Star Wars Ep 9 The Rise of Skywalker

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

On 8/26/2019 at 7:50 PM, Karger said:

Thank you!

TLJ did kind of loose track of the difference between subverting expectations and telling a new story.  If star wars had not already been an established series no one would realy know what they were going for when they made the movie.  It did not have a clear message and it kept pulling out new twists that instead of making it better just kind of lost most of us.  Example if you don't want to make Rey's parents important then that is fine but make sure that your audience knows that they are not important(or at least foreshadow it).  Don't build them up and then make us all feel betrayed.

Well, I didn't feel betrayed. I loved how the movie subverted everything I was expecting to happen. I left the session completely satisfied. I do understand some people feel it was a filler movie because of the lack cohesion with the movie that came right before and yes this is an awful point when we watch both movies together, but to be honest my experience in the movie itself quite overcome my experience when I watch the whole trilogy (well the first 2 movies), probably because the first one was so safe that I wasn't that pleased to see a movie so directly linked to it 

If the The Force Awakens was more risky and groundbreaking and guided the story to a point that I appreciate I would probably dislike TLJ as well, it was not the case

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

On 8/26/2019 at 1:44 PM, Use the Falchion said:

 

Absolutely gorgeous 

 

But I hated the poster. It looks like a video game cover lmao 

Edited September 1, 2019 by IcaroRibeiro

[Karger he/him]

4 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I loved how the movie subverted everything I was expecting to happen

Does this mean you would love it if the movie had had a final scene where Rey and Jar Jar get into a romantic relationship?  That would have subverted everything you were expecting but that does not make it good.  While thankfully TLJ did not do anything that crazy it still completely lost me on what I was supposed to be feeling.  Am I suppost to be interested and suspicious of the deeper meanings behind the characters their history and their motivations?  No?  Then why have the characters look into their histories motivations or motivations(as we see with Rey and Luke's flashbacks)?  Are we supposed to be exited wondering what new twist is going to be pulled on us?  No?  Then why keep doing it but providing no foreshadowing or background info.  It is like what happens in the movie is governed entirely by what the director wants and not by has no obligation to explain himself to the audience so they have some idea of how every twist if being pulled off or why.

Subversion is fine in general, although problematic in star wars, but any media should have to meet a base standard of consistency.  TLJ did not do that.

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

Does this mean you would love it if the movie had had a final scene where Rey and Jar Jar get into a romantic relationship?  That would have subverted everything you were expecting but that does not make it good.  While thankfully TLJ did not do anything that crazy it still completely lost me on what I was supposed to be feeling.  Am I suppost to be interested and suspicious of the deeper meanings behind the characters their history and their motivations?  No?  Then why have the characters look into their histories motivations or motivations(as we see with Rey and Luke's flashbacks)?  Are we supposed to be exited wondering what new twist is going to be pulled on us?  No?  Then why keep doing it but providing no foreshadowing or background info.  It is like what happens in the movie is governed entirely by what the director wants and not by has no obligation to explain himself to the audience so they have some idea of how every twist if being pulled off or why.

Subversion is fine in general, although problematic in star wars, but any media should have to meet a base standard of consistency.  TLJ did not do that.

I find the movie both subversive and great. I didn't subverted only to drama factor, but there was a philosophy and ideal trough it. Making Rey a character without great parents and making her special just for be who she is, without a blessed bloodline

The only subversion that I didn't like was the death of supreme leader Snoke. Not his death itself, but we still having no explanation about where the hell did the First Order come from, both movies have failed with me, I'm guessing they will explain that trough The Mandalorian, maybe? 

But let's change the subject. The subversion is not the only reason why I liked TLJ, I was explaining why the subversion didn't bother me at all. The movie have other merits, let's talk about them:

 

- The film editing is crazy good, with surgical cuts to show the same scenes from different characters point of view

- Great world-building. The movie focus so much on civic people, and the battle of  lesser people in The Resistance, make me feel like there is truly a war going on outside the main characters circles, and of course in all wars there is people who will have benefits from it 

- Bad-chull fight of Rey and Kylo, I screamed when this fanservice appeared on the screen. It was also so great directed, notice how well the camera slows down and accelerates back to highlight points that Brian wanted to highlight 

