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How could the Lord Ruler POSSIBLY die?


Khyrindor

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It has occurred to me that the Lord Ruler had FULL MISTBORN powers as well as FULL FERUCHEMIST powers. Not to mention Hemalurgy AND access to almost all metals.

 

Being a full Mistborn + full Feruchemist means that he could Duralumin-Flare-Hemalurgy-Compound-Ultimate-Healing. Not to mention EVERYTHING ELSE. He could store ultimate weight and EXPLODE Kredik Shaw as well as probably most of the world. With that much power, how could he even possibly let Vin get close to him?

 

He could probably just use Chromium as luck and Vin would just die spontaneously or loose her powers or something. Was he really that sure of himself that he couldn't kill her, or was he tired of living? Did he want to die?

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Compounding doesn't work without metals. Vin tossed all his metal out the window. The villain of "Alloy of Law" seemed immortal for the same reason. When he was executed they removed all his metal, caused him to burn up his gold and then he was quite dead after being shot by a firing squad three times.

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He was SUPREMELY sure of his invincibility and grew complacent. To him, insects like Vin and the others were barely worth the trouble to squish.

 

I mean, it's not like they could possibly know his weakness...

Edited by Baine
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Probably a combination of:

 

He was SUPREMELY sure of his invincibility and grew complacent. To him, insects like Vin and the others were barely worth the trouble to squish.

 

I mean, it's not like they could possibly know his weakness...

 

And the fact that Vin fueled her allomancy at that point WITH the mists, which would be way strong even compared to TLR's allomancy. And there is NO way he could have predicted that or resisted it. It's not in the text, but you don't think he was trying to Iron pull those metalminds back to him when Vin sent them flying? 

 

Plus he immediately started to revert in age to a 1000 year old... probably pretty hard to concentrate on anything with that going on in your body. 

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Rashek was just another one of those bad guys who should have read the Evil Overlord List.

 

 

 

Yeah.

Yes, he could have killed vin with a tought any time he wished. but he had no reasons to. vin was no treath to him whatsoever. why fretting over killing her?

 

Plus, ruin was probably influencing him to make him more complacent, since ruin wanted vin to kill tlr.

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He also didn't have all of the metals.  He couldn't affect time and didn't have any chromium for luck.  He was also practically insane.  Also, as previously stated, he had no reason to fear Vin.  He had had countless attempts on his life- including a beheading- and couldn't possibly have thought that she was anything more than a nuisance.  Plus she hadn't ingested any metals.  He died because the mists powered Vin's allomancy, allowing her to do something believed to be impossible.

Edited by Crash
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Plus, ruin was probably influencing him to make him more complacent, since ruin wanted vin to kill tlr.

 

This seems like the biggest part of it right there.  If a god (or at least, closest thing there is to one anymore) wants you to die, there's a pretty large chance that you're going to die.  Unless you're a protagonist, of course.

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I guess the Ruin thing makes more sense, but come to think of it, he knows to ignore Ruin, which is why he took the power in the first place. Maybe he didn't risk Hemalurgy at all, unless there's a quote in the book or a WoB, but I can't think of any.

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I guess the Ruin thing makes more sense, but come to think of it, he knows to ignore Ruin, which is why he took the power in the first place. Maybe he didn't risk Hemalurgy at all, unless there's a quote in the book or a WoB, but I can't think of any.

there's word of brandon that ruin was influencing him.

Yes, I don't know how that is possible, since tlr never used hemalurgy on himself - those atium bracers piercing his skin weren't hemalurgical. maybe he formed a connection with ruin after taking the power at the well, and that connection allowed ruin to talk to him. maybe ruin can talk to people without spikes if it had a long time to focus. maybe it's because the lord rules was going insane, and insane people are easily influenced by ruin without spikes - note that he wasn't completely sane even before taking the power at the well.

