[OB] Talenel's Honorblade

[MountainKing]

4 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

I think we have WoB that Hoid was not responsible.

But if Taln dismissed his blade and Hoid gave him a replacement blade, then Good isn't responsible for the missing Honorblade, Taln is.

[IntentAwesome]

Alright. Crackpot theory time.

Taln's Honorblade is in the palace. Not inside the place, in it. As in, part of it. What if the thing the Singers are tearing the palace down for at the end of the book is actually the Honorblade? And how did it get in there? Well, by someone who knew how to use it to "melt" stone.

Looking at you, Hoid. I know we have a WOB that Hoid didn't switch the blades. That says nothing about hiding it. 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

17 minutes ago, IntentAwesome said:

Alright. Crackpot theory time.

Taln's Honorblade is in the palace. Not inside the place, in it. As in, part of it. What if the thing the Singers are tearing the palace down for at the end of the book is actually the Honorblade? And how did it get in there? Well, by someone who knew how to use it to "melt" stone.

Looking at you, Hoid. I know we have a WOB that Hoid didn't switch the blades. That says nothing about hiding it. 

I actually really like this theory. No idea how true it may be, but I really like it. 

[The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him]

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

Just for clarification on the Honorblades. First the bond is shallower. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

A full-blown Radiant can heal almost anything (cut from a Shardblade included) because of the way the magic works--their soul is literally bonded to investiture, and it suffuses them in such a way that even the soul is very resilient to damage.

Honorblades are what you'd consider a "prototype" for what eventually happened with Shardblades. An Honorblade can be used by anyone, without need for oaths, which makes them very dangerous--but since the bond isn't as deep, they are far less efficient. They use more stormlight, for example, and can't heal to the extent that a Radiant can.

So the difference is not in the device that did the damage, but in the method using to heal. Over the course of the first two book, the reader should be able to subtly pick out differences from what Szeth says is possible(in more than just healing) and what Kaladin experiences.

source 

Something interesting that this strongly implies is that Radiants who have sworn more ideals become increasingly efficient in their use of Stormlight, which I'm fairly certain has been observed by Kaladin in text. I'm in the camp that believes that Radiants get shardplate after swearing their fourth ideal and this shardplate could exponentially increase their efficiency as a human body is a poor vessel for Stormlight, allowing it to leak out through their skin. Shardplate could allow them to hold Stormlight better and I for one hope this is the case as Kaladin running out of Stormlight mid fight has become a running gag that irks me.

Getting back to the main topic, do you @Calderis believe that the spirits of the stone Szeth mentions could have anything to do with the Stone Shamans ability to locate and recover the honorblade? I'm wondering how the Shamanate would be able to detect the honorblade and the most logical in world conclusion would be that some sort of spren would be involved. I doubt Brandon would just offhandedly mention the spren of stone if it had no significance to the plot, unless he seriously enjoys making us overanalyse every last line of his books.

Edited June 30, 2018 by The Harlem Worldhoppers

[Calderis he/him]

7 hours ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

Getting back to the main topic, do you @Calderis believe that the spirits of the stone Szeth mentions could have anything to do with the Stone Shamans ability to locate and recover the honorblade? I'm wondering how the Shamanate would be able to detect the honorblade and the most logical in world conclusion would be that some sort of spren would be involved. I doubt Brandon would just offhandedly mention the spren of stone if it had no significance to the plot, unless he seriously enjoys making us overanalyse every last line of his books.

I think that the Honorblades are Connected to each other similarly to the Heralds. With the Truthwatcher Blade, which per the WoBs I posted earlier, would also grant the Truthwatcher resonance, I think that blades wielder could "see what is" to locate the blade. 

Then you have 2 blades with Transportation... So... 

[The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him]

25 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think that the Honorblades are Connected to each other similarly to the Heralds. With the Truthwatcher Blade, which per the WoBs I posted earlier, would also grant the Truthwatcher resonance, I think that blades wielder could "see what is" to locate the blade. 