- Actually very good relationship development with Rey and Kylo, I find their scene giving their hands in front of the fire pit the very beautiful, give me the sense they was really going to get along

- Gorgeous battles (not a good point only on this movie, cause Rogue One was marvelous too, but still a good point for me), in both space and ground. So many good moments, General 

- Gave to Luke some vulnerability and choice problems (his first appearance was hilarious), not because he was a bad person or master, but because all human beings can make mistakes and sometimes our mistakes costs us everything. It give him a good redemption arc in my opinion, his fight on the final act was great, showing him a truly powerful jedi master

 

The movie have some problems, and even a plot holes created only to make the filme have some twists (why the hell Admiral Holdo didn't explained to Poe what she was keep in mind?), it's far from a perfect movie, but the excitement make me feel so dope that I voluntarily choose to ignore the problems, I do if often when watching movies I like 

[Karger he/him]

11 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I find the movie both subversive and great. I didn't subverted only to drama factor, but there was a philosophy and ideal trough it. Making Rey a character without great parents and making her special just for be who she is, without a blessed bloodline

I would have thought that was great too.  However Rey got minimal character development and even screen time(considering she was a main character).  Also if her parents were nobodies it should have been a big reveal not an offhand comment.

13 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

The only subversion that I didn't like was the death of supreme leader Snoke. Not his death itself, but we still having no explanation about where the hell did the First Order come from, both movies have failed with me, I'm guessing they will explain that trough The Mandalorian, maybe? 

Agreed.  His death was exiting but it made no sense.  How did Kylo manage it?  Who was he?  What abilities did he have?  If you want to kill him off that is great go ahead but please be able to explain some basic questions afterward.

14 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

But let's change the subject. The subversion is not the only reason why I liked TLJ, I was explaining why the subversion didn't bother me at all. The movie have other merits, let's talk about them:

 

14 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

- The film editing is crazy good, with surgical cuts to show the same scenes from different characters point of view

Um.  This movie had millions of Disney dollars put into it.  This does not mean it deserve a Kudo this is expected.  A movie with this kind of money should only be notable for its editing if that editing is terrible.

16 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

- Great world-building. The movie focus so much on civic people, and the battle of  lesser people in The Resistance, make me feel like there is truly a war going on outside the main characters circles, and of course in all wars there is people who will have benefits from it 

I actually think they did a comparatively poor job at this.  We spend so much time jumping through places and people that have minimal or no effect on the plot.  Spending time with supporting or minor characters is great but maybe having them interact with our protagonists in a meaningful way would have been nice?

18 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

- Bad-chull fight of Rey and Kylo, I screamed when this fanservice appeared on the screen. It was also so great directed, notice how well the camera slows down and accelerates back to highlight points that Brian wanted to highlight 

This was good although again millions of Disney dollars.  However my main problem with this scene is that I had no idea of Kylo's motivations or what themes the movie was going for here.  Ideally in a star wars movie a fight scene should be thematic.  IE in Winter Soldier Cap refuses to fight offensively because he is standing by his unshakable beliefs while Bucky is full offense because off the amount of pent up rage and betrayal.  Watching them fight together was great but what does it mean?  Do they both just not want to die?  Do they have a common goal or belief?  Have they agreed on something?

22 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

- Actually very good relationship development with Rey and Kylo, I find their scene giving their hands in front of the fire pit the very beautiful, give me the sense they was really going to get along

I have a problem with that.  Can you describe their relationship?  Do they desire to understand each other?  Are they both hoping for someone to help them?  Is it romantic or adversarial?  I don't know and I am not sure how I am supposed to.

24 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

- Gorgeous battles (not a good point only on this movie, cause Rogue One was marvelous too, but still a good point for me), in both space and ground. So many good moments, General 

$$$$$$$$$.  Also the battles make absolutely no sense.  I am constantly wanting to throw a mutiny and put some sensible plan into action.

25 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

Gave to Luke some vulnerability and choice problems

Luke has always had both.  This movie made him hopeless which I could not stand!

26 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

his first appearance was hilarious

His first appearance pissed me off.  Why did he throw it away?  Could he not hand it back or at least accompany it with and explanation as to why he hates it?  

28 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

his fight on the final act was great, showing him a truly powerful jedi master

Sure.