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He also didn't have all of the metals.  He couldn't affect time and didn't have any chromium for luck.  He was also practically insane.  Also, as previously stated, he had no reason to fear Vin.  He had had countless attempts on his life- including a beheading- and couldn't possibly have thought that she was anything more than a nuisance.  Plus she hadn't ingested any metals.  He died because the mists powered Vin's allomancy, allowing her to do something believed to be impossible.

 

Why wouldn't TLR have had the other metals? He didn't let other people know about them, but that didn't mean he didn't have many of them...

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Why wouldn't TLR have had the other metals? He didn't let other people know about them, but that didn't mean he didn't have many of them...

Metals like Bendalloy or Chromium aren't exactly easy to come by, especially in a broken world. I'm sure somebody else will one-up me on this, but I think we have WoB that TLR didn't have Chromium.

EDIT: Aaaaaand the aforementioned one-up has indeed arrived. Nice catch GHM!

Main reasons he didn't do it were because he's god and almost nobody's ever heard of Feruchemy, few people could ever connect it to him, and even fewer could realize his secret. Then of course there's Ruin and his emotional influence, making him feel like toying with Vin. After all, he really did sound kind of fed up with these assassination things and felt like ranting in safety. There's the thing about the mists totally screwing him over, and one little point that's actually my own instead of everybody elses:

Even if he did have Chromium to hold his luck, it doesn't work like that. Feruchemy is internal, and only works on the user. He couldn't make Vin miss a stab, he could only make himself luckily dodge her stab. At that point there's only so much luck can do, especially if he feels no reason to leave his palace.

Edited by Observer
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Metals like Bendalloy or Chromium aren't exactly easy to come by, especially in a broken world. I'm sure somebody else will one-up me on this, but I think we have WoB that TLR didn't have Chromium.

Main reasons he didn't do it were because he's god and almost nobody's ever heard of Feruchemy, few people could ever connect it to him, and even fewer could realize his secret. Then of course there's Ruin and his emotional influence, making him feel like toying with Vin. After all, he really did sound kind of fed up with these assassination things and felt like ranting in safety. There's the thing about the mists totally screwing him over, and one little point that's actually my own instead of everybody elses:

Even if he did have Chromium to hold his luck, it doesn't work like that. Feruchemy is internal, and only works on the user. He couldn't make Vin miss a stab, he could only make himself luckily dodge her stab. At that point there's only so much luck can do, especially if he feels no reason to leave his palace.

 

We actually have a WoB to the opposite effect:

 

BRANDON SANDERSON (PARAPHRASED)

We asked some questions about the Lord Ruler, like if he knew about chromium and nicrosil. Brandon said he knew about those metals, and then also said "The Lord Ruler knew a lot of things that no one knows." All right then.

 

There are also a couple of WoB related to him having Hemalurgic spikes: 1 & 2:

 

 

DALENTHAS (15 OCTOBER 2008)
Did the Lord Ruler have any Hemalurgic spikes in him? It would seem he'd need to for Ruin to influence him, but it wasn't mentioned. Or did his bracers work as spikes?
BRANDON SANDERSON (16 OCTOBER 2008)
His arm bracers, which pierced his skin, were his spikes.
 
and:
 
DARXBANE (16 OCTOBER 2008)
In an annotation from book one, it is mentioned that The Lord Ruler needed all three magic systems in order to do what he did. I always assumed that it meant his Hemalurgy enhanced his Allomancy. Did Marsh get a double power, or is the Feruchemy-Allomancy combo enough? (a sidebar to this question is whether or not stacking abilities is possible through Hemalurgy).
BRANDON SANDERSON (17 OCTOBER 2008)
He used Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects. Marsh didn't need them, but it makes things much easier.
 
So he was indeed rocking all three metallic arts and thus subject to Ruin's influence. 
 
Edited by Green Hoodie Mistborn
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Also his spikes could have been anything, the size of the spike does not matter so if he had earrings they could have been spikes. The bracers were just his gold and atium spikes. size just makes it easier to kill things with.

