Popular Post Cheese Ninja he/him Posted September 4, 2011 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 “…why Thaidakar would risk this?” Amaram was saying, speaking in a soft voice. “But who else would it be? The Ghostbloods grow more bold. We’ll need to find out who he was. Do we know anything about him?”“He was Veden, Brightlord,” the stormwarden said. “Nobody I recognize. But I will investigate.” Chapter takes place roughly one year ago.There was that matter of the strange collection of maps they’d found in his study. What did they mean? He’d rarely spoken of his plans to his children. Even her father’s advisors knew very little. Helaran—her eldest brother—had known more, but he had vanished over a year ago, and her father had proclaimed him dead. Shallan thinking of her father and brother. At the end of the book she is convinced that her father was part of the Ghostbloods. This quote is unclear whether Helaran's disappearance and proclamation of death happened at the same time, or separate occasions. I'm assuming separate occasions, which seems safe enough. Shallan and her family are Veden.If only Helaran had survived. Their eldest brother—then known as Nan Helaran, as he’d been the first son—had stood up to their father repeatedly. Well, he was dead now, and so was their father. They’d left behind a family of cripples. From Balat. That's all we know of Helaran, that he opposed their father, but was more involved in his plans than the rest of the family.So here's the theory, the Ghostblood leadership at that battle decided to loan Helaran a set of Plate and Blade, in order to sweep in, eliminate Amaram, and get out. They figured he and the loaned Shards be safe enough, since he wasn't going to get bogged down in fighting massive numbers, and no one at the battle would be able to oppose him one on one. Except Kaladin, whom no one expected. At this point, only the Ghostbloods and possibly Amaram know who Kaladin killed. I'm expecting a very minor bit of unexplained reaction from Amaram when he encounters Shallan at the Shattered Plains. And eventually a very awkward conversation between Kaladin and Shallan, but not that she will be able to justifiably blame him for any of it. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame he/him Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It's the most solid theory I've heard on the subject, but I've got a couple of issues with it. Less to do with Helaran being a Ghostblood (almost certain in my books), and more to do with the assassination aspect of it. 1. What is it that makes Amaram important enough to the Ghostbloods for them to risk two Shards to take him out? (Resolved easily enough, less that it prevents the theory and more that I just need more detail.) 2. Why would Helaran engage with the soldiers at all? Why not either avoid the battle altogether or just ignore them and dash through? The battle was more in pockets of soldiers than a mass of people, why not just go between groups and head straight for the encampment? (Again, not much of a criticism of the theory itself, but it does somewhat throw into doubt the aims of this mission. Maybe the Ghostbloods have some way to see into the future, maybe through use of Cultivation's magic, and know how big a role Kaladin will play and wanted him out of the picture? Just, again, need more detail.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It's the most solid theory I've heard on the subject, but I've got a couple of issues with it. Less to do with Helaran being a Ghostblood (almost certain in my books), and more to do with the assassination aspect of it. 1. What is it that makes Amaram important enough to the Ghostbloods for them to risk two Shards to take him out? (Resolved easily enough, less that it prevents the theory and more that I just need more detail.) 2. Why would Helaran engage with the soldiers at all? Why not either avoid the battle altogether or just ignore them and dash through? The battle was more in pockets of soldiers than a mass of people, why not just go between groups and head straight for the encampment? (Again, not much of a criticism of the theory itself, but it does somewhat throw into doubt the aims of this mission. Maybe the Ghostbloods have some way to see into the future, maybe through use of Cultivation's magic, and know how big a role Kaladin will play and wanted him out of the picture? Just, again, need more detail.) 1. Not sure of the specifics, but anyone with Plate and Blade should be nearly invincible except to an experienced dual Shard holder. 2. The Thrill. Think of it the way people play GTA, seemingly infinite power against pedestrians and some small time Cops, a bit of mayhem can be fun. Add to this the Thrill that creeps into (at least) the Shardbearers, and I could easily see someone wading into a battle swinging their mist sword around, killing scores of infantry, wearing their magic armor regardless of their original mission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashyma she/her Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 It's the most solid theory I've heard on the subject, but I've got a couple of issues with it. Less to do with Helaran being a Ghostblood (almost certain in my books), and more to do with the assassination aspect of it. 1. What is it that makes Amaram important enough to the Ghostbloods for them to risk two Shards to take him out? (Resolved easily enough, less that it prevents the theory and more that I just need more detail.) 2. Why would Helaran engage with the soldiers at all? Why not either avoid the battle altogether or just ignore them and dash through? The battle was more in pockets of soldiers than a mass of people, why not just go between groups and head straight for the encampment? (Again, not much of a criticism of the theory itself, but it does somewhat throw into doubt the aims of this mission. Maybe the Ghostbloods have some way to see into the future, maybe through use of Cultivation's magic, and know how big a role Kaladin will play and wanted him out of the picture? Just, again, need more detail.) 