[OB] Jezrien

[Lord Meeker he/him]

I have been thinking about this quite a lot and have read it several times. How do we know that Jezrien is really dead? The Coppermind says he died, I looked through some WOB's. I have personally thought that Jezrien's soul or Shadow was captured into the Saphire in the hilt of the dagger Moash killed him with. I say this because the sapphire glows afterwards not before. I just thought that it worked on the same principal as capturing spren, I.e the Thrill/(Nergaoul?) with the Ruby. This is the first time ever I am asking some one to debunk a theory of mine and answer why he is dead.

[Nathrangking he/him]

just based on the book itself it seems to be death. The book itself and Jezrien refer to it as death. Plus what it does seems similar to what Nightblood does which is undoubtedly death. Ash refers to it as death as well. Brandon is pretty quiet on the subject. He RAFO's the questions.

[Calderis he/him]

What I believe happened at least is that the sapphire began to glow because it ripped the investiture out of his soul that bound him to the Oathpact, and consequently to immortality. 

He is stabbed, the dagger removed, and then he realizes that he is truly dying, because the dagger had already acted. 

After that removal, and death, he would have gone beyond, leaving behind the investiture that anchored him as a Cognitive Shadow within the gem. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Calderis

[A Secret Corner he/him]

26 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

just based on the book itself it seems to be death. The book itself and Jezrien refer to it as death. Plus what it does seems similar to what Nightblood does which is undoubtedly death. Ash refers to it as death as well. Brandon is pretty quiet on the subject. He RAFO's the questions.

Well as far as I see it, it probably is death.

That is, if whatever that thing was was designed smartly, it should have captured and destroyed/corrupted Jezrien's soul. 

And if Odium and his forces are incompetent in this, then Jezrien's soul might be captured in that gemstone or whatever is precisely going on here, but intact.

I don't think we know enough to tell the difference.

The difference matters, as with the latter option, it might be possible to have Jezrien's soul freed and have him be able to live...

but from a narrative standpoint, I think he's dead, and will stay dead.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

56 minutes ago, Mraize said:

the Thrill/(Nergaoul?)

You remember right(and spelled it right too )
As a sidenote, your sig says "join the ghosbloods." There should be a "t"

59 minutes ago, Mraize said:

I have personally thought that Jezrien's soul or Shadow was captured into the Sapphire in the hilt of the dagger Moash killed him with.

You said it yourself, he got killed. But in the Cosmere, death isn't always the end, as our friend from Scadrial so eloquently proves.

Think of it in terms of "dead" and "gone." During Aharietiam, Taln ended up dead, but he wasn't gone. Jezrien is dead, and he appears to have been separated from the Herald's bond, but whether or not that means he is "gone" is up for debate, since Brandon considers it as "using similar fundamentals" as Hemalurgy.

I imagine that he's gone, but I can't 100% say that he is.

[Weltall]

My guess is that the dagger didn't take Jezrien's entire soul, just the bit of it that relates to the Oathpact, his connection to the other Heralds and being a resurrecting Cognitive Shadow. Despite seeming less than fully lucid, he was able to recognize that there was something different about this death as it was happening to him, suggesting that he could feel an important part of his soul being taken from him before he actually died.

Anyhow, he himself seemed convinced that he was about to actually die, Ash clearly felt that something was wrong and Jezrien pretty much has to have been permanently killed or otherwise rendered irrelevant to the Oathpact given the elaborate method chosen for his death (the metal of the dagger is likely to be Odiuim's godmetal and then there's the sapphire doing whatever it did) as opposed to giving Moash an ordinary knife. Actually, per Jasnah's suggestion for Team Roshar's long-term strategy, simply killing any given Herald 'normally' would probably be a good thing for the Oathpact (or at least, wouldn't make anything worse) so Odium must have done something different to justify not only the setup itself but taking that action in the first place.

EDIT: Ninja'd (Szeth'd?) by the usual suspects while typing. Storms! xD

Edited June 7, 2018 by Weltall

[Lord Meeker he/him]

So in essence, the sapphire removed the bond to the Oathpact or drew it into the sapphire and the dagger killed afterwards?

[Wandering Investor]

1 hour ago, Mraize said:

So in essence, the sapphire removed the bond to the Oathpact or drew it into the sapphire and the dagger killed afterwards?

Assuming a relationship to hemalurgy, the dagger(metal part) tore off a piece of Jezrien's soul. What that piece is is unknown. It could be his connection to the oathpact, or just the investiture that Honor placed in him, or something else. Then whatever piece was torn off was stored in the sapphire. The lost of that piece caused death. I suspect Jezrien is truly dead and passed into the beyond. It would weaken the story if there are too many fake deaths.