Ashspren Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) In the epilogue of Words of Radiance, Jasnah draws her Shardblade, and holds it to Hoid’s throat. He responds by saying: Quote “I’d be surprised if that little knife of yours poses me any real threat, Kholin.” Is it just me, or does this seem somewhat uncharacteristic for Hoid? Generally, we see him exchanging witty (no pun intended) banter, and even his most serious threats are versed lightheartedly. He doesn’t show the level of arrogance that is implied in the quote above. Additionally, I found this quote... Quote “I don’t tell those kinds of lies, Jasnah. You know that. It’s what you find so annoying about me.” My question is this: Is there some sort of unknown history between Jasnah and Hoid that we don’t know about? Earlier in the same scene, when he mentions the “other side,” referring to Shadesmar, Jasnah doesn’t have any trouble understanding what that means. How much does Jasnah know about Hoid? Edited July 9, 2018 by Ashspren 1
Quantus he/him Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 One the first, I didnt read it as Arrogance in his case, I read it as a literal statement that he is immune to the sort of Spritweb damage that a Shardblade would impart. Especially since we know for fact that he is not immune to ordinary physical harm. On the second, Hoid was the Court Wit for some years, I'd been assuming that was what all the familiarity he was referencing. I could be wrong, but I dont know of any specific evidence that she knew him from somewhere else.
Weltall Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 Jasnah appears to know Hoid solely due to his position as King's Wit and we have WoB that she is not Cosmere-aware. In other words, she doesn't know all the details of what Hoid really is (same as us...). As for the reaction to Ivory-as-Shardblade, we know that Hoid can heal the Spiritual damage caused by a Shardblade so he's being completely straightforward in saying that Jasnah isn't a real threat to him. I read that as him getting Jasnah to talk to him (annoying as she finds him) rather than to try to bully him with a big stick by pointing out that he's immune to said stick. But not immune to Stick of course. Stick rules all. @Quantus Hoid can be harmed physically but he basically needs to 'turn off' his healing in order for that to happen. Otherwise his Spiritual ideal pretty much instantly overrides whatever you do to his body. About the only things we know that are seriously dangerous to him are the Shards, the Dor (really just a subset of the first category) and Nightblood.
goody153 Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 Yeah doesn't Hoid access to Feruchemy? It wouldn't be surprising if he has access to other means of healing(even if he doesn't have feruchemical gold) which most healing already heals spiritual damage.
Wandering Investor Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, goody153 said: Yeah doesn't Hoid access to Feruchemy? It wouldn't be surprising if he has access to other means of healing(even if he doesn't have feruchemical gold) which most healing already heals spiritual damage. Hoid is confirmed to have abilities that can perform similar effects to some of feruchemy, specifically accessing fortune, but is not confirmed to actually have feruchemy. He could, but I do not think he does. I'm also under the impression that Hoid's healing is far more effective than feruchemy.
goody153 Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: Hoid is confirmed to have abilities that can perform similar effects to some of feruchemy, specifically accessing fortune, but is not confirmed to actually have feruchemy. He could, but I do not think he does. I'm also under the impression that Hoid's healing is far more effective than feruchemy. I know Hoid is somebody special but as far as i know gold healing is kinda healing the spiritual damage as well. So i don't think there could be more effective healing than that. So whatever hoid has that can heal spiritual damage as well is basically just another version of gold healing.
