Possible Future Developments for Renarin/Adolin

[LuzdeTormenta]

First topic/ theory. Hopefully I did everything right.

Two possible paths I foresee for Renarin regarding his relationship with Adolin:

1. Becomes an awesome Knight. Adolin is his squire.

^ this is what I *want* to see happen.

Alas, this is what I think will actually happen:

2. Renarin becomes an awesome knight and foresees his brother going down an evil path and has to choose between his family and his oaths.

What do you guys think? Maybe a combination of the two? Any other ideas?

Anyone else get a feeling of impending doom waiting for Adolin?

[maxal]

Well, I think option 1 has very little chance of happening. Adolin is not cut of to be a Truthwatcher, even less a squire for a Truthwatcher.  I agree it could be nice to their roles being reversed (and I think it will happen at some level), but I do not think a knight to squire relationship is bond to happen between the brothers.

 

What I think is more likely to happen is a fallout. Adolin is not in a nice place right now. Too many things happened to him in a very sort time and the world has he know it just shifted. He doesn't know where he belongs nor where he fits in all this and that is quite a new feeling for him. Based on the events of WoR, I do think it is quite likely both brothers won't talk much. Renarin obviously does not want to confide in his brother about his new powers or else he would have talked to him already. Adolin will most likely take this the hard way as his little brother, his only friend, not only spends more time with bridge 4 nowadays, but also kept something as huge as Radiant powers from him. Adolin may feel betrayed by all this and will most likely isolate himself from his family.

 

We also know both brothers are close and we know Renarin reads Adolin very easily. It is not hard to imagine Adolin not wanting to have his brother guess about his latest deeds. On his side, Renarin will think his brother is rejecting him and won't dig any further because he'll think the problem is him and not Adolin. They could very well be drifting apart because of all this.

 

As for Renarin seeing something in the future for Adolin, it is quite possible. I like the idea of Renarin being torn between his oath or his family. It would be a very very nice plot twist.

 

I have been having a feeling of impending doom for Adolin since the beginning of WoR. I was convinced he would end up losing all his family's shards in an unfair fight that would leave him seriously hurt. I also had the feeling Dalinar obsession over the strict obedience of the Way of Kings without any discernment would send Adolin to his doom at some point. After reading WoR, I am more convinced of the latest. Either Dalinar will react harshly or Adolin will auto-punish himself as he thinks Dalinar would like him to, but in the end, the law will prevail (even if the law is completely unfair) and Adolin will be the sour loser. Dalinar will bite his tail afterwards and realize what he has done. Lots of Kohlin family angst in perspective.

 

Edit: spoilers

Edited May 18, 2014 by maxal

[Aleksiel]

WoR spoilers:

I think Adolin will be pretty frustrated Ren didn't share with him something so important. He'll wonder what else his little brother might be hididng. Also, Adolin will have hard time swallowing his new position. The only two non-Radiant in his family are a king and a former queen. Yep, suddenly Adolin looks like the disappointment 

I don't expect him to develop any grudge towards Ren, just to step aside. That will hurt Ren. He needs Adolin now even more with all the attention he'll get.

 

Adolin is too proud to be anyone's squire. Don't get me wrong, eh how can I explain it... I don't see it in his personality to be someone who can live in anyone's shadow, he must shine on his own. My best hopes are for Adolin to awaken his Blade and thus make himself a Radiant. Not because a spren chosen him, but because he chose it himself. Get the difference? 

 

I doubt either will go anti-hero, let alone evil. Nah, they'll stay good. It might take a whole book to fix their relationship however. Adolin won't have any ill feelings towards Ren, but his self-esteem will drop and he'll become more distant, which will hurt Ren. He won't bring it to Adolin, but feel lonely. 

 

Adolin has a skeleton in his closet now. I don't see him sharing it with his family. He might talk to Shallan or Kaladin. Ah, I so want their bromance to continue. 

 

So, I don't see Adolin as anyone's squire. He'll awaken his Blade.

