Silver, what is it?

[Thanatos]

Ok, told my little brother a theory of mine I've had for about a year now. He thinks it may be discussion worthy. 

What is Silver?

My two theories are:

* Its from the Fainlife.. aka anti-adonolsium investiture or repellant.

* Dragonsteel.

What's everyone's thoughts? 

If not that, then what's your opinion?

What is Silvers significance?

[Voidus]

The 47th element in the periodic table.

[Leyrann]

Silver doesn't seem to do much apart from some stuff on Threnody.

Aluminium on the other hand...

[Vargo Seldon he/him]

1 hour ago, Voidus said:

The 47th element in the periodic table.

Ha, lol.

Yes, I made a theory not too long ago about silver.  It definitely has some significance.  Have you read shadows for silence in the forests of hell?  It takes place on threnody, and is one of the short stories in arcanum unbounded.  When silver touches a shade, It turns black, and maybe the 'power in it' goes back to mines to be rediscovered.  I'm thinking it definitely has significance.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

4 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Silver doesn't seem to do much apart from some stuff on Threnody.

Have we seen shades or their magic anywhere else?
I would speculate that silver is kind of a "passive" allomantic metal. You can get it to do things if you provide an external source of investiture, the shade or its magic effect.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

We've seen silver in one other place besides Threnody. That was the metal in Vin's cell in the very 1st Mistborn. We know the metal is allomantically inert, at least so far. It's significance in the future of the Cosmere is up for debate.

[HSuperLee]

Silver definitely does something special on Threnody, but in general it doesn't seem any more or less invested than any other mundane material. I know a some people think the allomatically intert idea means something, but it's just saying there's no effect for burning it, same with lead, osmium, scandium, etc.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Scandium is bendalloy. You are right about the others. Thing is, silver is traditionally special in fantasy novels but not so much in the Cosmere. That's the significance. 

[HSuperLee]

8 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Scandium is bendalloy. You are right about the others. Thing is, silver is traditionally special in fantasy novels but not so much in the Cosmere. That's the significance. 

Cadmium is bendalloy's alternate, isn't it?

[Calderis he/him]

52 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Scandium is bendalloy. You are right about the others. Thing is, silver is traditionally special in fantasy novels but not so much in the Cosmere. That's the significance. 

Scandium isn't bendalloy... Scandium is an element, and it is used in some aluminum alloys (including the guns in Era 2). Bendalloy is an alloy of Cadmium. 

Quote

It is a eutectic alloy of 50% bismuth, 26.7% lead, 13.3% tin, and 10% cadmium by weight.

 

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

My mistake. I read somewhere that Scandium was used somewhere in Allomancy in Era 2. 

[Vargo Seldon he/him]

I don't know, I have feeling that silver will have more significance than it already does.

[Leyrann]

14 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

We know the metal is allomantically inert, at least so far. It's significance in the future of the Cosmere is up for debate.

Just making clear here, there's been a change in definitions over time. Brandon originally called it allomantically inert in the annotations to mistborn, but back then it meant "you can't use it for allomancy", while nowadays we know it as "you can't affect it with allomancy", which is very different and not true for silver.

[Calderis he/him]

22 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Just making clear here, there's been a change in definitions over time. Brandon originally called it allomantically inert in the annotations to mistborn, but back then it meant "you can't use it for allomancy", while nowadays we know it as "you can't affect it with allomancy", which is very different and not true for silver.

That is what allomantically inert means. It's inert. It has no effect, positive or negative. 

Aluminum is not inert. It actively negates anything done to it. 

[Leyrann]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

That is what allomantically inert means. It's inert. It has no effect, positive or negative. 

Aluminum is not inert. It actively negates anything done to it. 

I'm just paraphrasing Peter. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/306/#e11239

Quote

Peter Ahlstrom

Silver is not Allomantically inert the way aluminum is. In that annotation, Brandon just meant that silver didn't do anything if you swallowed it and tried to burn it. It can be Pushed and Pulled. Years after Brandon wrote that annotation, what he means by "Allomantically inert" has changed.

 

[Calderis he/him]

5 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

I'm just paraphrasing Peter. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/306/#e11239

 

Huh. I'm curious where he's ever called aluminum allomantically inert. Because it's both a negation effect, and provides an allomantic ability. 

I've never seen Brandon refer to aluminum as inert. That's just confusing.

