How did Adonalsium create aluminum?

[kevinivek2]

I don‘t know if someone talked about it already or if it is just a plain wrong thought, but if aluminum messes with investiture, how did adonalsium create it?

[Leyrann]

Perhaps similar to how something can be soulcast into aluminium or how allomancers and feruchemists can still burn/store it.

[ZenBossanova]

Let's not take Creation Ex Nihilo (Creation out of nothing)  for granted. He might be more of an organizer of previously existing material. 

How do we know he has actually created anything out of thin air? 

[Master Knapper]

Could Aluminum be Adonalsium's God Metal?  It seems like it has an impact across all of the magic systems.

[Weltall]

As mentioned, aluminum can be created via Soulcasting (and presumably by other methods) but once it exists it will resist any attempt to transform it via Investiture. It can also form naturally. Since it only becomes an Investiture Black Hole after it's formed, there's no paradox to its existence.

1 hour ago, ZenBossanova said:

Let's not take Creation Ex Nihilo (Creation out of nothing)  for granted. He might be more of an organizer of previously existing material. 

How do we know he has actually created anything out of thin air? 

Well, we know he designed the primary landmass of Roshar and the way Brandon himself created the continent is meant to highlight this special creation, which was not through natural buildup of crem. Whether you want to argue over whether there was already a planetary body there that Adonalsium tweaked, I think making a continent where there wasn't one is pretty impressive.

And then as I was looking for the supporting WoBs I knew about, I found this gem:

Quote

Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Was just the continent of Roshar created by Adonalsium or was the whole system created?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Whole system was created.

source

So yeah, Adonalsium is confirmed to have created entire star systems. Beyond that, we know that Preservation and Ruin acting together were able to create an entire planet and they're only one-eighth of Adonalsium's power so we've known since Mistborn Era 1 that ex nihilo creation is within Adonalsium's power.

My current thinking is that Adonalsium didn't actually create the entire Cosmere but he/it definitely created parts of it directly and influenced the rest. Brandon has RAFO'd whether Adonalsium created the entire universe or even just the galaxy the Cosmere takes place in but he's also said that Roshar is not the only planet 'grown' by Adonalsium.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Weltall

[Spoolofwhool]

5 hours ago, Weltall said:

So yeah, Adonalsium is confirmed to have created entire star systems. Beyond that, we know that Preservation and Ruin acting together were able to create an entire planet and they're only one-eighth of Adonalsium's power so we've known since Mistborn Era 1 that ex nihilo creation is within Adonalsium's power.

Note though that Ruin and Preservation didn't create the matter which constitutes Scadrial, they likely just gathered and shaped what was in the ambient system.

Quote

Questioner

Can Odium or any other [Shards] edit text like Ruin could? ...Or is that a special Ruin thing.  

Brandon Sanderson

This is possible for others as well. The trick about it is, [Ruin] saturated everything on Scadrial in a way that not all Shards saturate their planets.  

Questioner

Okay, what do you mean "saturate"?

Brandon Sanderson

Creating it, does that make sense? And so this was partially an aspect that everything on that planet, every atom was, y'know, had him in it... I mean he didn't create the atoms, let's say that, but yeah... The whole planet existence and particularly the people on it are [Ruin], attuned to [Ruin].

source

 

[Kidpen]

6 hours ago, Master Knapper said:

Could Aluminum be Adonalsium's God Metal?  It seems like it has an impact across all of the magic systems.

*Gasp* I really really like this theory. It's a really good theory.

[RShara]

8 hours ago, Master Knapper said:

Could Aluminum be Adonalsium's God Metal?  It seems like it has an impact across all of the magic systems.

I don't think so.  The god-metals we've seen have all been pure versions.  As in, there's no refinement involved for atium, lerasium, harmonium (that we've seen), the Shardblades, etc.  Aluminum needs to be refined and occurs very rarely in nature.