 

Renarin... He'll refound the Men of Letters. Probably not in the next book or two, but eventually. 

 

edit: spelling, tagging spoilers

 

Uh, also, sorry about the spoilers. Are we discussing post-WoR Adolin/Renarin dynamics or should I edit it with what I expected their relationship to be after WoK? 

Edited May 18, 2014 by Aleksiel

[king of nowhere]

yeah, i don't see adolin becoming a bad guy. granted, i didn't see it with

moash

either, but that was a completely different case. also, adolin has too many good people around him. unless shallan suddenly decides to romance kaladin, thus depriving adolin of his newfound girlfriend and fire-forged friend. and no, i really don't see that happening.

they may have strained relations, that for sure.

[LuzdeTormenta]

So, I posted this topic whilst on my mobile and thought that I was posting it under the WoR discussion.  Sorry all!  

 

How do I go about requesting it be moved?  

 

I have a lot of replies and thoughts but I currently have a toddler driving a car on my arm and begging to go for a walk so I will hopefully figure this out after bedtime!  Thanks for being gracious!  

[maxal]

WoR spoilers:

 

So, I don't see Adolin as anyone's squire. He'll awaken his Blade.

 

 

I am so hoping for this

 

WoR spoilers:

I think Adolin will be pretty frustrated Ren didn't share with him something so important. He'll wonder what else his little brother might be hididng. Also, Adolin will have hard time swallowing his new position. The only two non-Radiant in his family are a king and a former queen. Yep, suddenly Adolin looks like the disappointment 

I don't expect him to develop any grudge towards Ren, just to step aside. That will hurt Ren. He needs Adolin now even more with all the attention he'll get.

 

Adolin is too proud to be anyone's squire. Don't get me wrong, eh how can I explain it... I don't see it in his personality to be someone who can live in anyone's shadow, he must shine on his own. My best hopes are for Adolin to awaken his Blade and thus make himself a Radiant. Not because a spren chosen him, but because he chose it himself. Get the difference? 

 

I doubt either will go anti-hero, let alone evil. Nah, they'll stay good. It might take a whole book to fix their relationship however. Adolin won't have any ill feelings towards Ren, but his self-esteem will drop and he'll become more distant, which will hurt Ren. He won't bring it to Adolin, but feel lonely. 

 

Adolin has a skeleton in his closet now. I don't see him sharing it with his family. He might talk to Shallan or Kaladin. Ah, I so want their bromance to continue. 

 

So, I don't see Adolin as anyone's squire. He'll awaken his Blade.

 

Renarin... He'll refound the Men of Letters. Probably not in the next book or two, but eventually. 

 

 

Yep. I agree with you all the way.

 

Adolin just can't be anyone's squire. He will be knight or nothing

 

I agree he may tell Kaladin right before he leaves. He knows how Kal wants to kill Amaram so he'll figure he would understand. Besides Adolin just cannot keep things inside, he'll need to tell someone. Kal would indeed understand. He'll tell Adolin to hang on, to not tell Dalinar of all people and that no matter what happens, he'll have his back. This confidence would cement their friendship

 

I do not think he'll tell Shallan though. I think Shallan will be very busy in book 3 and with her family finally being safe, she won't feel so much pressure to make the relationship work. She won't have much time for Adolin. Now knowing how anxious Adolin is about relationship and how he half expects it to collapse, he'll probably read that as a sign she is not interested anymore. This will hurt him very badly as I think he really loves her.

 

Eventually, things will blow. Adolin will most probably end up outside the city, exiled, and will probably encounter trouble as pretty much everyone wants to get back at him for humiliating half the camp dueling.

 

Renarin, with the help of his visions, will piece up together the whole story and he'll feel horrible for not understanding what was going on with his brother in time.

