the Spiritual Realm, similar to how Vin describes how she's not actually moving, just changing the focus of her attention, while she's holding Preservation.

Quote

She followed. Speed wasn't an issue. In fact, she didn't even really feel like she was moving. She "followed" because that was how her mind interpreted the experience of instantly moving her consciousness to the place where Ruin had focused his.

Quote

Questioner

In the event that.. so, say if you've got someone who went through a certain event, and it would have Snapped them. Take that person away from Scadrial, and move them to a different world. Would that still Snap them?

Brandon Sanderson

Remember that the Shards are mostly Spiritual Realm things. Space and time do not matter to them. Time does, space does not.

source

 

[Jace21]

Its an interesting theory but I don't think I buy it. Following your points here is my reasoning:

1. We don't know if there is anything special about soulstone at all. Solid investiture tends to manifest as a metal when solid so stone would be strange. It may well have strange properties, it may not, but if it does I imagine it would have related to the Splintering of Dominion and Devotion which wouldnt have required destroying anythig physical.

2. Shards can't feel power further away because they are limited by a finite mind. The Spiritual Realm is independent if location so it isn't a distance thing as such, just a "more of me is there so I'll focus there kind of thing".

3. Vin didn't move a planet? If yoy nean Sazed then he didn't need to move. He was in the Spiritual Realm and so while the planet moved he was merely aware of it in its new location, he didn't move himself.

4. Investing a portable moon/planet is interesting but until we see it, not evidence. We don't know how Odium does it but he is currently heavily invested on both planets which may be helping him appear on either.

5. I think the power woukd warp the cognitive only when they invested somewhere, such as perpendicularities. If they divesf from a planet their fo us is wherever they want it to be until they invest again, willingly or not. They don't need a physical planet to move about.

The moon things are interesting but as I am not sold on the theory I would say it's not realmatically significant. Though it's worth noting that as Scadrial was created entirely by Preservation and Ruin the simplest explanation for the lack of moon is that they just didnt make one.

 

[Ixthos]

13 minutes ago, RShara said:

The Shards move around via the Spiritual Realm, similar to how Vin describes how she's not actually moving, just changing the focus of her attention, while she's holding Preservation.

 

That was moving on the planet - I'm talking about moving from star to star, not around the planet she was invested in.

 

@Jace21 Soulstone is implied to be important though, as the land on Sel is invested, and on Nalthis they have a flower which is implied to be invested.

Also, I am talking about moving their focus, their hub - Vin could move it across the planet, but not off of it - not without risking leaving power behind. This is like standing on one spot, but being able to reach out your hand to reach something further away - how much power can be put into the action requires the focus being there - the nexus of power, as Vin thought of it after absorbing the mists.

Also, I corrected that a few minutes ago - I mentioned the wrong person. Either way, it is stated that they can't just leave a planet without part of them being lost.

To note - I'm talking about the focus of the shards attention - Vin and Kelsier both had a discreet location their minds were present in when using the power. I'm saying that can't move off of the planet without another planet, or maybe it can be it is more effective and less draining - risking not losing power - to simply move the planet or a moon.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Ixthos

[Weltall]

Shards exist in the Spiritual Realm, they don't need a Physical vessel to 'move' through space because where the bulk of their power resides, there is no space in the way we perceive it. Bavadin can interact with worlds like First of the Sun and create avatars there and on other worlds even though she's Invested in Taldain and that's her 'home' in Physical and Cognitive terms. Brandon has even said that motion is irrelevant to the Shards, which means they don't really need any Physical counterpart to their Spiritual 'movement'.

20 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

Scadrial - no moon - the two moons became the core of Scadrial, so both Preservation and Ruin would be bound to it, and also could use them as a base for the planet

Given that there's no evidence that Scadrial was formed over two moons and everyone who's discussed the subject has said that they simply created the planet from the ground up when they arrived, this is literally making up evidence to fit your idea.

Quote

Roshar - thee moons, three shards, and three moons being an important part of the iconography of the Herald art

I'll grant you that there's something significant about Roshar's moons and the fact that they're in unstable orbits, but I don't think that's evidence for your theory... especially since Odium isn't even on Roshar, he's on Braize... which has no moon.