[Fezzik]

All of the god metals are solid investiture, and the Cosmere follows our laws plus investiture. Thus, I don't believe any god metal would be naturally (on earth) occurring. Far more likely, to me, is that Adonalsium's god metal is the eponymous Dragonsteel.

[Kidpen]

4 minutes ago, John203 said:

All of the god metals are solid investiture, and the Cosmere follows our laws plus investiture. Thus, I don't believe any god metal would be naturally (on earth) occurring. Far more likely, to me, is that Adonalsium's god metal is the eponymous Dragonsteel.

Fair, but how do we know that cosmere aluminum is the same as earth aluminum?

[Weltall]

Well, there's the fact that it occurs naturally in the Cosmere under the same circumstances that it does in real life. There's a reason that Scadrial got its aluminum from the ashmounts during the Final Empire and why Roshar doesn't have natural deposits of it. And remember that Scadrial didn't exist at the time of the Shattering. Brandon has said that atium isn't made any more now that Ati is dead so by extension it would be rather hard to imagine aluminum continuing to be produced after Adonalsium was Shattered, if you thought it was its godmetal.

And then there's the fact that you can Soulcast things into aluminum but you explicitly can't create atium or lerasium via Soulcasting.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Weltall

[Fezzik]

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117-boskone-54/#e1685

Here is a question about the composition of scadrial's crust and aluminum and Brandon refers to it as a metal in both earth and the cosmere.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/117-boskone-54/#e1629

The end of this one describes the origin of aluminum's role in the cosmere. 

[Stark]

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, I'm intrigued by aluminum, especially the fact that it can only be found by Soulcasting on Roshar. So, how was it discovered in the first place?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

...Did I say you can only get it through Soulcasting?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

In the Shallan flashbacks, she has the pendant.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Don't take what she says at 100% truth.

source

Unless we see them actual Soulcast something into Aluminum on Roshar, I would hesitate to take it as fact based on this WOB.  Young Shallan was an unreliable narrator at the best of times.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

So, we know that things can be Soulcast into aluminum. But can aluminum itself be Soulcast into something else?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

It resists all forms of Investiture trying to change it to things.

source

This second WOB does not explicitly state that other objects can become Aluminum, only that it resists all forms of investiture trying to change it.  So Shallan's necklace may not have been Soulcast.  And if it was not Soulcast, and it was not possible to be found on Roshar through conventional means, than the merchant who sold it to Shallan's dad should be looked at as a Worldhopping candidate.

I'm in the camp that Aluminum is Adonalsium's God metal, based on the fact that it is everywhere and universally resistant to Investiture.  But also because of the metal tables on Scadrial.  I've gone into this at length in another thread that I've forgotten the location of, but it essentially goes as follows:  Brandon has stated that the Ars Arcanum in a given book is only as accurate as the in world knowledge available to Khriss when she writes them.  So future books may reveal errors in previous books, or Eras, understanding.  The rest, I will spoiler for length, and because it is a rehash of what I've posted elsewhere.  Also Mistborn spoilers.

 

Spoiler

A TL:DR summary will follow

 

In Era 1 mistborn, the first book, the understanding was that there were 8 basic metals, and two strange metals, grouped as follows:

Physicals:

Iron, Steel, Pewter, Tin

Mentals:

Zinc, Brass, Copper, Bronze

Other:

Atium and Gold

Atium and Gold were paired together because they seemed to do similar activities - See other's future, see your past.  This similarity is important.