 

Dalinar will realize he is sacrificing his son to unite Alethkar. He'll go mad and the Blackthorn will come back momentarily

 

And then stuff will happen. We'll find out Elhokar is behind some of it and he is glad to get rid of this annoying cousin who probably played thousand of pranks against him as a kid

 

In the end, all the family will get back together. Adolin will try to sacrifice himself to save them, somehow, as he considers himself expendable for not being a KR or a king. He'll die the heroic death, but his last words will be the oath to KR. The bond with his blade will be severed as he "dies", but the events will shake the spren out of its death and it will claim him as his own.

 

Something along the lines would be a nice read, but it probably won't happen as predictions rarely do

[Aleksiel]

Oh, don't you dare touch Elhokar! I wrote you one essay in his defense, don't make me post another 

 

Hm, dying Adolin speaking an Oath and stormlight healing bringing him back? Sounds cool, but may be a bit over dramatic? Like, you know, Kal's third Oath  I have this feeling Adolin will probably die. But I thought someone (anyone) from WoK will die in WoR, so I could be wrong. Adolin's death will be painful for both readers and other characters, forcing them to manage without him. Ren seems relatively save in the long run.

 

Things between Shallan and Adolin falling apart, that will break his heart! Poor boy. However, I don't know if he loves her. Sure, it's a crush, but love? May be Adolin will end up a relationship for once? Shallan's family is really dislikable if you ask me.

 

Adolin's relationship with both Ren and Shallan will suffer to some degree, but I don't think he'll run away. Rather he'll do something very reckless, may be endangering his life and Ren will come to the rescue? Brandon has this fail-fail-win pattern with his characters and so far Renarin has unsuccessfully tried to save Adolin twice (right?), so there has to be a third successful time.

[LuzdeTormenta]

 

Adolin's relationship with both Ren and Shallan will suffer to some degree, but I don't think he'll run away. Rather he'll do something very reckless, may be endangering his life and Ren will come to the rescue? Brandon has this fail-fail-win pattern with his characters and so far Renarin has unsuccessfully tried to save Adolin twice (right?), so there has to be a third successful time.

Hmmm, I hadn't noticed the fail-fail-win pattern before, so I didn't think about it that way but maybe you are right. I was seeing only a very dark or at least very difficult future ahead for Adolin. I still haven't ruled out the possibility of him turning. I think there is a very strong chance that he will turn. I would like to see Renarin definitively rescuing Adolin.

[maxal]

Oh, don't you dare touch Elhokar! I wrote you one essay in his defense, don't make me post another 

 

 

But but but he is so unlikable, unsympathetic..... He whines all the times, don't you hate when characters get whiny? I would really enjoy reading a dark Elhokar seeking revenge against his overbearing family

 

 

 

Hm, dying Adolin speaking an Oath and stormlight healing bringing him back? Sounds cool, but may be a bit over dramatic? Like, you know, Kal's third Oath  I have this feeling Adolin will probably die. But I thought someone (anyone) from WoK will die in WoR, so I could be wrong. Adolin's death will be painful for both readers and other characters, forcing them to manage without him. Ren seems relatively save in the long run.

 

 

Something along the line, but yeah it would be very dramatic... I really want to see some Kohlin family teary moments..... I may have gotten a little carried away with that one. I absolutely do not want to see Adolin die    It would indeed be very painful. GRRM at least had the sense to kill off characters we don't care so much about. Which is why I think if he ends up dying the heroic death as many foretold, he will either get heal by Renarin or by stormlight.

 

 

Things between Shallan and Adolin falling apart, that will break his heart! Poor boy. However, I don't know if he loves her. Sure, it's a crush, but love? May be Adolin will end up a relationship for once? Shallan's family is really dislikable if you ask me.

 

 

I think he does or he really is on the way to get there. As for him breaking up a relationship, he already did: with Danlan She said horrible things about him to her friends and he ended up the relationship. I think it would really hurt if he thinks the one girl he actually like does not want to be with him... Each time he antagonizes over what he did wrong, but this time, he did nothing wrong and still it fails? Remember how the first heart crush hurts......

 

 

Adolin's relationship with both Ren and Shallan will suffer to some degree, but I don't think he'll run away. Rather he'll do something very reckless, may be endangering his life and Ren will come to the rescue? Brandon has this fail-fail-win pattern with his characters and so far Renarin has unsuccessfully tried to save Adolin twice (right?), so there has to be a third successful time.