2. It'd be less suspicious if Amaram was killed in battle-remember, the Shardbearer'd identity as a Ghostblood was probably discovered by their finding this tattoo: They call themselvesthe Ghostbloods.” She pulled out a sheet. “Your friend Kabsal was one. We found their symbol tattooed on the inside of his arm.” If he had succeeded in killing Amaram, it'd just be another casualty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageHead he/him Posted September 4, 2011 Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 1. What is it that makes Amaram important enough to the Ghostbloods for them to risk two Shards to take him out? (Resolved easily enough, less that it prevents the theory and more that I just need more detail.) Probably nothing to do with Amaram, other than that he was the marshal overseeing the lands of Sadeas, one of the most powerful and loyal of Elhokar's subjects. A good way to destabilise the King's rule would be to fracture his forces, and Sadeas would almost certainly have to return with a large portion of his armies if the guy he left in charge got killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ness Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Probably nothing to do with Amaram, other than that he was the marshal overseeing the lands of Sadeas, one of the most powerful and loyal of Elhokar's subjects. A good way to destabilise the King's rule would be to fracture his forces, and Sadeas would almost certainly have to return with a large portion of his armies if the guy he left in charge got killed. If Amaram was nobody significant, than why in the world does he know about the ghostbloods? It's clearly not common knowledge. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted November 22, 2011 Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 The problem I see with it is that Shallan's father apparently had a Shardblade when he died, so unless their family had two I can't see why Helaran wouldn't have used that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunblesser Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 The problem I see with it is that Shallan's father apparently had a Shardblade when he died, so unless their family had two I can't see why Helaran wouldn't have used that one. my theory is that if helaran was the man killed by kaladin, he was using a shardblade given him by the ghostbloods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I love this theory for tying together loose ends that I had ignored. These Ghostbloods seem to be drowning in supposedly rare Shard-arms. Who's behind them? I like the previous comment about Amaram being killed causing instability as a motivation. Who gains from Alethan instability? Odium? Other kings? Highprinces? I think the battle was between Alethans, but perhaps the Vedan king is wants to weaken Sadeas and Alethkar in general and provided generous assistance to one faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Actually we don't have any proof that the Ghostbloods have the missing Blades and Plate, but there certainly are much more of them in existence than believed by the majority of characters in the series. I wouldn't be surprised if they did have at least some of them, in fact, this theory pretty much depends on it. But if Shallan and her brother were right, the Ghostbloods were working towards making her father a Veden High Prince, so I don't think they would have had support from the already established Veden princedoms. Honestly, we don't have a nearly enough information about the political situations in Roshar to make informed decisions. Between Taravangian's assassinations of leaders and the Ghostbloods covert activities, (including the attempted murder of the King of Alethkar's older sister) there's a quite a lot going on behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well, let's do some math. There were ten orders of the Knights Radient. At Feverstone Keep, the Stonewards and Windrunners totaled about three hundred. Let's assume that was all of them, so there would be an average of 150 knights per order. 150*10 = 1500 sets of blade and plate. That is, um, a lot more than are accounted for. Even assuming that the parts of the world with minimal contact have an equal number of Shards, which isn't too likely when the Knights were based in Alethkar, we're still short by maybe a thousand sets. Now, it's quite possible a number of shards ended up at the bottom of the ocean or some similarly inaccessible location. But over half of them? That's not likely at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted November 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Oh, the Blades and Plate have definitely been hidden away over the years, but there's no way for us to know who did it at this point. If one of the Heralds felt like it, he or she could have been going around claiming Shardblades for the last few hundred or thousand since the Recreance. Would be funny to see that character die. It sounds odd, but just imagine the rain of Shardblades. Plate on the other hand would actually have to be hidden... Or would it? The Knights Radiants in Dalinar's earlier visions made their helmets appear and disappear at will. More likely the Blades and Plate have been claimed by various factions and hidden away over the years, but a concerted effort would be extremely noteworthy in its own right. The three most valuable things in Roshar are Blades, Plates, and Soulcasters. The motivation behind hiding those bits of wealth hasn't been made clear so far. I can understand why any Heralds who picked them up would hide them, because they are extremely dangerous, but I don't know why these other conspiratorial organizations do so. By the way, I think the Parshendi are supplied their Shardblades by whichever Herald(s) are backing them. But I think that they only have a small fraction of the missing sets, which as name_here pointed out, easily surpass a thousand in totality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelek he/him Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Possible theory here as to the location of missing plate and blades. The Shin are hiding them. 1. Look at what they say about Szeth. When he dies, they will "recover it" 2. They have an aversion to warfare. Who better to hide them. They won't be used. 3. Szeth found his own blade there where none were supposed to be. (could relate to his being Truthless) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindSpren she/her Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Ooo interesting! Kind of reminds me about the irony of the Wheel of