Edit: ugh. I found it, and it bothers me... Because it isn't... 

Quote

Ironeyes

We know aluminum affects mental magic and emotional magic. Would it affect the hole in your soul that’s created by Hemalurgy? If you had an aluminum spike, would that make it easier, less easy, or no difference for Ruin to take control of you?

Brandon Sanderson

Aluminum resists Investiture generally, even when it’s not Invested itself.

Ironeyes

(Brandon hems and haws a little so Ironeyes clarifies the question) Would an aluminum spike make it harder for a Soother to take control of you?

Brandon Sanderson

An aluminum spike would have no effect on a Soother’s ability. They wouldn’t see it there.

yulerule

Did you make aluminum resistant to Allomancy so that you could do the tinfoil hats?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but once I did, I was like that’s a cool idea. I made aluminum resistant to it because I wanted something to be magically inert in the Cosmere. It was a happy accident.

source

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Calderis

[Ripheus23]

I'm going to speculate that Shades are mostly made of Invested electricity, so silver's electrical conductivity is the quasi-source of its ability to repel Shades and heal Shade damage, although the influx/reaction of electricity, in the Shade-silver contact case, causes the silver to physically deteriorate. However, I don't know if silver is that much more conductive than all other metals, or if it's the most but by a small margin, or whatever (I'm going off half a memory of a Wikipedia article).

[Rossamund]

if it was based purely on conductivity copper would be more effective and probably cheaper too. Something else is at play.

[HSuperLee]

24 minutes ago, Rossamund Rhapadocera said:

if it was based purely on conductivity copper would be more effective and probably cheaper too. Something else is at play.

Silver is more conductive than copper. Copper is just used more because it's cheap.

[Quantus he/him]

23 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

Silver is more conductive than copper. Copper is just used more because it's cheap.

for what it's worth: it does have some mechanical benefits too, it's more maleable/ductile and less prone to cracks from mechanical and/or vibration stresses. 

 

From Ye' Internets on the topic because it was interesting:  Silver is the most conductive per volume and it's only 5% better than copper. Copper is a way better conductor per dollar: you just make the copper wire 5% larger than the silver wire.

Side note, power lines wires are aluminum. In terms of conductivity per mass, aluminum is twice as good as copper or silver and when you have to build huge structures to hang the wires in the air, mass is what you care about, not volume.

[The Invested Beard]

I saw the topic title and couldn't stop hearing "Magnets. How do they work?"

Edited November 5, 2018 by The Invested Beard

[Crylorenzo he/him]

I always thought that Silver had to do with shadesmar / cognitive realm. Or perhaps even the spiritual realm. We don't get much of either in Mistborn, then shades are cognitive shadows and are affected by it. My memory maybe off, but doesn't Hoid do something to hurt Kelsier at the Well? I know we don't see any metal here, but it could've been hidden silver. I wonder if Silverlight has anything to do with Silver and Shadesmar.

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, Crylorenzo said:

I always thought that Silver had to do with shadesmar / cognitive realm. Or perhaps even the spiritual realm. We don't get much of either in Mistborn, then shades are cognitive shadows and are affected by it. My memory maybe off, but doesn't Hoid do something to hurt Kelsier at the Well? I know we don't see any metal here, but it could've been hidden silver. I wonder if Silverlight has anything to do with Silver and Shadesmar.

Hoid expressly does not hurt Kelsier. Kelsier feels pain because he believes getting hit should cause that, but there was no actual harm done. That's the entire reason that Hoid could hit him in the first place.

If silver effects cognitive being like it does shades, then it would consume the silver, and presumably cause actual harm to the entity effected. 

[Crylorenzo he/him]

It's been a bit since I reread Shadows for silence, but I know remember the silver containing and driving back the shades. Would it have to consume the silver? Aluminum blocks investiture such as shardblades, yet it isn't consumed. And as for harm, who knows? I just see Shadows and Vin's earring as our only clues for what Silver does. I imagine the Silver in some way helped Vin not be as negatively affected by Ruin even though she was spiked, but that's just my speculation. Perhaps Silver has to do with the spiritual realm then?

[Fezzik]

14 hours ago, Crylorenzo said:

Would it have to consume the silver?

Yes. In SfSitFoH, shades interacting tarnishes silver, Silence has to make enough money to replenish the warding circles around the inn.