 

Oh I think he may run away... He may see it as the only honorable thing to do. He may think that by going rogue he removes any blame to Dalinar for Sadeas murder. He may think his father won't have what it takes to punish him as he deserves and would thus endanger the unity he is trying to create. He may especially think he does not matter anymore since he is no KR, he may think it is his duty to sacrifice himself for his family/country good. It would be a very reckless, stupid and dangerous thing to do. Adolin has no friends out there and many enemies.

 

I agree he'll probably put himself in danger somehow and it would be really sweet if Renarin came to the rescue. I love this idea. However, Renarin tried to save Adolin only once... The first time, it was Dalinar he tried to save.

[Crysanja]

ok my take on this

 

someone of the good guys has to die, Renarin seems kind of importand as well as most of the others.

but hey there is Adolin, who seems not realy importand at all.

 

 

on another hand, i could see some need to split the worldly powers.

 

i would go as far as to say that a KR(Dalinar) shouldnt be a highprince.

being a KR will be alot of work. educate/train more KR for one thing.

 

 

but there is the Desolation too, so the KR might need to be highly mobile to help as many as possible.

this seems to make it very difficult to be a good, responceable highprince at the same time.

 

 

so i realy hope that Adolin will not become a KR, but replace Dalinar as highprince.

[maxal]

ok my take on this

 

someone of the good guys has to die, Renarin seems kind of importand as well as most of the others.

but hey there is Adolin, who seems not realy importand at all.

 

I agree someone has to die, which is why I think it should be Elhokar :ph34r:

 

Not Adolin who is everything but unimportant    For one, he is Dalinar's heir and third in line to the kingdom. If something happens to Elhokar and his son, than Adolin becomes the next king right after Dalinar. He is also the Golden Boy of the family, the one Dalinar has placed all his hopes on, but he arbors this rebellious streak... He is not fully comfortable with the Alethki ways. He does not agree Sadeas should be allowed to walk free just because it is not his hand that held the knife that killed 6000 Kohlin soldiers. He has issues with letting people insult him and his family and yet not do anything about it because it would be un-Alethki. He goes on a befriend a darkeye. He sat in prison for him and he gave him a shardplate and a shardblade. The last time a darkeye was allowed to possess such was centuries ago and yet Adolin goes about and gives them to Kaladin. Worst, when Kal refuses them and asks to give them to Moash, another darkeye, Adolin says yes. He questions why the beauty standard for Alethki has to be lighteyes and dark hairs. He thinks it is a strange ideal and he expresses a certain liking for diversity, especially in terms of hair colors... He goes and ask Kaladin, a darkeye, about how to deal with women.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Adolin would be the one to bring down the barrier between both worlds.

 

I could also add how he takes down Sadaes which would probably have all the lighteyes horrified and all the darkeyes cheering......

 

Plus he is a badass warrior, a skilled swordsman and he would awesome as a KR. You will need someone like him to win the Desolation. Dalinar can't do it all on his own and Renarin is not a warrior.

[Aleksiel]

I agree someone has to die, which is why I think it should be Elhokar :ph34r:

 

Not Adolin who is everything but unimportant 

 

The Kholins:

Elhokar - the king

Dalinar - renowned warlord and KR

Jasnah - renowned scholar and KR

Renarin - KR

Navani - renowned  engineer and former queen

Adolin - Shardbearer

He suddenly sound like the family  disappointment 

 

Joke aside, Adolin is more likely to die than Elhokar, because his death will effect all major characters - Dalinar, Shallan, Renarin, even Kaladin. And the readers will feel their loss as well. So far, I see Adolin as the first Kholin who will die. 