Time prophecy of the Stone of Tear falling when the Dragon wields the Sword that is not a Sword, except no one was allowed in but the High Lords of Tear. Possible theory here as to the location of missing plate and blades. The Shin are hiding them. 1. Look at what they say about Szeth. When he dies, they will "recover it" 2. They have an aversion to warfare. Who better to hide them. They won't be used. 3. Szeth found his own blade there where none were supposed to be. (could relate to his being Truthless) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jacob Santos Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 During one of the flashbacks (visions) that Delinar has, the king specifically curses another for causing a war before the desolation came. That event caused far more deaths than what would had otherwise been felt. What now? The order is disbanded, not many know of their power, it appears that even the King doesn't know of his power, so how many exist now that have power of the radiants, but don't know of it. What good would they be scattered? The only way for victory would be to join those that have powers back into the Radiant orders of old. That would be extremely difficult. Of course, I mean it is offset by the machinations of the fabrials. Therefore, many more have the power of the Radiants than before, so it might well work out better. I love this theory for tying together loose ends that I had ignored. These Ghostbloods seem to be drowning in supposedly rare Shard-arms. Who's behind them? I like the previous comment about Amaram being killed causing instability as a motivation. Who gains from Alethan instability? Odium? Other kings? Highprinces? I think the battle was between Alethans, but perhaps the Vedan king is wants to weaken Sadeas and Alethkar in general and provided generous assistance to one faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeshdan he/him Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 What if The Envisagers (or some relative thereof) have been spending the last few centuries stockpiling Shards so as to have them available when the Radiants show up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom he/him Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 What I wanna know is this: Who is Restares? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan he/him Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 What I wanna know is this: Who is Restares? Not to doubt your sincerity, Peter, but I suspect that you already know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayonn Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 What I wanna know is this: Who is Restares? Someone whose importance we've overlooked? =P Perhaps Amaram belongs to a rival organization to the Ghostbloods, of which Restares is the head. (How many secret organizations are there? I feel like I'm multiplying hypotheses...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callumke he/him Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Well, Restares is mentioned twice in the book. Glad I have an ebook version for searching... Firstly, Restares is a candidate Gavilar lists as a possible murderer, and later when Amaram is deciding Kaladin's fate, he says that Restares persuaded him of something. It took hours to decide, but Restares is right - this is what must be done. For the good of Alethkar. I don't think we really can tell much about him, other than he is important. Blood of my Fathers, Peter, you can be frustrating 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Well, if he was working with Amaram, he's probably not a Ghostblood. At a guess, he's some sort of moderately-powerful brightlord who was unhappy with the New Alethi Order, over and above any secret society memberships. Could be he's Sadeas's civilian administrator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus he/him Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Well, if he was working with Amaram, he's probably not a Ghostblood. At a guess, he's some sort of moderately-powerful brightlord who was unhappy with the New Alethi Order, over and above any secret society memberships. Could be he's Sadeas's civilian administrator. As I've pointed out before in a different thread: Restares' presence with Amaram points to him being of moderate power, but he's also Gavilar's second choice as the person who wants him dead. This doesn't sound like a person of moderate power. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Amaram is far more important than Kaladin (and possibly Amaram himself) thinks he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted December 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) Restares could be Taravangian. If Amaram was communicating by spanreed, his physical location wouldn't matter. From Amaram's brief comment, Restares seems willing to sacrifice innocents for the sake of the perceived "greater good". Which coincides with Taravangian's views. Edit: Also, I find it odd to see Peter posting in a speculation thread. I imagined that he read them, but tried to only post in mechanics threads. If he let himself post in speculation threads, he might inadvertently give things away... Edited December 20, 2011 by Cheese Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom he/him Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Edit: Also, I find it odd to see Peter posting in a speculation thread. I imagined that he read them, but tried to only post in mechanics threads. If he let himself post in speculation threads, he might inadvertently give things away... You must not know me very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted December 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 You must not know me very well. I regretfully do not. In the case of Brandon I have a large pool of writings and interviews to draw from in constructing a mental image of him. In your case I am limited to forum posts and the knowledge that you are Brandon's friend and assistant. If I detected a shade of frustration (in regards to keeping up with revealed Cosmere info) when I read your response to Brandon's revelation of Taravangian's fluctuating IQ, perhaps I was incorrect and simply projecting the emotions I would feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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