[Theory] Broken Souls and Investiture

[Argent]

However, what I'm trying to suggest is - Lerasium rewrote the sDNA to be compatible with the abilities of a Mistborn, but Elend still needed to 'snap' in order to access the ability.

I don't think that's the case either. The reason for the Snapping is to update your sDNA and "make room" for the "can burn metals" part. Lerasium already dies that.

[Tempus]

 

 

I don't think that's the case either. The reason for the Snapping is to update your sDNA and "make room" for the "can burn metals" part. Lerasium already dies that.

 

Either way is plausible, really. Unless we see more details about Lerasium in the future, it'll probably be impossible to confirm =(

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

We know from a WoB that Lerasium re-writes the sDNA, so no emotional stress required to "break" that soul:

BRANDON SANDERSON

By burning it you gain access to those powers. It rewrites your spiritual DNA, and there are ways to do really cool things with lerasium that I don't see how anyone would know. Were most Mistborn to just burn it, it would rewrite their genetic code to increase their power as an Allomancer.

 

Source

[Argent]

Oh, hmm. Hmm! I think we've been thinking too small about the effects of lerasium. We've always kind of assumed that it either turns people into Mistborn or amplifies their Allomantic power. But this WoB leads me to believe it can do much more. If you use perform Hemalurgy (Ruin's magic system) with atium (Ruin's body/power/metal), you get to steal any Allomantic power from your target. We now know that Hemalurgy does this - and potentially many other things - by stealing a piece of the target's spirit web. Well, what if lerasium - a metal we also know can modify a person's spirit web - can do something similar, only instead of stealing bits of your own sDNA, it does... something else? I guess what I am saying is, what if lerasium's effects are not restricted to the Metallic Arts (when used by Allomancy?) the same way atium's effects are not restricted to them (when used by Hemalurgy).

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

Oh, hmm. Hmm! I think we've been thinking too small about the effects of lerasium. We've always kind of assumed that it either turns people into Mistborn or amplifies their Allomantic power. But this WoB leads me to believe it can do much more. If you use perform Hemalurgy (Ruin's magic system) with atium (Ruin's body/power/metal), you get to steal any Allomantic power from your target. We now know that Hemalurgy does this - and potentially many other things - by stealing a piece of the target's spirit web. Well, what if lerasium - a metal we also know can modify a person's spirit web - can do something similar, only instead of stealing bits of your own sDNA, it does... something else? I guess what I am saying is, what if lerasium's effects are not restricted to the Metallic Arts (when used by Allomancy?) the same way atium's effects are not restricted to them (when used by Hemalurgy).

 

Yeah, I've always assumed from that quote that with the right knowledge, Lerasium could be used to rewrite a person's spiritual web to acquire access to any Shard's magic system.  Its the only thing that would keep it in balance with what atium can do to spirit webs and foreign Investiture.

Edited March 20, 2014 by ROSHtaFARian2.0

[Tempus]

That makes a lot of sense.

No, not quite. Lerasium is not opposite of atium, not hemalurgy. Atium doesn't transfer spiritweb, hemalurgy does.

A hemalurgic spike made out of an sDNA rewriting metal, though, seems like it could steal any investiture.

Also, has anyone asked what would happen if you burned a hemalurgic spike?

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tempus

[Kurkistan]

Also, has anyone asked what would happen if you burned a hemalurgic spike?

 

Yes. The answers are confusing.

[Argent]

That makes a lot of sense.

No, not quite. Lerasium is not opposite of atium, not hemalurgy. Atium doesn't transfer spiritweb, hemalurgy does.

 

Damnit, I was hoping I'd get away with this. But the alternative is pretty boring and doesn't fit the "there are ways to do some really cool things with lerasium" (unless he is referring to using lerasium as a metalmind or hema-spike).

[Trevalion]

The level of thought Brandon put into his systems from the beginning still strikes me as remarkable, especially when you see ideas like this run though works written so far apart.

So, this issue as been unclear to me for a long time. If you can take a person's spirit from them by force with hemalurgy, what does this say about what makes up a person in the cosmere? It sounds like hemalurgy severely damages or destroys the spirit, not like taking DNA from cells from a mouth swab, but more like taking DNA by taking the whole head off. Does the remaining spirit stay "alive," and can it "heal" or does the person who had his spirit ripped to shreds by hemalurgy or Odium, or perhaps a shardblade, cease to exist? If you are a steel inquisitor, are you an amalgamation of spirits made into a new whole, or does the process simply add abilities?

In WoR, it seemed that Hoid was suggesting non-existence as the end of severe spirit damage, as he says that if Odium got ahold of him, "then I become nothing - a soul shredded and broken into pieces that cannot be reassembled." But if this is true, than isn't Hoid wasting his time trying to reassemble Adonalasium as Odium has been shredded or splintered so much of him or it? Does this mean that the splintering Odium does is permanent? Is it in all three realms? Any clear ideas or WOBs on the subject?

[Senor Feesh]

I would imagine Hemalurgy severely wounds the soul. I don't remember if there's any precedent as to whether or not this can be healed.

Wasn't there a quote somewhere about what burning the mists did to Vin (specifically at the end of HoA when she ascends)? Something about is making furrows or troughs in her spritweb? Can't imagine Hemalurgy wouldn't do some serious damage.

I agree that the amount of forethought in Realmatics is amazing. I suspect though, that most of the work was done by actually creating the underlying system of Realmatics, and by sticking to a very logical and consistent approach he's able to make it appear as though he's considered every possible interaction of every magic system (when in reality I doubt anyone would have gone so far).

[Argent]

Hemalurgy is usually fatal, and very damaging at best. But it should be noted that it's a pretty poorly understood art - there is much to discover.

Also, don't assume Hoid is trying to reassemble Adonalsium, we don't know that. It's just a popular theory.

[Truthwatcher]

I think this is a quite interesting theory, and I just thought I'd add a bit in regards to Snapping and Surgebinding. I'm new here, and still a little gun-shy when it comes to posting things without spoiler tags, so I think I'll play it safe–my apologies if this doesn't need to be tagged. Anyway, from WoR

I think that we have very good reason to believe that one can Snap in regards to surgebinding quite similarly to the way one can allomantically Snap–I don't have my copy of WoR handy at the moment, but I'm specifically thinking of the scene where Teft talks about the Envisagers, and how they basically tried to Snap themselves by putting themselves through traumatic situations.

I'm not sure exactly what this means in terms of the overall interplay between broken souls and Investiture, but I figure that any information that's relevant ought to at least be examined and taken into account.

[Argent]

I was trying to keep this thread mostly Wor-free, so more people can participate, but I'll say that I've thought about what you mentioned. It is an integral part of what made me see the connection, even if I don't discuss it specifically.