Crossover Investiture

[TheInbornSon he/him]

The investiture in the Cosmere is all very powerful, but what if they were combined? For example, could you store the life sense that breath gives in feruchemical tin?

Edited June 6, 2018 by TheInbornSon

[Barbarian AL he/him]

Interesting question, I don't know the answer to it. But welcome to the shard! 

More experienced members will help you out!!  

[Archer he/him]

EDIT: HEADS UP, THERE MAY BE MINOR MISTBORN SPOILERS LATER ON IN THIS THREAD

Welcome to the Shard!

Theoretically, you could have some fun with hemalurgy. Giving someone the powers of some Roshar (although I think you might have meant Nalthis) and Scadrial would be simple enough, you start with someone who has the inhabitants of the planet's powers and spike them. They'd retain their life sense and be a tineye. We know from WOBs that the systems work in interesting ways when combined, but I couldn't definitively say how it would work

Edited June 6, 2018 by Archer

[Kidpen he/him]

2 hours ago, TheInbornSon said:

The investiture on Scadrial and Roshar are both very powerful, but what if they were combined? For example, could you store the life sense that breath gives in feruchemical tin?

I will mention the following WoB:

Quote

 

NewbSombrero

Can Feruchemical tin store Allomantically granted senses like bronze sense?

Brandon Sanderson

Possible.

source

Not exactly what you meant, but similar.

[TheInbornSon he/him]

If that's so, Kidpen, then would drawing on a whole bunch of it at once give the super sense that Vin gets from having the hemalurgic spike? What about compounding?

[Rage he/him]

Speaking of hemalurgy.

Welcome to the 17th shard have an up vote and a cookie!

Spoiler

 

[Argent he/him]

I've moved this to the Cosmere Discussion forum, where it more appropriately belongs. Introduce Yourself is really more for just saying hi

[RShara she/her]

8 hours ago, TheInbornSon said:

The investiture on Scadrial and Roshar are both very powerful, but what if they were combined? For example, could you store the life sense that breath gives in feruchemical tin?

Do you perhaps mean Scadrial and Nalthis? Roshar has surgebinding. Nalthis has Breath.

Quote

BartimaeusTrilogyFan

Can Feruchemists store more than the five ‘traditional’ senses, and does Allomantic tin enhance more than the traditional five senses?

Brandon Sanderson

More is possible.

source

Brandon implies it is possible to store different senses here. I'm not sure if it would be able to store life sense from Breath, since it's technically not the same type of investiture. It's probably possible, but would need some "hacking" to do.

[TheInbornSon he/him]

Something that really interests me is the feruchemical storage of investiture in nicrosil, because there are so many ways it could work. Would it be storing specific kinds of investiture, like allomancy, stormlight, or breath, or does it store generic investiture, like you store stormlight investiture, but draw on it on Nalthis, would it come out as stormlight or breath? Could you compound it to create breaths or stormlight? Does it store specific abilities, like could a mistborn just store one ability, or all of them? Would a windrunner store their specific abilities? And then what about Renarin's lightweaving? He somewhat foretells the future, so would drawing on that show the same thing or would it show something different? What about hemalurgic investiture, could that be stored?

I think about this stuff too much.

Edited June 6, 2018 by TheInbornSon

[Wandering Investor]

Feruchemy can store investiture in nicrosil. This includes the different Allomantic powers, so it very likely includes powers from other worlds. You could very likely store the investiture from Nathis or Roshar. For Roshar it would probably take the form of storing separate surges. Nalthis would be a bit more complicated, I'm not sure if it would store the breath, or the side effect of the breath such as health, life, lifesense, color bending, etc.

@TheInbornSon Duralium stores connection, did you mean nicrosil? Nicrosil can be used to store innate magic abilities. So you could make a nicrosil-mind to store pewter-burning for instance, and another for tin. You can only store one power per metalmind though. As for how it works with raw investiture, stormlight and what not, I'm not sure.