Later, by HoA, this was expanded as they discovered more metals:

Physical quadrant:

Steel (External, push) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Iron (Enternal, Pull) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Pewter (Internal, Push) Boosted physical strength and resistance

Tin (Internal, Pull) Boosted senses

Mental Quadrant:

Zinc (External, Pull) Enhance emotional states

Brass (External, Push) Reduce Emotional states

Copper (Internal, Pull) Immunity to mental allomancy

Bronze (Internal, Push) Detect Allomancy

Temporal Quadrant:

Atium (External, Pull) See the future of others

Malatium (External, Push) See the past of others

Gold (Internal, Pull) See own past

Electrum (Internal, Push) See own future

Enhancement Quadrant:

Aluminum (Internal, Pull) Wipe own stores

Duralumin (Internal, Push) Burst own stores

What is important to note here, relative to the Aluminum is a God metal discussion is three things.  I will get into the other two later, but first is the temporal quadrant.  It is the only quadrant where the Internal and External metals are perfectly complementary  Both Internal and external metal sets in this quadrant deal with seeing past or future of a subject.  The other quadrants, Internal pairings are always complementary, as are External pairings.  But External and Internal are not - they affect different things.  Except right here, where we have a God metal hidden in a basic quadrant.  This is important.

 

By Era 2, thanks to Saze and Spook, we have an update on the tables.  We have learned during Era 1 that Atium was a God metal, and therefore did not belong on the basic table, and that in theory there are 16 alloys of a God metal, one for each basic, that each have an effect.  I believe Malatium was shown to be an alloy of Gold and Atium.  Lerasium was rare enough that we never saw any of its alloys, and I don't think we ever saw any other Atium alloys.

 

As a result, the Metal table became as follows, for the basic metals:

Physical quadrant:

Steel (External, push) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Iron (Enternal, Pull) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Pewter (Internal, Push) Boosted physical strength and resistance

Tin (Internal, Pull) Boosted senses

Mental Quadrant:

Zinc (External, Pull) Enhance emotional states

Brass (External, Push) Reduce Emotional states

Copper (Internal, Pull) Immunity to mental allomancy

Bronze (Internal, Push) Detect Allomancy

Temporal Quadrant:

Cadmium (External, Pull) Slow time in a large bubble around self

Bendalloy (External, Push) Speed time in a limited bubble around self

Gold (Internal, Pull) See own past

Electrum (Internal, Push) See own future

Enhancement Quadrant:

Aluminum (Internal, Pull) Wipe own stores

Duralumin (Internal, Push) Burst own stores

Nicrosil (External, Push) Burst stores of others

Chromium (External, Pull) Wipe stores of others

Now that the God metal has been removed from the basic table, we see that the external and internal metals no longer perfectly complement each other, just like the physical and mental metals.But, in the Enhancement Quadrant we have a new set of perfectly complemented Internal and External metals!  This is my big flag for Aluminum.  It has the same pattern for Atium when placed in the metal tables - it perfectly complements all the metals in the Quadrant.  This is important thing number two.

Now, we know that using non-viable metals is unpleasant for Allomancers, and possibly deadly.  This discourages experimentation with new metals.  Vin only experimented with Aluminum Alloys because she knew there had to be a pairing, and even then, she was very careful.  And as soon as she found a vaible Alloy, she stopped looking for others.  Basic metals only have one alloy pairing, why look for more?  But God metals have a pairing with each of the basic metals.  And guess what?  Duralumin is an Alloy of aluminum and copper, one of the basic metals.  Which in and of itself does  not prove anything, but this is important thing number three.

Does this prove anything? No.  But it is highly suspicious.  Both Atium and Aluminum give the appearance of a perfectly complementary Quadrant, and both make Alloys with other base metals.  That is a strong correlation for me.  Add that to Allomancers being unwilling to experiment with new metals when they have an apparently perfect table due to the health risks, and that correlation feels stronger to me.

Do I have any proof of this? No.  I tried to word a question to get a WOB, and was RAFO'd, unsurprisingly.