Wandering Investor Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, goody153 said: I know Hoid is somebody special but as far as i know gold healing is kinda healing the spiritual damage as well. So i don't think there could be more effective healing than that. So whatever hoid has that can heal spiritual damage as well is basically just another version of gold healing. There are several forms of healing throughout the cosmere that can heal spiritual damage as well as physical. Gold compounding and stormlight, however I'm not sure that they can completely heal critical hits from a shardblade, while Hoid doesn't seem fazed by having one pointed at him. I could be wrong though, there isn't any good way to compare them at the moment. I'd still choose Hoid's ability, as gold compounding requires large amounts of gold, while normal gold feruchemy and stormlight can be easily tapped out.
goody153 Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 Just now, Wandering Investor said: There are several forms of healing throughout the cosmere that can heal spiritual damage as well as physical. Gold compounding and stormlight, however I'm not sure that they can completely heal critical hits from a shardblade, while Hoid doesn't seem fazed by having one pointed at him. I could be wrong though, there isn't any good way to compare them at the moment. I'd still choose Hoid's ability, as gold compounding requires large amounts of gold, while normal gold feruchemy and stormlight can be easily tapped out. Both stormlight and gold feruchemy can heal shardblade hits. Obviously if you got hit in the head you can't heal if you are uhm dead or unable to heal, unless external means of healing is done to you ofc. What i mean is that whatever Hoid's means of healing whether it'd be stormlight/feruchemy/other is that the mechanics of healing in Cosmere overall works on the concept. It heals what you perceive as "damage" or "not part of you". Which is what i mean about "i don't think there could be more effective healing than that" since all healing basically work the same way. Besides i doubt Hoid doesn't have means to fill his gold metalmind if he's a user of gold healing since even Wayne manages to find store something. Hoid basically hacks cosmere.
Calderis he/him Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 However Hoid heals, it heals the soul. Quote Pinpoint (paraphrased) If Hoid got beheaded, would his body grow a new head? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. Pinpoint (paraphrased) What if Hoid got cut by a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) The Shardblade cuts the soul and what Hoid does heals the soul. source And although we have been told that what he does naturally has similar principles to Feruchical Fortune, and that he's not actually a Feruchemist, that doesn't mean that he doesn't have access to Feruchemy. Quote Steeldancer Hoid. Does he have more unkeyed metalminds? Brandon Sanderson Hoid has access to lots of different things, so, yes he does. source 1
goody153 Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) Huh so you CAN heal the beheading. Apparently the beheading rumor about Lord Ruler wasn't actually rumor but a real thing. Good to know I thought that getting beheaded prevents you from healing. Edited July 10, 2018 by goody153
StrikerEZ he/him Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 @goody153 Well, with TLR he was probably healing before he was beheaded. Personally, I don't think gold healing would be able to heal you if you weren't already healing before being beheaded or delivered a fatal blow. Your spiritweb would already be in the process of healing things, so a fatal wound would just be another thing for you to heal. If you weren't healing before, you die and can no longer start the healing process. The thing about gold healing though is that it matches the physical form to the spiritual ideal. It does NOT heal spiritual damage. Therefore, gold healing would not be able to heal a Shardblade wound. As for Hoid, he has some crazy healing ability we really have no idea about. Presumably, there's some funky stuff going on with his spiritweb that forces his physical form to match it at times.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 Brandon said ages ago that the Lord Ruler would have died if beheaded. He was only partially decapitated. But we have WoB that gold healing CAN heal a Shardblade-cut limb.
Calderis he/him Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: The thing about gold healing though is that it matches the physical form to the spiritual ideal. It does NOT heal spiritual damage. Therefore, gold healing would not be able to heal a Shardblade wound. About that Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] If a Shardblade was put through Wayne's eye, would he able to use his ability to *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, he should be able to heal that. source Quote Kurkistan If you spiked out Miles' Feruchemical gold, would he be able to burn his Allomantic reserves [read: Feruchemical reserves using Allomancy] and heal it back? Brandon Sanderson If you spiked out his ability to heal gold and somehow left him alive? Kurkistan Yeah, but still having Allomancy. Brandon Sanderson Still has Allomancy... Kurkistan And he’s like in the middle of burning a goldmind. Brandon Sanderson Yes, that would still work. It'd still have a Spiritual Connection to him. Kurkistan So if you're a Coinshot and you get [spiked] to have Feruchemical steel, and then you lose the spike after making a store, you can still Compound that for speed? Brandon Sanderson Yes... Yeah, that should still work. Kurkistan Was Paalm doing that? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO. source Unless there's something that's changed that I haven't seen, gold is perfectly capable of healing the soul. 21 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said: Brandon said ages ago that the Lord Ruler would have died if beheaded. He was only partially decapitated. But we have WoB that gold healing CAN heal a Shardblade-cut limb. I've never seen one that said that would have killed him. I'm actually sure I've seen one where people asked him what Rashek did with his old head and Brandon just smiled.