28 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

The movie have some problems, and even a plot holes created only to make the filme have some twists (why the hell Admiral Holdo didn't explained to Poe what she was keep in mind?), it's far from a perfect movie, but the excitement make me feel so dope that I voluntarily choose to ignore the problems, I do if often when watching movies I like 

Some movies have holes.  This movie was swiss cheese.  I wish I could voluntarily ignore the problems.  However I could not so I can't stand this movie!

[Wyndlerunner he/him]

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Raises eyebrows.  How do you manage that?

I choose to see the good in them. That simple. 

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

Have Rose die in the first five minutes of the movie, and I’ll be satisfied. Heck, the First Order can win for all I care so long as Rose is gone.

[Jaywalk he/him]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

I would have thought that was great too.  However Rey got minimal character development and even screen time(considering she was a main character).  Also if her parents were nobodies it should have been a big reveal not an offhand comment.

I have to disagree. Her arc deals a lot with taking matters into her own hands and becoming disillusioned. At the beginning, she tracks down Luke, blindly hoping—and expecting—he’ll teach her how to be a Jedi, but through the course of the movie she gains a stronger will, avoiding temptation and making difficult decisions—going after Kylo, for instance.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Luke has always had both.  This movie made him hopeless which I could not stand!

Luke was one of my favorite parts of TLJ. I thought his situation made complete sense after having been betrayed by his students, who brought everything that he’d worked so hard to build come crashing down. He knew it was his fault for not seeing the darkness—in the Original Trilogy everything was more or less black and white to him—so he tried to get away from his mistakes. His arc over the course of the movie was done beautifully as he begins to face his past instead of hiding it; it starts with Rey, then Yoda, and finally redeeming himself by facing Ben—his past failure.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

I have a problem with that.  Can you describe their relationship?  Do they desire to understand each other?  Are they both hoping for someone to help them?

I think Rey and Kylo see themselves in each other. Whereas in TFA they were just enemies, both start seeing the different sides of one another, the weaknesses and strengths, how they could work so well together. Kylo sees Rey as lost just like he is; she sees the light within him and hopes to bring it forth.

 

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Um.  This movie had millions of Disney dollars put into it.  This does not mean it deserve a Kudo this is expected.

While excellent CGI may be expected, many high budget movies don’t do it as well. The fact that it came from money doesn’t take away from how visceral and wondrous the effects are and how well they were used.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Sure.

This isn’t a valid point. It’s not an argument, just sarcasm. Luke DOES show his power through astral projection, cementing himself as a great and powerful Jedi Master.

[Karger he/him]

4 hours ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Have Rose die in the first five minutes of the movie, and I’ll be satisfied. Heck, the First Order can win for all I care so long as Rose is gone.

I don't think that is fair.  I would want some explanations into Snoke a better depiction of Luke and more time exploring characters as apposed to just adding more imagery.

[Jaywalk he/him]

6 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think that is fair.  I would want some explanations into Snoke a better depiction of Luke and more time exploring characters as apposed to just adding more imagery.

How, might I ask, would you yourself portray Luke?

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

17 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think that is fair.  I would want some explanations into Snoke a better depiction of Luke and more time exploring characters as apposed to just adding more imagery.

Oh yeah, I just don’t like the character of Rose

But like you said, I definitely want more Snoke, and Luke would be excellent as well, maybe Kylo Ren backstories from Luke’s academy or something...

[Karger he/him]

4 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

I have to disagree. Her arc deals a lot with taking matters into her own hands and becoming disillusioned. At the beginning, she tracks down Luke, blindly hoping—and expecting—he’ll teach her how to be a Jedi, but through the course of the movie she gains a stronger will, avoiding temptation and making difficult decisions—going after Kylo, for instance.

Did Rey not go after Kylo at the begging of FA?  Was Rey ever some boundlessly optimistic type who believed in the good of her fellow man?  I don't remember her ever being like this.  She goes to Luke for help and answers when that fails she tries something else.  How is this character development?  I do the same thing when the bus is running late and I decide to take the train instead.  I would have liked some exploration into what makes her tic and why she has faith that her family will come back for her despite being such a down to earth practical type?