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Also his spikes could have been anything, the size of the spike does not matter so if he had earrings they could have been spikes. The bracers were just his gold and atium spikes. size just makes it easier to kill things with.

 

I do think that size matters in the amount of investiture it can steal/hold though. Like a metalmind can only hold so much and that is determined by the size of it as well. 

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Didn't Marsh say at one point that size meant nothing other than how long the charge would last? Lemme get my HoA...

EDIT: Found it!

A rather small bit of metal could work for Hemalurgy. Inquisitor spikes were large to be intimidating, but a small pin could, in many instances, be just as effective as a massive spike. It depended on how long one wanted to leave the spike outside of a person's body after using it to kill someone.

Edited by Observer
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Didn't Marsh say at one point that size meant nothing other than how long the charge would last? Lemme get my HoA...

EDIT: Found it!

 

Glad you did, I couldn't find it!

 

I still that quote means that the size of the spike determines something. Namely how long it can hold a larger % of the investiture before degrading. the smaller the spike the less time it can be out of a body before losing power. 

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Glad you did, I couldn't find it!

 

I still that quote means that the size of the spike determines something. Namely how long it can hold a larger % of the investiture before degrading. the smaller the spike the less time it can be out of a body before losing power. 

I did not remember that the larger spike retained its power better than a smaller one. How ever I don't think once it has been placed into a host that is continues to lose power even if removed and replaced at a later date. 

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Exactly what I'm saying. The spike size doesn't have anything to do with how much Investure it can hold, it only concerns how long and how quickly for being outside of a host.

 

I'm sure size does actually limit how much it can hold, as there's only so much Investiture you can cram in. It's just that Hemalurgy can't normally produce the levels of energy needed to test that capacity, like how you can't exactly fill a metalmind by only charging it for a day.

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I have Hero of Ages open right now in front of me. Spike size does exactly this: It makes the spike lose Investure more slowly when outside of a body. Once inside, it stops losing Investure, but no matter how much Investure is lost, a full connection to Ruin will always be open to anyone spiked with that metal. Spikes can be melted down, attached to other things, split, etc, their charge and connection will bend accordingly along with their cognitive aspect. This means that TLR probably just spiked some people and then attached it to his Atium bracers, and maybe a ring or earring as well. How could he possibly die? He was either saving Chromium (Not like there's an infinite amount of that he could mine up constantly), or was indeed tapping it to help him avoid hits. Ruin would soothe and riot him to keep him from killing Vin outright, and then she pulled in roughly three metric craptons of Shardic Investure and tore off his bracers, killing him. Personal Luck wouldn't change this situation much at all, so I don't see a problem with how he died.

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Exactly what I'm saying. The spike size doesn't have anything to do with how much Investure it can hold, it only concerns how long and how quickly for being outside of a host.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that.

 

It could just be that the amount of power you tend to spike in hemelurgy is far below the carrying capacity of even a small pin.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well the reason I think the Lord Ruler didn't use his luck, was I don't feel he ever felt physical harm warranted it. This is supported for two reasons. He LETS kelsier ram a spear through him. This is first because he easily heals from it, and secondly to hammer into the populace "YOU.....CAN'T.....KILL.....ME". Which is more psychologically damaging? Seeing someone dodge your blows, or seeing that even if you land them, it does nothing? As to why Vin was able to kill the Lord Ruler was hubris. The Lord Ruler felt confident that no one could push on pierced metal because no one HAS been able to for years. It is hammered in repeatedly throughout the book that no one can push or pull on pierced metals. Just like how it is hammered in that no one can pierce copperclouds. In his pride the Lord Ruler assumed he was complete in his success in destroying any knowledge of either of those facts being incorrect. So he would have nothing to fear from Vin, because in his mind, she plain and simple wouldn't have been able to push on his metal at all since its pierced in his arms. 

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