Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Like the title says, I am re-reading the SA and noticed a two thing I have not picked up on before. 1) In the epilogue of TWoK Taln arrives "speaking perfect Alethi, no hint of an accent" but in WoR Dalinar says, in regards to Taln, "I can make out some of it, Elhokar. It's Alethi. Northern accent". I'm assuming this means that Taln has some kind of connection to the land similar to what the medallions in BoM do and that is why his spoken language changes. Also this would mean that the unclaimed hills/shattered plains have a greater connection to the old inhabitants of the land than to the Alethi that are currently living there. 2) When Mraiz gives Shallan the task of infiltrating Amaram's camp and finding out what he knows, he tells her to not harm Amaram because his life belongs to another. I assume he means Kaladin and if so, how does he know about everything that went down between Kaladin and Amaram? Kaladin has only told Dalinar and Moash (partially) at that point and Amaram only involved trusted men in his plot. I also think it is unlikely Mraiz had a spy in Amaram's inner circle because he could of just used that person to kill Amaram instead of sending Helaran. My guess at the moment is that there is an Amian (I forget the name of the cremling type) working for the ghost bloods and feeding them this information. What do you guys think? Are my observations just me trying to find something that does not exist? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor said: 2) When Mraiz gives Shallan the task of infiltrating Amaram's camp and finding out what he knows, he tells her to not harm Amaram because his life belongs to another. I assume he means Kaladin and if so, how does he know about everything that went down between Kaladin and Amaram? Kaladin has only told Dalinar and Moash (partially) at that point and Amaram only involved trusted men in his plot. I also think it is unlikely Mraiz had a spy in Amaram's inner circle because he could of just used that person to kill Amaram instead of sending Helaran. My guess at the moment is that there is an Amian (I forget the name of the cremling type) working for the ghost bloods and feeding them this information. Mraize has spies everywhere at one point or another. When you have the ability to gather a collection from across the cosmere of mementos and just leave them on shelves, it wouldn't be that hard to get into everywhere. We also don't know if Amaram told his friends with the Sons of Honor and there might be a mole there. Also, it's very possible he isn't talking about Kaladin. Could be a grudge we don't know about yet. Worth noting is that Mraize didn't send Helaran. Helaran was becoming a Skybreaker and was either given the chance to kill Amaram as a test or decided to do it himself to prove his worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eris Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 On the second one, I thought the Skybreakers sent Helaran not Mraiz, Mraiz knew about Tien being a Radiant or at least showing ability with the surges. But in regards to Amarm's life belonging to another, I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 A lot of people wanted Amaram dead, for all the good reputation he's supposed to have had. Kaladin and Jasnah are two. Presumably the Ghostbloods as a whole wanted him dead, as Gavilar expected it was the Ghostbloods who had had him assassinated and he and Amaram were both Sons of Honor. Tangentially, I think that the origin of the bad blood between Jasnah and the Ghostbloods is as simple as the Ghostbloods wanting Gavilar dead and Jasnah preferring her father alive. Mraize said Jasnah had been hunting Ghostbloods, and the most obvious motive (frankly, the only one that comes to mind) is that Jasnah started killing them so they wouldn't kill Gavilar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eris Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 I didn’t realise Jasnah was hinting the ghost bloods before her father died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 The ”who does Amaram belong to debate” is interesting. It could be Kaladin, but it would require a ton of intel for Mraize to know about that. Jasnah is possible, but unlikely as Mraize thought her dead at that point. My personal guess is Iyatil, since she actually attempts to kill Amaram at the end of WoR, and originally was supposed to succeed (Brandon changed his mind and killed Amaram in OB instead). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Eris said: I didn’t realise Jasnah was hinting the ghost bloods before her father died We don't know the timeline on that specifically yet, but Jasnah was obviously assassinating people to defend the budding Kholin dynasty before Gavilar died. The Ghostbloods wanted him dead, Jasnah is willing to kill to keep him alive. Sensible basis for conflict between the two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eris Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 8 hours ago, Kon-Tiki said: We don't know the timeline on that specifically yet, but Jasnah was obviously assassinating people to defend the budding Kholin dynasty before Gavilar died. The Ghostbloods wanted him dead, Jasnah is willing to kill to keep him alive. Sensible basis for conflict between the two So would that imply that Elhokar's wife may have been part of the ghostbloods because Jasnah was planning to have her assassinated/ watched the night of her father's death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kon-Tiki Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Eris said: So would that imply that Elhokar's wife may have been part of the ghostbloods because Jasnah was planning to have her assassinated/ watched the night of her father's death? Not necessarily. I actually think she was more connected to the Sons of Honor, based on some comments she made and the fact that the Sons of Honor actively sought to re-create a Desolation. Jasnah showed us not only that she was willing to wach Aesudan that night, but also that she was active in assassination and counter-assassination in dealing with threats to the throne, one of which was certainly the Ghostbloods. Mraize, insofar as he can even be trusted, says that Jasnah had been killing off Ghostbloods, so they had her assassinated back 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 On the Mraize bit, at the beginning of the conversation he said "he is also my current Prey" so I assumed when he said that his life belonged to another he was talking about himself, or maybe his own superior(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Quantus said: On the Mraize bit, at the beginning of the conversation he said "he is also my current Prey" so I assumed when he said that his life belonged to another he was talking about himself, or maybe his own superior(s). Yeah, I assume he meant Iyatil since she tried to kill Amaram with darts later in the novel. Mraize meant that he didn't want Shallan trying to do it because another Ghostblood was assigned to it. On 12/31/2018 at 11:28 PM, Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor said: 1) In the epilogue of TWoK Taln arrives "speaking perfect Alethi, no hint of an accent" but in WoR Dalinar says, in regards to Taln, "I can make out some of it, Elhokar. It's Alethi. Northern accent". I'm assuming this means that Taln has some kind of connection to the land similar to what the medallions in BoM do and that is why his spoken language changes. Also this would mean that the unclaimed hills/shattered plains have a greater connection to the old inhabitants of the land than to the Alethi that are currently living there. Good catch! I think each Herald has Connection to one of the Silver Kingdoms / Dawncities. Taln is the Herald of War and Alethela/Alethkar is the Silver Kingdom of warriors. Kholinar would be Taln's Dawncity, the farther away he gets, the more he loses Connection. Quote "I'm fine," Dalinar said. "Alethk ... Alethela. you live there?." "It is our duty and our privilege," the woman said, "to stay vigilant for the desolation. One kingdom to study the arts of war so that the others might have peace." - Starfall WoK ch. 19; Dalinar talking to a KR in a vision. It makes sense that they would need to establish connection because dialects and languages can change between desolations. As Heralds announcing a coming desolation it's important that they can communicate with the people. This would probably have to be something that was added after they broke the first time. The Oathpact was meant to be a permanent solution sealing the Fused up forever. They were never meant to come back to Roshar and there would be no need for them to communicate with future generations of Rosharans. Unless the way they were turned into cognitive shadows involved the Dawncities for reasons we don't understand yet and that gives them Connection. No clue, but thanks for pointing this out! There's always another secret in these books! Edited January 3, 2019 by Child of Hodor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 I think that has more to do with them being from Asyhn. Connection manipulation should be a necessity for worldhoppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: I think that has more to do with them being from Asyhn. Connection manipulation should be a necessity for worldhoppers. Active Worldhoppers sure, but not necessarily those that simply immigrated to a single other world en masse. Personally I think there is a lot more to Taln and his whole madness vs periods of lucidity than we yet realize, and he did get a deadeye shardblade somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 On 1/3/2019 at 8:57 AM, ScavellTane said: I think that has more to do with them being from Asyhn. Connection manipulation should be a necessity for worldhoppers. From the text in the OP it seems like he's connected to Kholinar specifically and when he's not there his accent slips even though he's still on Roshar and only a kingdom over. Unless it's an oversight by the author. When the humans came from Ashyn they went to Shinovar, maybe they didn't arrive at Shinovar, but