4 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

Luke was one of my favorite parts of TLJ. I thought his situation made complete sense after having been betrayed by his students, who brought everything that he’d worked so hard to build come crashing down. He knew it was his fault for not seeing the darkness—in the Original Trilogy everything was more or less black and white to him—so he tried to get away from his mistakes. His arc over the course of the movie was done beautifully as he begins to face his past instead of hiding it; it starts with Rey, then Yoda, and finally redeeming himself by facing Ben—his past failure.

Did we watch the same movie?  He was never betrayed by any of his students he let one of his students down.  He failed and did not bounce back.  That is not the Luke that I know.

4 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

I think Rey and Kylo see themselves in each other. Whereas in TFA they were just enemies, both start seeing the different sides of one another, the weaknesses and strengths, how they could work so well together. Kylo sees Rey as lost just like he is; she sees the light within him and hopes to bring it forth.

Why do they see themselves in each other.  They have nothing in common except force sensitivity and a relationship to Han(which is never realy brought up).  They are from very different backgrounds and have extremely different views on life(I think.  They did in the first movie but their motivations were vague up so much that I can no longer understand them).

4 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

While excellent CGI may be expected, many high budget movies don’t do it as well. The fact that it came from money doesn’t take away from how visceral and wondrous the effects are and how well they were used.

Shrugs.  I will allow that the movie had stunning CGI.  However I expected stunning CGI.  This was star wars.  CGI can't make a bad movie great no matter how good it is.

5 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

This isn’t a valid point. It’s not an argument, just sarcasm. Luke DOES show his power through astral projection, cementing himself as a great and powerful Jedi Master.

That was me agreeing.  I enjoyed seeing Luke do awesome Jedi stuff.  My only complaint was that it was at the end of the movie and we had to wait around for two hours while Mark Hamill stumbles around sounding way too irritable to be the Luke I know.

21 minutes ago, Jaywalk said:

How, might I ask, would you yourself portray Luke?

Any number of ways that are consistent with the source material.  Luke should be hopeful wise, and fun loving, but maybe just a little bit strained at this point like it takes effort to be himself and not give into despair.  This is just one suggestion.  I am sure people who do this for a living can come up with others. 

[NottTheBrave he/him]

The weirdest thing I've seen from people is that the idea Luke went to the island to die is the only fitting explanation for why he'd be there, and why he didn't jump back into the fight.  There's an infinite number of possibilities.  Of course, I think a lot of those possibilities would also depend upon them making Snoke a more intriguing character as well.  The villains have really let this trilogy down.  None of them have been good antagonists.  The closest thing we have to the main villain is Kylo, and it's also pretty obvious he's not the final villain.  I really hope Palpatines return, General Pryde, and the Knights of Ren are suitable antagonists in Episode 9.  The film deserves it after the wet farts that were Phasma, Snoke and Hux.

[Jaywalk he/him]

On 9/1/2019 at 8:09 PM, Karger said:

Any number of ways that are consistent with the source material.

...what source material?

[Karger he/him]

53 minutes ago, Jaywalk said:

...what source material?

The original movies.  Heck even some of the better books.

[Jaywalk he/him]

9 minutes ago, Karger said:

The original movies.  Heck even some of the better books.

I think enough time has passed, and Luke has gone through enough, that he could have changed as a person since the original trilogy.

[Karger he/him]

17 minutes ago, Jaywalk said:

I think enough time has passed, and Luke has gone through enough, that he could have changed as a person since the original trilogy.

Then why make if Luke at all?  If he is not going to be anything like the original Luke then just have another character do his mentoring job instead!

[Jaywalk he/him]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

Then why make if Luke at all?  If he is not going to be anything like the original Luke then just have another character do his mentoring job instead!

Because it's a sequel. People are expecting legacy characters--Han, Leia, Luke--to come back. It gives another point of nostalgia as well for older Star Wars fans, upping the emotional impact when he passes. Also, this is the Skywalker saga, and Luke is the only Skywalker left at that point(many people don't count Leia and Ben).

I don't see the problem having Luke be the mentor. He has an arc in the Original Trilogy, and then another in TLJ. His new journey doesn't undermine the old one.