Edited May 19, 2014 by Aleksiel

[maxal]

The Kholins:

Elhokar - the king

Dalinar - renowned warlord and KR

Jasnah - renowned scholar and KR

Renarin - KR

Navani - renowned  engineer and former queen

Adolin - Shardbearer

He suddenly sound like the family  disappointment 

 

Joke aside, Adolin is more likely to die than Elhokar, because his death will effect all major characters - Dalinar, Shallan, Renarin, even Kaladin. And the readers will feel their loss as well. So far, I see Adolin as the first Kholin who will die. 

 

But he is the most sympathetic of the whole lot! He has a bromance going on with Kal... He is Big Brother of the Year. He can't die. Brandon can go and kill Elhokar, Szeth and Mr T or even Navani is a Kohlin has to absolutely bite the dust , but not Adolin. I would be too frustrating as a reader to read such scene. Besides, he has a nice story arc going on now, it would be boring to just get rid of him this way.

[Aleksiel]

Or Kaladin could just add Adolin to his list of people he failed. There are too few women as it is, so Navani and Janah stay for now. Elhokar has the possibility of achieving a great character growth and so does Renarin. Adolin's death will have a big impact on everyone and certainly won't be boring. Dalinar could also die, just not too soon.

[maxal]

Or Kaladin could just add Adolin to his list of people he failed. There are too few women as it is, so Navani and Janah stay for now. Elhokar has the possibility of achieving a great character growth and so does Renarin. Adolin's death will have a big impact on everyone and certainly won't be boring. Dalinar could also die, just not too soon.

 

Brandon could just add a women or two to make things even or kill Elhokar Besides I believe Adolin has much more room for character development than Elhokar. Elhokar and/or Renarin have the potential to become great people. Elhokar could learn to be a real king and Renarin could learn to be a good KR. They can only improve or go evil in the case of Elhokar Adolin however is one that has been successful, but is forced on a downward path as the world is changing but not him. He had it all and he will have to deal with losing it all. He could rise up to the occasion or fail pathetically or become someone else entirely. Between all stories, he currently has the one I am most interested in reading. All characters we have met so far have been broken some time in the past, not Adolin. With him, we get to see it happen, live. We get to see him reach the bottom as the story unfold, not as flashbacks. With flashbacks, we already know what has happened, we know how the story ends, not with Adolin, we just don't know. His death would be extremely painful for me as a reader and I am sure I am not the only one there.

 

But of course, this is just my personal opinion.

 

I agree however that Dalinar may very well die, but I have been expecting this since the beginning so it won't leave me to traumatize unless Brandon kills him off ridiculously early such as in next book.

[Aleksiel]

Adolin's death will move all other major characters, that's why I think he'll likely die. It's not a Desolation if most characters get to live! Not that I want Brandon to go all GRRM or anything....

[maxal]

Adolin's death will move all other major characters, that's why I think he'll likely die. It's not a Desolation if most characters get to live! Not that I want Brandon to go all GRRM or anything....

 

So would Elhokar's death    How would Kal react after learning the one man he was sworn to protect died? After he went to so much trouble protecting him? After the whole dilemna he had over killing or not killing him? And Navani? And Dalinar who voices is liking of Elhokar many times over? Adolin's death would be painful to Dalinar and Renarin. Elhokar's death would be painful to more people: Dalinar, Navani, Kaladin, Jasnah.

 

Elhokar wins

 

Honestly, I really really do not want to see Adolin die any time soon. It would be like if GRRM kills of Jon Snow or something.

[Aleksiel]

Most reader will either be glad to get rid of Elhokar or feel nothing. Elhokar's death won't have an impact on the reader. Unlike Adolin's. So, I revise my statement - Adolin is the likeliest to die because of the affect his death will have on both major characters and readers.

[Chrono]

Hrm. This is an interesting dilemma, mainly because we know that Adolin and Renarin are incredibly tight, but Adolin kinda went off the deep end at the end of WoR. I for one would love to see Renarin trust in Adolin and talk about Glys. We get the feeling that the main reason he didn't talk about it is because he thought he was cursed ("Almighty, why have you cursed me so?) or because, you know, seeing the future is kind of a huge taboo in Vorin culture. I think it'd lift Adolin's spirits if Renarin started talking to him again.