Quote

Threnody - no moon - Ambition fled, and so if it used an astronomical body, it fled with it. If this theory is accurate, and if my theory on Silverlight is correct, this might be present at the physical location corresponding to Silverlight.

Khriss mentions that the fight between Odium and Ambition mostly took place (insofar as it had a Physical dimension) in the space between the planets. There's no indication that the arrangement of planetary bodies in the system was actually shifted by the conflict and I'm pretty certain that if Threnody had a moon at one point and then didn't, someone would have mentioned it by now.

Also, there can be locations in the Cognitive with no Physical presence on the other side. The Ire fortress is a good example.

Quote

On Scadrial, Vin could feel her power throughout the planet, the world, but didn't seem to feel the power she had further way, so the bulk of her power would have been confined to Scadrial - this is the weakest argument, but included for posterity. While I think Shards can affect distant worlds, and will be using that power at the end of Stormlight five to either kill or imprison Odium, I think that it is suggested that they still can't easily affect things which aren't immediately in their sphere of influence.

Scadrial is a very special case because Preservation and Ruin permeate that planet in a way that other Shards do not, even if they're heavily Invested in a world. That means that Vin was especially locked down to that Physical/Cognitive region. Plus, y'know, she was busy fighting against Ruin so it's not like she had much time to explore other possibilities. Rashek actually had enough time during his brief Ascension to learn that there were other worlds out there in spite of having both a time limit and access to a lot less of Preservation's power. Give a Shard enough time and they can interact with other worlds even if they're more limited in what they can do on a world they're not directly Invested in.

[Ixthos]

11 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Shards exist in the Spiritual Realm, they don't need a Physical vessel to 'move' through space because where the bulk of their power resides, there is no space in the way we perceive it. Bavadin can interact with worlds like First of the Sun and create avatars there and on other worlds even though she's Invested in Taldain and that's her 'home' in Physical and Cognitive terms. Brandon has even said that motion is irrelevant to the Shards, which means they don't really need any Physical counterpart to their Spiritual 'movement'.

Given that there's no evidence that Scadrial was formed over two moons and everyone who's discussed the subject has said that they simply created the planet from the ground up when they arrived, this is literally making up evidence to fit your idea.

I'll grant you that there's something significant about Roshar's moons and the fact that they're in unstable orbits, but I don't think that's evidence for your theory... especially since Odium isn't even on Roshar, he's on Braize... which has no moon.

Khriss mentions that the fight between Odium and Ambition mostly took place (insofar as it had a Physical dimension) in the space between the planets. There's no indication that the arrangement of planetary bodies in the system was actually shifted by the conflict and I'm pretty certain that if Threnody had a moon at one point and then didn't, someone would have mentioned it by now.

Also, there can be locations in the Cognitive with no Physical presence on the other side. The Ire fortress is a good example.

Scadrial is a very special case because Preservation and Ruin permeate that planet in a way that other Shards do not, even if they're heavily Invested in a world. That means that Vin was especially locked down to that Physical/Cognitive region. Plus, y'know, she was busy fighting against Ruin so it's not like she had much time to explore other possibilities. Rashek actually had enough time during his brief Ascension to learn that there were other worlds out there in spite of having both a time limit and access to a lot less of Preservation's power. Give a Shard enough time and they can interact with other worlds even if they're more limited in what they can do on a world they're not directly Invested in.

Its a bit late, and I'm tired, so I hope I don't come across as testy. I would like to note a few things, and I hope this doesn't come across as rude.

 

I've been going over the part of Hero of Ages where Vin takes up the power, and also thinking back to when Kelsier took the power. Both had focuses their minds had to be to use the power - it could move quickly, but they were limited in where their minds could be.

The shards made the planet, but it isn't stated WHERE the matter came from. It could have been drawn from the power of the shards, true, but it also could have been congealed around something. It is an assumption to assume they didn't get the matter from around them, from the oort cloud for example. I'm not making evidence to fit the idea, I'm suggesting where the moon or moons would be if the idea is true. If the idea is wrong, then there isn't a moon. If its right, then the moons likely became the seed.

Odium could either travel to Roshar or project himself there from Braize. My theory explicitly mentioned this as noteworthy, that Odium didn't have an issue appearing in the third book.