Quantus he/him Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 That's true, at his level of healing there's not much that rises to the level of actual threat. He's not literally "Immune to Sword Damage" or anything like superhero tropes, but if he can regrow his own head and soul-web damage, then he's pretty safe. The cool thing is that theoretically he should be able to heal Hemalurgic Spike damage, which WOB says gold could do. I have this horrible image of somebody with soul-healing using themselves as a Spike factory. I know Hoid's a special case, but I have to wonder what the long-term effects would be of repeated Spiking on on a gold ferring or compounder.
StrikerEZ he/him Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 8 hours ago, Calderis said: About that Unless there's something that's changed that I haven't seen, gold is perfectly capable of healing the soul. I've never seen one that said that would have killed him. I'm actually sure I've seen one where people asked him what Rashek did with his old head and Brandon just smiled. Oh, wow, I'd completely forgotten about those ones. I was way off then. I guess there's a difference between spiritual wounds and changes to your spiritweb.
Wander89 he/him Posted July 10, 2018 Posted July 10, 2018 I do wish to see more backstory between Hoid and whatever, he is such a Wit-ty character and now that Mistborn is at the end of this next Era and SA will be moving on from our current characters, i'll be needing more of these style of characters to blow my damnation mind.
Zelly Posted July 11, 2018 Posted July 11, 2018 Preeeeetty sure there's a WoB that states Hoid has one method of healing that is pre-Shattering. On 7/9/2018 at 5:13 PM, Quantus said: On the second, Hoid was the Court Wit for some years, I'd been assuming that was what all the familiarity he was referencing. I could be wrong, but I dont know of any specific evidence that she knew him from somewhere else. I thought in WoK it says that Hoid had only been the Wit for a few months, though that throws a wrench into how Jasnah knows him. Although....It's possible he actually named himself Wit.....and then amusingly took the job of the King's Wit at a later time. Also, people occasionally act oddly around Hoid, and I suspect he may be using emotional allomancy to divert their suspicions of him. Jasnah's naturally suspicious and hostile when he's there waiting for her, but then she suddenly turns almost dismissive of him.
Quantus he/him Posted July 11, 2018 Posted July 11, 2018 10 hours ago, Zellyia said: Preeeeetty sure there's a WoB that states Hoid has one method of healing that is pre-Shattering. I thought in WoK it says that Hoid had only been the Wit for a few months, though that throws a wrench into how Jasnah knows him. Although....It's possible he actually named himself Wit.....and then amusingly took the job of the King's Wit at a later time. Also, people occasionally act oddly around Hoid, and I suspect he may be using emotional allomancy to divert their suspicions of him. Jasnah's naturally suspicious and hostile when he's there waiting for her, but then she suddenly turns almost dismissive of him. I may have Hoid's service time wrong, it's been a while since I last read WoK. That's a good point about the Allomancy, it fits his general MO on that sort of subtle power use.
+Oltux72 he/him Posted October 3, 2018 Posted October 3, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 10:43 PM, Ashspren said: Is it just me, or does this seem somewhat uncharacteristic for Hoid? Generally, we see him exchanging witty (no pun intended) banter, and even his most serious threats are versed lightheartedly. He doesn’t show the level of arrogance that is implied in the quote above. I would take that as confirmation that her threat level is one notch up. Anybody else we saw him meet so far is like a fight of a toddler against a man to him. He can shrug them off. Jasnah is not a danger, but he would be forced to strike back for real.
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