 

Now, of course, there's the possibility that Renarin still won't confide in Adolin, that Adolin will grow jealous of Renarin because he has super-cool Radiant powers, that Renarin will be too busy to talk to Adolin, or that Adolin will be so consumed with guilt that he'll cut himself off from his family. Either way, it's going to be hard for everyone. 

[maxal]

Hrm. This is an interesting dilemma, mainly because we know that Adolin and Renarin are incredibly tight, but Adolin kinda went off the deep end at the end of WoR. I for one would love to see Renarin trust in Adolin and talk about Glys. We get the feeling that the main reason he didn't talk about it is because he thought he was cursed ("Almighty, why have you cursed me so?) or because, you know, seeing the future is kind of a huge taboo in Vorin culture. I think it'd lift Adolin's spirits if Renarin started talking to him again.

 

Now, of course, there's the possibility that Renarin still won't confide in Adolin, that Adolin will grow jealous of Renarin because he has super-cool Radiant powers, that Renarin will be too busy to talk to Adolin, or that Adolin will be so consumed with guilt that he'll cut himself off from his family. Either way, it's going to be hard for everyone. 

 

I do not see Adolin getting jealous. He's had opportunity to get jealous before and he didn't. I think, based on what I understand of his character, his most probable reaction would be to think he is the issue. It'd probably bring down his self-esteem. I do see both brothers not talking for the same reason you mentioned.

 

It would be hard for everyone, yes, but Adolin does not need to die for it to happen.

 

 

Most reader will either be glad to get rid of Elhokar or feel nothing. Elhokar's death won't have an impact on the reader. Unlike Adolin's. So, I revise my statement - Adolin is the likeliest to die because of the affect his death will have on both major characters and readers.

 

Sadly, you are right about that one I still do not think he has to die. A writer does not need to kill of his major characters to create an impression, especially once you've had time to grow attached to them. Bradon already pull that one out with Mistborn. I hope he won't feel compel to do it again.

[kari-no-sugata]

Elhokar sure doesn't get much love. Mostly just derision. Nohadan was right - sure is tough being king

 

Does make me wonder where Brandon is going with him. It doesn't feel like he could work as a bad guy. From listening to stuff like Writing Excuses, I'm sure Brandon is entirely aware of how most readers would see him, so he must have some interesting plans for the guy to do this deliberately. Poor guy has Marie Antoinette for a wife too.

 

Elhokar's trauma for the last 6 years has been about the Assassin in White, who is now officially dead. So, he should be feeling happy about that. And the war against the Parshendi has been won as a bonus. All good? Nope, his wife just decided to start a riot in the capital. I wonder if she and the baby are even alive. Oh, and the world's about to end too.

 

I think Elhokar's problem as a king/person is he doesn't really have a strong sense of how to go about achieving what he wants to do. This makes his leadership inconsistent and incoherent. It's also a difficult hole to dig yourself out of.

 

I wouldn't shed a tear for him if Elhokar went sleep-walking in the middle of the night and fell off Urithru tower never to be seen again. I just don't see Brandon doing that though.

[maxal]

I wouldn't shed a tear for him if Elhokar went sleep-walking in the middle of the night and fell off Urithru tower never to be seen again. I just don't see Brandon doing that though.

 

Maybe not, but I still do not want to see him getting this nice character development plot where he gets to become this amazing person while someone nice and likable such as Adolin gets axe down for no other reason it would hurt people. This would be the worst possible read for me.

 

He may have very good reasons to be where he currently is, it does not change the fact he is despicable. He sabotages Adolin incredible effort in a 4 against 1 duel just out of spite for a darkeye being momentarily out of his place. He knew the plan before hand and yet he destroys it just so he could claim "I am the king, I make the decision". He throws Kal into prison for saving his cousins life just because of a misplaced boon. He is so childish he does not even listen to Dalinar trying to explain him to let it go. He still hung up to his bad decisions even when he is proven wrong just to prove he has some authority. Bottom line, Elhokar is a bully. He picks on anyone he is able to pick on just to assert his leadership. He is not even able to remain faithful to his allies.