At which point would it have been mentioned? The only information about Threnody in the past was that it had power, and this is also based on the idea that a Sho Del would settle on a planet with humans. Ambition could have been around one of the other planets.

The Ire fortress was on the edge of Scadrial's cognitive realm, near the edge of space where steps become parsecs or lightyears.

I need to find the exact quote, but Brandon has said either in a novel or when asked that shards can't leave a system without loosing something - if they stay too long on a planet, they become locked to it, and would lose power.

 

I'm talking about moving the focus, the nexus, of their power, which Vin and Kelsier showed was where the power is focused. I'm convinced they can act through on other planets through the spiritual realm, but that they can't use their full power without that nexus being there.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Ixthos

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine]

9 hours ago, Ixthos said:

I'm talking about moving the focus, the nexus, of their power, which Vin and Kelsier showed was where the power is focused. I'm convinced they can act through on other planets through the spiritual realm, but that they can't use their full power without that nexus being there.

So here are some WoBs spoilered below with emphasis that address this point:

• Terminology WoB, Innate investiture:
  Spoiler

  Quote

  Chaos

  Is there a cosmere-specific term you use to describe, say, a Shard's power inside someone? For example, people on Scadrial had little bits of Preservation in them that made them sentient (and, with enough Preservation, Allomancy). This obviously doesn't make these people Slivers or Splinters, so I was just wondering if you had a word for it.

  Brandon Sanderson

  In my own terms, I refer to all of this as types of investiture. The degree, and effects, can be very different--but those people are invested. I term this Innate Investiture, and it is similar to what happens with people on Nalthis. That is also innate.

  source

   

• Investiture seepage, perpendicularity tipping point:
  Spoiler

  Argent

  Which is a nice segue to Shards Investing into Shardworlds, that I've been meaning to ask. So is it kind of a passive-- The more a Shard stays on a world--

  Brandon Sanderson

  Yes.

  Argent

  --the Investiture kind of seeps--

  Brandon Sanderson

  It does. Once you've got a Perpendicularity, you are starting-- That's trouble for going other places. But you've gotta remember, going other places means multiple things to someone actually holding a Shard. They can exist in the Spiritual Realm, where all things are one. And they can even kind of comprehend it...

  Argent

  Can a Shard choose to just instantly invest in a place?

  Brandon Sanderson

  Yeah, they just need to start making some stuff.

  source

• The Shards are a'movin:
  Spoiler

  Questioner

  Do the Shards move-- Other than Odium do the Shards move around and have we seen-- Or have Shards moved to worlds after the events that we have read about?

  Brandon Sanderson

  Do Shards other than-- Do Shards move around? The answer is yes, there are several of them. Have Shards moved around after the events you've read about? Yes, there are Shards that have moved around after that.

  Questioner

  That have moved to the worlds we've read about?

  Brandon Sanderson

  That's a RAFO. I'm not going to tell you whether they've moved to the planets you've read about or not.

  source

• Shards reside in the Spiritual Realm, but their essences is in the Physical Realm, also splinters and invested entities have difficulty being far away from the Invested shardworld:
  Spoiler

  Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

  Do Splinters require proximity to their Shards?

  Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

  Do they require it for what?

  Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

  Function--

  Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

  Function. It's very hard for most Splinters to leave the realm where they were Splintered, but this gets into tricky stuff because the Shard mostly occupies the Spiritual Realm, but what do you mean by the Shard? Because the essence of the Shard is in the Physical Realm, it's all across the cosmere, and things like this. Usually once something is Splintered it is difficult for them to leave that area, so yes.

  Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

  And in the system--

  Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

  You see it with the-- I would call most Cognitive Shadows a Splinter in some ways. And you see it when Kelsier tries to leave, right. And spren would have the same trouble, and seons would have the same trouble. But at the same time is that a proximity to the Shard? Kind of. Things get very wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey when you start dealing with the nature of the Spiritual Realm in the cosmere. 

  source

• Kind of older WoB (2015) but states very explicitly that a Shards influence of power is based mostly on Physical distance, it's paraphrased, but it's not a very technical question or technical answer:
  Spoiler

  Leinton (paraphrased)

  Is a Shard's influence of power based on Physical distance, Cognitive distance, something else, or does it vary from Shard to Shard?

  Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

  It varies, but is definitely more Physical.

  source

• Very Old WoB (2012) but with a significant detail about a Shards power being built innately into the world they are invested in (this type of fundamental mechanic probably hasn't changed in the intervening years):
  Spoiler

  Odium's_Shard

  Does the Spiritual power used in any given magic system come from the supporting Shard itself, or through it from the remains of Adonalsium and the Power of Creation?

  Brandon Sanderson

  From the Shard in most cases. But it's also often built into the world innately, and so the Shard (if someone is holding it) doesn't always have control over who can or cannot use the magic.

  source

 

The above spoilered WoBs imply one thing very strongly, namely that though a Shard's consciousness (the thing it would refer to as itself) resides in the Spiritual Realm, it's Essence is projected into the physical Realm. And further, any significant concentration of Essence ties entities composed primarily of that Shard's essence to this pooling of Invested shardic essence. This is what is referred to in the terminology WoB as Innate investiture, and I think it's really as simply as it's the bits of Power associated with a shard that has been converted to either Cognitive matter or Physical matter. It still retains the particular "spin" of the investiture that was used to create, and is the projected Essence of the shard that made it (or if it was existent at the time of the shattering, the matter that had the particular "spin" that was associated with the component intent of Andonalsium (like Patji was associated with Autonomy's "spin")).

In the realm of pure speculation, I think this is an incredibly interesting idea and while their isn't a ton of proof other than the circumstantial variety, the fact that Roshar's moons are incredibly weird and that they seem to share a lot of common traits with the shards invested in the Rosharan system (detailed below) does seem very significant. As far as explaining how a Shards might go about Investing in a more or less non-permanent way and moving between solar systems (which we know is happening as shown by the Shards are a'movin WoB) this is a great possibly non-catastrophic solution, and a moon could be positioned so that it is proximate enough to the new planet that the shard desires to influence so that the physical essence constraint can be overcome. As a discrete and moveable focus for physical essence, a moon would be ideal, and another point in favor of the moon theory is that Brandon has stated that the Windrunner power set would be perfect for getting out into space (and by extension allowing KRs to check out the moons).

The color of the moons has always struck me as significant, Salas is violet, Nomon is a light pale blue, and Mishim is a green. Voidlight is violet, honor spren are blue and the Nightwatcher is green. This seems like it's not just coincidence, this seems like intentional symbolism which hints at a fundamental mechanic.

The one problem I see with this theory though is that the orbits of the moons around Roshar should have some kind of noticeable effect on the magic systems at play. While this might be slight, it should still be noticeable, especially given the difference in distance between apogee and perigree in the moons' eccentric orbits. With the ardents investigating the properties of spren (like the quantum mechanics like effect on the frozen flame spren after they have been measured) this orbital effect of the moons on Surgebinding/Fabrials might be something that will be noticed in the future, and possibly a goad to explore the moons in person.

All in all, this is a very fun thing to think about and I'm looking forward to see where this discussion goes.

Edited January 17, 2019 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
typos, always typos

[Jace21]

8 hours ago, Ixthos said:

I need to find the exact quote, but Brandon has said either in a novel or when asked that shards can't leave a system without loosing something - if they stay too long on a planet, they become locked to it, and would lose power.

I'm talking about moving the focus, the nexus, of their power, which Vin and Kelsier showed was where the power is focused. I'm convinced they can act through on other planets through the spiritual realm, but that they can't use their full power without that nexus being there.

You're right, we have multiple WoBs that if a shard's consiousness remains too long in one area then they will begin to invest, willingly or not.

That has no bearing on whether or not they move the moon or planet they have invested on to travel between solar systems though.

Shard's exist in the Spiritual Realm as everyonr above has stated. The geographic part then seems to be where they are focussed on. They exist independent of distance but their awareness can only be in one place at one time as they are limited by finite minds.

So the main ways of moving between systems would be to never settle to begin with and move as you wish, invest then divest (likely a long process) when you want to move or, as you suggest, simply move the invested moon/planet. 

I believe we have WoB that pre-Roshar Odium was the first type, with the shard that wants to survive being another candidate for a wandering Shard.