[Nohadon he/him]

Here's my headcannon for investiture crossovers:

Feruchemy:

1. Tin can store all senses granted, including: Bronze-sense, steelvision, colour aura vision thing and life sense
2. Nicrosil stores any type of investiture, but can only be accessed by people who's spiritual web is compatible with it unless you create an unsealed metalmind (something we have no idea how to do) if an unkeyed/unsealed metalmind is made it is possible to transfer any number of breaths instead of all of them.
3. Since It's been shown in BoM, we see that the investiture stored is of a specific subtype, not just 'investiture of preservation.' meaning if you want to store steel, you don't store allomancy, you actively burn steel and then change the link from you to the power of preservation to the nicrosilmind and the power of preservation. I beleive this suggests that individual surges and aons are stored in nicrosilminds, not just stormlight or the dor.
4. Connection feruchemy could possible make it so elantrians do not need to be near elantris to draw aons by storing their connection to the dor, then tapping it at a later time, although this might attribute closer to storing investiture, but I dunno.

Stormlight:

1.  The enhanced body that is received when holding stormlight allows the user to more effeciently store their feruchemical metalminds, similar to burning pewter and storing speed.

2. If a coin is lashed upwards several times, and a lurcher pulls on the coin, the lurcher might be able to fly.

3. A radiant could potentially store his/her spren in a nicrocilmind to take them off the rosharan system.

4. We have WoB confirmation that it is possible to spike out a nahel bond from a radiant, but to do this you would have to be able to spike the spren and the radiant, we do not know if you can spike out individual surges.

(I have to go now, I will edit in the rest later)

[Wandering Investor]

On 6/7/2018 at 4:21 AM, Nohadon said:

Nicrosil stores any type of investiture, but can only be accessed by people who's spiritual web is compatible with it unless you create an unsealed metalmind (something we have no idea how to do) if an unkeyed/unsealed metalmind is made it is possible to transfer any number of breaths instead of all of them.

One method for accomplishing this would be storing your identity, and then creating the metalmind. The identity part is what keys the metalmind to you. If you have no identity when you create the metalmind, then it is unkeyed. It is unknown if southern Scadrial uses this method or not. But for that method to work, there has to be no identity when storing. So it would be a bit complicated for just transferring breaths, since they can easily rekey themselves.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

37 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

One method for accomplishing this would be storing your identity, and then creating the metalmind. The identity part is what keys the metalmind to you. If you have no identity when you create the metalmind, then it is unkeyed.

That wouldn't be enough. An Unkeyed Nicrosilmind could only be tapped by a Nicrosil Ferring. That's what Nohadon means by "compatible spiritweb."

Identity restricts the Metalmind to you, but something else restricts the Metalmind to people with that power. Unsealed does away with that restriction, through methods that we have no idea about.

[Wandering Investor]

3 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

That wouldn't be enough. An Unkeyed Nicrosilmind could only be tapped by a Nicrosil Ferring. That's what Nohadon means by "compatible spiritweb."

Identity restricts the Metalmind to you, but something else restricts the Metalmind to people with that power. Unsealed does away with that restriction, through methods that we have no idea about.

I was under the impression that anyone could tap the nicrosil metalmind. It then contained the Feruchemy power to tap the other metalmind. Once you gained that ability, then you tapped the other mind for the connection/heat/weight. That's why the Southern Scadrial medallions had two metals, one nicrosil, and another for the desired power.

I do not see why they would include the nicrosil metalmind, if they could simply unseal the other metalmind in the first place.

Reviewed the great Coppermind, and now I'm questioning whether I'm right. Might have to go do a reread. Or wait for the next Mistborn book and see if it is explained how the medallions are created.

[Calderis he/him]

@Wandering Investor if anyone could tap nicrosil, there would be no designation of a nicrosil (Soulbearer) Ferring.

Something has to be done to make the nicrosil usable by anyone, and that's the one part we don't understand about the medallions.

If identity were all that mattered, the identity free goldmind that Wayne receives in BoM should have also been usable by anyone, but it was limited to him as he already has the power to tap gold. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Calderis