A valid point against is Harmony.  He has the knowledge and willingness to share it.  He did so in Era 1, telling them there were other metals to discover.  Would he not have pointed out that Aluminum was something different?  Well, good point.  Maybe.  But, we saw in Oathbringer, in his response to Hoid's letter, that he is not omnipotent.  He does not know everything.  In Era 2, we see him withholding information, and musing that he stunted the Northern hemisphere's tech development by giving them a paradise.  He gave them too much, and they stopped developing.  So we know that he has learned to withhold information and let them make their own discoveries.  With the occasional tantalizing hint (movies for example).  So he told them there were more metals, but that does not preclude him not knowing about the true nature of aluminum, or withholding that info so they can learn on their own.

Aditionally, no other metal that is useful for accessing Investiture on Scadrial has an effect on Investiture anywhere else.  But everywhere we go, Aluminum resists.  It cannot be pulled or pushed, nothing inside it can be manipulated.  It cannot be Soulcast.  It cannot be Forged.  It blocks detection.  It cannot be Awakened.  It contains Nightblood.  It contains freaking NIGHTBLOOD.

And finally, the twist.  Brandon is not adverse to plot twists, if they serve the narrative, and are not there for the sake of being a twist. We have seen Brandon fake us out with Atium.  We would not expect him to pull the same fake out with us, on the same planet, twice in a row.  or for the in world characters to get caught by it either.  But by giving us a reveal in the same vein, most of us would stop looking in that direction for a second reveal.  The whole fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, shame on us mentality.  It is sleight of hand at its finest.

 

 

TL:DR: I think Aluminum is a god metal because it fits the same pattern that Atium had before it when compared to the basic metals, and because it affects investiture the same way everywhere.  And the twist is just too good.  But I have zero proof.

 

[Leyrann]

1 hour ago, Stark said:

Unless we see them actual Soulcast something into Aluminum on Roshar, I would hesitate to take it as fact based on this WOB.  Young Shallan was an unreliable narrator at the best of times.

This second WOB does not explicitly state that other objects can become Aluminum, only that it resists all forms of investiture trying to change it.  So Shallan's necklace may not have been Soulcast.  And if it was not Soulcast, and it was not possible to be found on Roshar through conventional means, than the merchant who sold it to Shallan's dad should be looked at as a Worldhopping candidate.

I'm in the camp that Aluminum is Adonalsium's God metal, based on the fact that it is everywhere and universally resistant to Investiture.  But also because of the metal tables on Scadrial.  I've gone into this at length in another thread that I've forgotten the location of, but it essentially goes as follows:  Brandon has stated that the Ars Arcanum in a given book is only as accurate as the in world knowledge available to Khriss when she writes them.  So future books may reveal errors in previous books, or Eras, understanding.  The rest, I will spoiler for length, and because it is a rehash of what I've posted elsewhere.  Also Mistborn spoilers.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

A TL:DR summary will follow

 

In Era 1 mistborn, the first book, the understanding was that there were 8 basic metals, and two strange metals, grouped as follows:

Physicals:

Iron, Steel, Pewter, Tin

Mentals:

Zinc, Brass, Copper, Bronze

Other:

Atium and Gold

Atium and Gold were paired together because they seemed to do similar activities - See other's future, see your past.  This similarity is important.

Later, by HoA, this was expanded as they discovered more metals:

Physical quadrant:

Steel (External, push) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Iron (Enternal, Pull) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Pewter (Internal, Push) Boosted physical strength and resistance

Tin (Internal, Pull) Boosted senses

Mental Quadrant:

Zinc (External, Pull) Enhance emotional states

Brass (External, Push) Reduce Emotional states

Copper (Internal, Pull) Immunity to mental allomancy

Bronze (Internal, Push) Detect Allomancy

Temporal Quadrant:

Atium (External, Pull) See the future of others

Malatium (External, Push) See the past of others

Gold (Internal, Pull) See own past

Electrum (Internal, Push) See own future

Enhancement Quadrant:

Aluminum (Internal, Pull) Wipe own stores

Duralumin (Internal, Push) Burst own stores

What is important to note here, relative to the Aluminum is a God metal discussion is three things.  I will get into the other two later, but first is the temporal quadrant.  It is the only quadrant where the Internal and External metals are perfectly complementary  Both Internal and external metal sets in this quadrant deal with seeing past or future of a subject.  The other quadrants, Internal pairings are always complementary, as are External pairings.  But External and Internal are not - they affect different things.  Except right here, where we have a God metal hidden in a basic quadrant.  This is important.