 

I would feel sorry for him if he at least tried, but he doesn't. Each time we see him make a bad decision it is always the same pattern: he goes on doing something stupid just because "he is the king and everyone should listen to him". I get that he feels sorry for himself and wants to be a better king, but he just does not take the means to do so. All he does is wallow in self-pity. Besides even if he did try for real, he still let his young cousins fight alone a duel to the death and did nothing to stop it (or help). For me this is inexcusable.

[Chrono]

You might be giving Elhokar the short hand of the stick here. Yes, he's a brat. Yes, I wouldn't shed a tear if Szeth suddenly came, killed him, then disappeared without a trace. But that doesn't mean he's not trying. Remember the scene in Kaladin's barracks? Even though he instantly killed the effect by being bratty again, he lowers himself down to Kaladin's level and admits he has a problem. Doing that, even though he certainly did it in a fairly annoying way, is true humility. Brat Elhokar actually fessing up that he made a mistake? At least give him pointers for that.

 

Also, as to Elhokar destroying the plan with Adolin and the duel, Kaladin also botched it as much as he did. Kaladin knew at least as much as Elhokar did, blatantly went against Lighteye political protocol, all so that he could pretty much satisfy a grudge and get some revenge. Elhokar seriously let his brattiness get in the way, but if Kaladin had just stayed quiet and kept his temper under control, the entire situation never would have happened.

[maxal]

You might be giving Elhokar the short hand of the stick here. Yes, he's a brat. Yes, I wouldn't shed a tear if Szeth suddenly came, killed him, then disappeared without a trace. But that doesn't mean he's not trying. Remember the scene in Kaladin's barracks? Even though he instantly killed the effect by being bratty again, he lowers himself down to Kaladin's level and admits he has a problem. Doing that, even though he certainly did it in a fairly annoying way, is true humility. Brat Elhokar actually fessing up that he made a mistake? At least give him pointers for that.

 

Also, as to Elhokar destroying the plan with Adolin and the duel, Kaladin also botched it as much as he did. Kaladin knew at least as much as Elhokar did, blatantly went against Lighteye political protocol, all so that he could pretty much satisfy a grudge and get some revenge. Elhokar seriously let his brattiness get in the way, but if Kaladin had just stayed quiet and kept his temper under control, the entire situation never would have happened.

 

You are right about Kaladin. However, I tend to forgive him as Kaladin does not really comprehend the rules of dueling as Adolin points out later on. Kaladin should have known better, but at least, he, has good reasons for doing what he did. Elhokar, on the other hand, uses this event to assert his authority being showing he can piss farther than Dalinar....

[Aleksiel]

You are right about Kaladin. However, I tend to forgive him as Kaladin does not really comprehend the rules of dueling as Adolin points out later on. Kaladin should have known better, but at least, he, has good reasons for doing what he did. Elhokar, on the other hand, uses this event to assert his authority being showing he can piss farther than Dalinar....

 

It wasn't just the duel. Kaladin has been disrespectful for a long time. Speaking when it wasn't his place, leaving the room without paying respect to the king (Adolin noted that after Szeth's assassination attempt), being overall not caring for the court etiquette. I was surprised Dalinar tolerated him that long, let alone Elhokar. Kaladin did something brave and amazing in WoK, that doesn't excuse him of all sorts of behavior. He was really pushing it too far.

 

Also, the king can't just ignore some lowly darkeyed, who just publicly insulted him, despite what Adolin claimed. Can you really imagine any ruler doing that? Because I can't. Dalinar almost dueled Sadeas when he insulted Renarin, and Sadeas and Dalinar are equals, plus the insult wasn't a public one. What Kaladin did was worse in terms of etiquette.

 

It's true Elhokar could have allowed Adolin to continue and have Kaladin imprisoned, but ignoring him wasn't an option for me.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Aleksiel