I don't know why he'd be keyed to Kholinar or Alethkar specifically. On 1/3/2019 at 9:18 AM, Quantus said: Active Worldhoppers sure, but not necessarily those that simply immigrated to a single other world en masse. Personally I think there is a lot more to Taln and his whole madness vs periods of lucidity than we yet realize, and he did get a deadeye shardblade somewhere... Not sure if it's connection to the planet itself or the system that controls. Going from one planet to another in the same system might not require it. It's hard to tell because most systems only have one habitable planet so there is no opportunity to go to another planet in the same system. In this WoB Brandon says the Heralds are tied to the system they are in, not the planet. It's not an answer because they are cognitive shadows and not really human anymore. In this WoB he mentions how Heralds are cognitive shadows and that makes it hard for them to travel. Quote Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)#24 Questioner Have we seen cameos of Heralds on other Shardworlds? Brandon Sanderson The Heralds are tied to the system by the magic that permeates them. They could not leave. Questioner I thought I saw someone but I guess not. Brandon Sanderson It’s part of the magic. Some would call them Cognitive Shadows, right? Whether they are or not. "Cognitive Shadow" is a very ambiguous term in the cosmere. It means, basically your soul-- It's the same thing with petrification, right? Investiture replaced your soul, and permeated your soul, and your soul continues to exist, but... you are usually Invested with something, that's tied, and you're basically like pure Investiture then. You're tied to the thing you're Connected to. Most of the things that you're gonna see with that, travelling is going to be very difficult, unless you know how to do it. You have seen people do it. Mistborn: SH Spoilers: Spoiler Kelsier gets off the planet and into outer space, but he can't get to another planet. Scadrial was a unique planet created by Preservation and Ruin, while I don't think the other planets in the Scadrian system were. All the Rosharan planets were created by Adonalsium. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. Brandon again mentions it being a real problem for Cognitive Shadows like the Heralds and Vasher. Maybe it is less of a problem for humans. Quote Calamity Seattle signing (Feb. 17, 2016)#2 Questioner Well you answered my question about Allomancers being able to burn metals in other realms. Is that because the Shards are sort of… My impression from the book was that the Shards were, in the Mistborn books, specifically in that area but is it because the universe is formed across all of them that that is why the metals... Brandon Sanderson So, most of the magics are not region-dependent, because the Spiritual Realm-- in the Spiritual Realm space doesn’t exist. All things are the same distance from one another. Questioner Okay, so when Kelsier is in the-- Which Realm is he in? Brandon Sanderson He’s in the Cognitive Realm. Questioner Is he seeing people from other worlds or is he-- Brandon Sanderson No, he meets some people who are traveling but Cognitive Realm is location dependent. He is on the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and the people he runs into there-- until he kind of travels off into space, which is where he finds the fortress. Questioner So even though he’s tied to Scadrial could he go to the Cognitive Realm of other worlds? Brandon Sanderson He would have trouble getting to another planet, being a Cognitive shadow like he was. Questioner So is there some particular thing that somebody would need to have to be able to move between the realms? Brandon Sanderson A body is helpful. Depends on what their ties are and things like that. Not always, but yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted January 5, 2019 Report Share Posted January 5, 2019 21 hours ago, Child of Hodor said: Not sure if it's connection to the planet itself or the system that controls. Going from one planet to another in the same system might not require it. It's hard to tell because most systems only have one habitable planet so there is no opportunity to go to another planet in the same system. In this WoB Brandon says the Heralds are tied to the system they are in, not the planet. It's not an answer because they are cognitive shadows and not really human anymore. In this WoB he mentions how Heralds are cognitive shadows and that makes it hard for them to travel. For what it's worth: They were alive at the time of the migration (at least most of them, Ash is second generation) but were not heralds yet. Quote DiscordBondsmith [PENDING REVIEW] Were the Heralds alive for the human exodus from Ashyn? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes. They were not Heralds then, but they all made that trip. I believe. You can't nail me down on that one, because it's possible that Ash was born after, but I don't think so. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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