Invest/Divest is possible by WoB even if it can result in power left behind, though it may never have been done.

All Shards other than Odium (and maybe Ambition) that we know of seem to have arrived at a planet without bringing a moon tow (unless you think Yolen had 16 moons).

Your previous comments about the Roshar moons only prove that something is weird and while the other points you make, such as Scadrial's lack of moon, don't disprove the theory, they don't support it either.

So I doubt it has happened yet, but I hope Brandon uses it in the future, it sounds awesome.

[Ixthos]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine Thanks for the quotes :-) I wondered the same thing about Roshar's moons and their specific ties to the shards via their associated colour, though I think we will have to wait until at least book 5 before any connection is elaborated on. Also, just to clarrify - I will elaborate further down, but I don't think the phase of the moon would be important for the systems, only that the moon be present either in orbit, or in the same star system.

 

@Jace21 I don't think that Yolen had sixteen moons, though Phobos and Deimos in the real world show that a moon can be very small - either Yolen had one or more moons that were split into sixteen pieces, or they took moons from other planets that orbit the same star Yolen does or, if things changed, the star it originally did.

 

Also, I'm going to edit the original topic to add this part at the bottom to God willing remove any confusion my original post seems to have caused, but I see the shards - not in role, but in structure on how they can use their abilities - like this:

• Shards have arms, faces/feet, and possibly a heart, which might be the same thing as the faces/feet, or separate from them. This isn't the only thing to their structure, but the parts immediately relevant to the idea
• The arms exist in the spiritual realm, and so can affect everywhere. They can also be used to sense things, but only in a form similar to "touch", giving general information, but not enough to actively know all the dynamics of what is happening where they are sensing. And just as it is difficult to affect something you can only feel - like trying to draw a picture without being able to see it - and how it is hard to lift a heavy weight without being able to leverage your own mass against it, balancing on your feet, like lifting a heavy box with your arms extended as opposed to lifting it when you can get your feed under it, they can't use their full strength
• Their faces/feet are mainly in the cognitive realm, but exist in all three realms, or exists mainly in the cognitive but extends into the spiritual realm and physical realm, acting as a portal to their power and attention. Their faces/feet are were their attention is centred, but it is restricted in where it can be or go. It can move freely around a planet, and possibly the star system, but can't leave it, as though tied with a tether. It functions to let the shard see more clearly in the cognitive and physical realm where it is present, and so can provide both more sensory information (letting the arms be able to perform more precise actions), and leveraging the power (letting the power be more focused). This is shown by Vin and Kelsier, and even by Ruin, and is where their bodies materialise if they die or give up being shards, so acting as a portal back to the spiritual realm where their bodies are. I think they can split it to an extent, as shown by Leras when Kelsier showed up, and by Ruin and Sazed when they still had a presence above the planet while interacting on it, but in general it is where their face or faces are located, which is still limited to the planet. Bavadin probably does something different, mentioned below.
• The planet or star system the shard is present in has a tether to the face/feet, which restricts how far they can move, and also grounds, them allows one or more Perpendicularities to form, and thus for that planet to have a magic system - not because the arms are in the spiritual, but because the face/feet are grounded to it, giving it a magic system that minds can have access to, rather than being background, and the magic system can use those arms - which might actually be the entirely or core of the spiritual realm - to access that power when off world.
• When on a planet, its like being in a house, while moons would function like a truck. So on the moons or planets you can move freely inside it, but you can't get to somewhere else without driving there, riding along something you can freely move in. I guess the tether would be like having your foot tied to a chain, restricting how far you can go while also making you more a part of the place - especially important in grounding a shard, as the arms being everywhere mean the shard is everywhere, but the face can only be on one place, pumping investiture into the planet - and you would have to cut your leg off to leave. Once in the star system, or in orbit, you can extend the cable further, or the moon becomes part of the cognitive landscape, so the tether ties you to the star system rather than to the individual moon you used, or maybe you still would be, but the tether's length expands.
• The heart, if distinct from the face or feet, would then be something vulnerable to attack, something which could be damaged to kill you, though not the only way to do so, as a human can be killed from damage to ones heart, or bleeding out from a cut off limb, or having the face wounded badly. This could be where the bulk of the power is kept, if distinct from the face/feet, while the face/feet are where that power is being directed. If this is on a moon, it might become linked to the state of that moon, but it could possibly be moved to the planet, or even if still on the moon, it could still be independent of the face/feet, and not restricting its movement throughout the system, as Odium showed when it - while still bound to Braize - appeared on Roshar in Oathbringer.
• Bavadin probably cheats by feeling with her arms to find investiture, then uses her arms to make a face out of it, or just sends out faces made at the location of other faces, connected to the power but functioning as an independent mind with its own personality, more so than how Vin described being able to be able to think several things as once, as that is one mind able to perform multiple thoughts, rather than multiple minds, tied to the same power, able to perform those same multiple thoughts.
• Either the shards can "walk" to other worlds, but might suffer more damage trying to leave the system they came from - and the shards likely were strongly tethered to Yolen at the start - and so make use of moons to reduce how much damage is dealt, or they can't leave without a moon, so they make use of them to arrive in systems, and then might be able to abandon them, or can't because they have become a part of them.