That's an interesting theory. I wonder if the Honorblades being connected is more to do with all of the Honorblades being made of Tanavastium, thus being linked by Honor's essence in a solid form. We don't know if the Truthwatcher honorblade would function identically to Renarin's surges, as Renarin has some strange stuff going on with his spren.

[Calderis he/him]

46 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

That's an interesting theory. I wonder if the Honorblades being connected is more to do with all of the Honorblades being made of Tanavastium, thus being linked by Honor's essence in a solid form. We don't know if the Truthwatcher honorblade would function identically to Renarin's surges, as Renarin has some strange stuff going on with his spren.

Nah, I'm basing that off of what Ivory said, not Renarin. I think Renarin is something unique. 

I think that a normal Truthwatcher would have something more akin to "farsight" than what Renarin does. 

[ScavellTane]

36 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Nah, I'm basing that off of what Ivory said, not Renarin. I think Renarin is something unique. 

I think that a normal Truthwatcher would have something more akin to "farsight" than what Renarin does. 

So,a normal Truthwatcher would skew towards Physical-Ilumination.

Whereas Renarin leans greatly towards Spritual-Illumination.

[The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him]

43 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Nah, I'm basing that off of what Ivory said, not Renarin. I think Renarin is something unique. 

I think that a normal Truthwatcher would have something more akin to "farsight" than what Renarin does. 

I'm interested in how the same fundamental surges exhibit differences between the radiants and the Fused. We've seen some differences between Kaladin's jerkier rapid acceleration and the Fused's fluid movement where both groups are using the surge of Gravitation. It also begs the question of how Renarin was able to use the Odium surges without Voidlight. Maybe Glys is acting as a filter of sorts. 

I'm feeling a bit tired right now, could you explain how a normal Truthwatcher would probably differ from what Renarin does in 5 year old speak? @Calderis

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think the theory is they can see things that are currently happening elsewhere.

[ScavellTane]

13 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I'm interested in how the same fundamental surges exhibit differences between the radiants and the Fused. We've seen some differences between Kaladin's jerkier rapid acceleration and the Fused's fluid movement where both groups are using the surge of Gravitation. It also begs the question of how Renarin was able to use the Odium surges without Voidlight. Maybe Glys is acting as a filter of sorts. 

I'm feeling a bit tired right now, could you explain how a normal Truthwatcher would probably differ from what Renarin does in 5 year old speak? @Calderis

I think that has more to do with the Fused being more spren-like after so long without pyhsical bodies..

[Calderis he/him]

58 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I'm interested in how the same fundamental surges exhibit differences between the radiants and the Fused. We've seen some differences between Kaladin's jerkier rapid acceleration and the Fused's fluid movement where both groups are using the surge of Gravitation. It also begs the question of how Renarin was able to use the Odium surges without Voidlight. Maybe Glys is acting as a filter of sorts. 

I'm feeling a bit tired right now, could you explain how a normal Truthwatcher would probably differ from what Renarin does in 5 year old speak? @Calderis

For one thing, I don't believe the Fused are Voidbinding. Their surges have some minor differences, but are fundamentally the same thing we've seen from surgebinders. In contrast, Renarin's windows to the future are not anything like normal illumination. I believe it is the only Voidbinding we've seen so far. 

As for the a normal truthwatcher, I believe their abilities would stay rooted in the present, and allow them, as @CrazyRioter said, to see other locations in the present. Similar to what Shallan unwittingly did with her drawings of Shallash and Yalb. Only much more intentionally. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Calderis

[The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him]

48 minutes ago, CrazyRioter said:

I think the theory is they can see things that are currently happening elsewhere.

 

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

For one thing, I don't believe the Fused are Voidbinding. Their surges have some minor differences, but are fundamentally the same thing we've seen from surgebinders. In contrast, Renarin's windows to the future are not anything like normal illumination. I believe it is the only Voidbinding we've seen so far. 

As for the a normal truthwatcher, I believe their abilities would stay rooted in the present, and allow them, as @CrazyRioter said, to see other locations in the present. Similar to what Shallan unwittingly did with her drawings of Shallash and Yalb. Only much more intentionally. 