Final point: a good rule of writing is to eliminate extraneous characters whose role could be filled by a character already part of the story. I personally think Luke is an excellent choice as a mentor character, and having another character wouldn't really make sense. Rey comes to Luke to be trained as a JEDI. As far as we know, he's the only Jedi Master, let alone Jedi, left at the time of TLJ.

[Wyndlerunner he/him]

I think it's also important to recall that this is going to be a generation's Star Wars. For instance, my father grew up on the original trilogy; it was his Star Wars. To juxtapose, I was raised during an era where the current SW content was the Prequels, and TCW. We each loved our respective eras of the saga more than the other's. Just like it was then, children now are being raised on the sequels, and they will love them to their hearts content. That does not make them not a true fan, that does not invalidate their enjoyment of Star Wars, or their opinions. Are the sequels the greatest movies known to man? Certainly not! But neither were any of the others for that matter. It pains me that I currently consider the online SW fandom to be one of the most toxic (And I'm saying this as a BIONICLE fan, sheesh that community's toxic). So, in conclusion, let people enjoy what Star Wars they enjoy. Our little Shardic corner of the fandom isn't very toxic at all, but it ought to be noted. I honestly am severely ticked off that SW has become a community where I don't want to raise my opinions, because I know it will just start a senseless debate between people who each think only they have the correct opinion on things. But yeah, that's my little rant.

TL;DR: Let people enjoy SW as they see fit, and don't invalidate their opinions.

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

 

Sh*t trailer

Please someone bring Rian back

 

Edited October 22, 2019 by IcaroRibeiro

[Jaywalk he/him]

20 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

 

Sh*t trailer

Please someone bring Rian back

 

I disagree...

Edit: I mean, not that I don’t like Rian—I really enjoyed TLJ, and I’m planning to see his next movie, Knives Out—but I think J.J.’s going to do a good job with it.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Jaywalk

[Briar King]

Ok the visuals are going to be fantastic no question about it but that trailer is without a doubt the single most boring trailer of the franchise that I’ve experienced yet.

 

yawn

[Use the Falchion]

I haven't been super excited for TROS. Part of it was due to burnout because of everything between TLJ and TROS.* The other part of it was the realization that what I wanted from - what I thought I NEEDED from - Star Wars just wasn't being provided to me. So I took a step back. 

Anyways, back to this trailer. I think every marketing piece of TROS has gotten me more excited. Have the trailers been good? I'd say so, but only good. They haven't been great, and I'm definitely not hyped after watching them...but they're good steps. 

 

(Edit: I also don't think that JJ has too much to do with the trailers. That's in the hands of the marketing department. JJ might tell them "leave out this shot," or "replace Dialogue A with Dialogue B," but after that, there probably isn't much he can do.)

 

 

*TLJ, is a beautiful, well-thought out movie; and Rian Johnson LOVES Star Wars and I want to see him direct more Star Wars movies. But at the end of the day, I realized he and I have seemingly different views of the world which lead to fundamental differences that make me not like the movie as much as I feel I should. Solo, on the other hand, is one of my favorite Star Wars movies and feels most like the OT. Even more-so than TFA, which people always claim is a rip-off of ANH! (To which they aren't exactly wrong, but they miss the brilliance of making TFA that way). 

Battlefront II is a well-documented travesty, despite how beautiful the game is. And Resistance Season 1 had moments of greatness, but it also doubled down on the "for kids" nature that Rebels started instead of becoming "for all ages" like shows like ALTA, The Dragon Prince, and even The Clone Wars (& Clone Wars) did. Season 2 so far has been a lot better, but if people don't make it past the first season, what's the point?

Edited October 24, 2019 by Use the Falchion

[Jaywalk he/him]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I loved the new trailer--I was almost in tears as I watched it. The music is absolutely amazing, the visuals are beautiful, and I feel like it did enough setup that I'm even more excited for the movie, without having felt like I was spoiled.

[Wyndlerunner he/him]

20 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I loved the new trailer--I was almost in tears as I watched it. The music is absolutely amazing, the visuals are beautiful, and I feel like it did enough setup that I'm even more excited for the movie, without having felt like I was spoiled.

Exactly! I recall making a post on this topic a few weeks ago,  and the gist of it was that anybody should be able to enjoy whatever Star Wars they so choose. So, some people might not like RoS, I probably will though.