[Thanatos]

Remember that WOB that said in one book Hoid was a character that had a severed tounge who was healed by a god who is a bringer of light?

I know I know... its rhetorical!!!

Masta Thanatos.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Thanatos

[Ixthos]

On 1/18/2019 at 2:11 PM, Thanatos said:

Remember that WOB that said in one book Hoid was a character that had a severed tounge who was healed by a god who is a bringer of light?

I know I know... its rhetorical!!!

Masta Thanatos.

... What?

[Quantus]

On 1/18/2019 at 7:11 AM, Thanatos said:

Remember that WOB that said in one book Hoid was a character that had a severed tounge who was healed by a god who is a bringer of light?

I know I know... its rhetorical!!!

Masta Thanatos.

I second the "...What?"  I cant find any WOB even close to that.

[Thanatos]

Sorry drunken comment.

Was funny at the time

[Ixthos]

22 minutes ago, Thanatos said:

Sorry drunken comment.

Was funny at the time

Forgiven :-) I just didn't know what you were talking about. Either way though, we're cool :-)

[Scion of the Mists]

@Thanatos Maybe don't post while drunk?  

[not an Evil Librarian]

just found this WOB

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Back to Stormlight. Is there significance to the color of moons?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, there is a significance to the colors of the moons in Stormlight, but it is not a major player in theories. There is a significance, but it's not, like, one of these things that you're going to read book seven and be like "The colors of the moons! It was there all along!" Sometimes, I put stuff like that in, right? It's not like that.

Oathbringer Glasgow signing (Dec. 2, 2017)

[Calderis]

Yeah... I'm in the Shards don't need any physical medium camp. If they haven't invested they should be able to go anywhere without issue. If they have, their focus is anchored to the system their a part of. 

 

[+Child of Hodor]

44 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Yeah... I'm in the Shards don't need any physical medium camp. If they haven't invested they should be able to go anywhere without issue. If they have, their focus is anchored to the system their a part of. 

 

Yeah, I wrote something like this theory a while back because the orbits are all messed up, like someone parked a moon there and disrupted everything. Someone who wasn't planning on staying long so he double parked his vehicle. 

Doesn't really fit with the rest of the Cosmere. Shards are kind of everywhere at once through the spiritual realm and that's where most of their investiture resides. Where they put their attention in the cognitive realm is where more of their investiture manifests in the physical realm or if they choose they can make a bunch of stuff in the system instantly invest there. 

I suppose the three shards could could have made the moons as their way of instantly investing. But Odium didn’t want to invest unless that was part of an agreement he made. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36/#e1551

Or something like that . Shards are weird, they don't have a body, but their power is their body. Most of their power is everywhere b/c spiritual realm, but the vessels minds aren't infinite so they can't make use of the spiritual realm investiture completely because they can't wield it ... but they can see it and access it in a way, but some better than others. They have like an infinite amount of investiture through the spiritual realm recycling investiture, but they can't exactly control the flow of it into other realms i.e. certain pits regenerated on an inconvenient timer for Ruin. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8605  https://wob.coppermind.net/events/147/#e2769 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e1729  https://wob.coppermind.net/events/39/#e397 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8702

Edited February 28, 2019 by Child of Hodor