Thanks for the responses . We have seen different manifestations of the same surge e.g. Kaladin's (physical) adhesion and Dalinar's (cognitive) adhesion.I wonder if, from these explanations, a normal Truthwatcher has the Physical aspect of their surges, allowing them to see all of the goings on in the Physical world, while Renarin has access to the Spiritual aspect of the surge, allowing him to glimpse into the spiritual realm and see the future.

[BitBitio he/him]

I believe that the Fused are, in fact, Voidbinding. For example, Brandon said that Voidbinders each only have access to a single Surge, since they only have one Shard making up the magic system, while Surgebinding has two, granting two Surges per order. Each Fused we saw had only one Surge. 

I do agree with the Truthwatcher spiritsight thing.

[Calderis he/him]

53 minutes ago, BitBitio the Mudkip said:

I believe that the Fused are, in fact, Voidbinding. For example, Brandon said that Voidbinders each only have access to a single Surge, since they only have one Shard making up the magic system, while Surgebinding has two, granting two Surges per order. Each Fused we saw had only one Surge. 

Brandon has said almost nothing about Voidbinding and Voidbinders to my knowledge. Can you source that information? 

[BitBitio he/him]

I can try, give me a sec to find it

 

Technically, anything in his books is a "wob"

 

 

So, no. He hasn't said it but it has been greatly implied and I know I've seen it somewhere but I just can't put my finger on it.

Edited June 30, 2018 by BitBitio the Mudkip

[Calderis he/him]

22 minutes ago, BitBitio the Mudkip said:

So, no. He hasn't said it but it has been greatly implied and I know I've seen it somewhere but I just can't put my finger on it.

The books have only shown us surges fuels by Voidlight. Anything about the source of those is assumption on our parts. 

My assertion that they aren't Voidbinding is based on Renarin. We know that his "visions" are somehow linked to the voidbinding chart per Argent's interactions with Brandon. 

I find it highly unlikely that one Surge of that chart would be so drastically different, while the others are so similar. All of the surge glyphs on the voidbinding chart have altered symmetry. We have been explicitly told that magic systems can be hacked to run on different investiture. We saw one of the Fused use illumination in the Thaylen Gem Reserve, and yet Renarin completely fails to make illusions. 

Until a WoB, or further in book evidence shows them to be Voidbinding, I don't think the implications are in that direction at all. I think they run very much in the opposite direction. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

58 minutes ago, Calderis said:

My assertion that they aren't Voidbinding is based on Renarin. We know that his "visions" are somehow linked to the voidbinding chart per Argent's interactions with Brandon. 

So even though the surge’s power source is not stormlight , The purple Voidlight ( to lack a better term powers the surge correct?”

 

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I find it highly unlikely that one Surge of that chart would be so drastically different, while the others are so similar. All of the surge glyphs on the voidbinding chart have altered symmetry. W

So what Surge was Amaram using to turn the Ground to Lava. Also, the surge that the Fuse use to grow carapace weapons, what surge do u suspect that is?

Im hoping you are wrong. I like the idea of 9 void surges and they only get one . As opposed to 10 Radiant surges and Rafians get two . 

[Calderis he/him]

4 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

So what Surge was Amaram using to turn the Ground to Lava.

Cohesion. It wasn't lava, it was just liquid. 

4 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Also, the surge that the Fuse use to grow carapace weapons, what surge do u suspect that is?

I actually think that's progression used to "grow" their carapace. 

4 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Im hoping you are wrong. I like the idea of 9 void surges and they only get one . As opposed to 10 Radiant surges and Rafians get two . 

Ah that's another point actually. Per Moash in book, there are 9 types of Fused. Per Khriss in the Ars Arcanum 

Quote

I’m not certain yet how the ten levels of Voidbinding or its cousin the Old Magic fit into this paradigm, if indeed they can. My research suggests that, indeed, there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings. Perhaps the Old Magic fits into those, though I am beginning to suspect that it is something entirely different.

The number 10 is associated with voidbinding, and it apparently does not fit neatly with surgebinding. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Calderis

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

The Unmade that Amaram ate was supposed to give u access to all 10 surges . You may be on to something . I thought it was odd the unmade gave a person access to 10 surges instead of nine.