 

By Era 2, thanks to Saze and Spook, we have an update on the tables.  We have learned during Era 1 that Atium was a God metal, and therefore did not belong on the basic table, and that in theory there are 16 alloys of a God metal, one for each basic, that each have an effect.  I believe Malatium was shown to be an alloy of Gold and Atium.  Lerasium was rare enough that we never saw any of its alloys, and I don't think we ever saw any other Atium alloys.

 

As a result, the Metal table became as follows, for the basic metals:

Physical quadrant:

Steel (External, push) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Iron (Enternal, Pull) Allowed limited metal based telekinesis

Pewter (Internal, Push) Boosted physical strength and resistance

Tin (Internal, Pull) Boosted senses

Mental Quadrant:

Zinc (External, Pull) Enhance emotional states

Brass (External, Push) Reduce Emotional states

Copper (Internal, Pull) Immunity to mental allomancy

Bronze (Internal, Push) Detect Allomancy

Temporal Quadrant:

Cadmium (External, Pull) Slow time in a large bubble around self

Bendalloy (External, Push) Speed time in a limited bubble around self

Gold (Internal, Pull) See own past

Electrum (Internal, Push) See own future

Enhancement Quadrant:

Aluminum (Internal, Pull) Wipe own stores

Duralumin (Internal, Push) Burst own stores

Nicrosil (External, Push) Burst stores of others

Chromium (External, Pull) Wipe stores of others

Now that the God metal has been removed from the basic table, we see that the external and internal metals no longer perfectly complement each other, just like the physical and mental metals.But, in the Enhancement Quadrant we have a new set of perfectly complemented Internal and External metals!  This is my big flag for Aluminum.  It has the same pattern for Atium when placed in the metal tables - it perfectly complements all the metals in the Quadrant.  This is important thing number two.

Now, we know that using non-viable metals is unpleasant for Allomancers, and possibly deadly.  This discourages experimentation with new metals.  Vin only experimented with Aluminum Alloys because she knew there had to be a pairing, and even then, she was very careful.  And as soon as she found a vaible Alloy, she stopped looking for others.  Basic metals only have one alloy pairing, why look for more?  But God metals have a pairing with each of the basic metals.  And guess what?  Duralumin is an Alloy of aluminum and copper, one of the basic metals.  Which in and of itself does  not prove anything, but this is important thing number three.

Does this prove anything? No.  But it is highly suspicious.  Both Atium and Aluminum give the appearance of a perfectly complementary Quadrant, and both make Alloys with other base metals.  That is a strong correlation for me.  Add that to Allomancers being unwilling to experiment with new metals when they have an apparently perfect table due to the health risks, and that correlation feels stronger to me.

Do I have any proof of this? No.  I tried to word a question to get a WOB, and was RAFO'd, unsurprisingly.

A valid point against is Harmony.  He has the knowledge and willingness to share it.  He did so in Era 1, telling them there were other metals to discover.  Would he not have pointed out that Aluminum was something different?  Well, good point.  Maybe.  But, we saw in Oathbringer, in his response to Hoid's letter, that he is not omnipotent.  He does not know everything.  In Era 2, we see him withholding information, and musing that he stunted the Northern hemisphere's tech development by giving them a paradise.  He gave them too much, and they stopped developing.  So we know that he has learned to withhold information and let them make their own discoveries.  With the occasional tantalizing hint (movies for example).  So he told them there were more metals, but that does not preclude him not knowing about the true nature of aluminum, or withholding that info so they can learn on their own.

Aditionally, no other metal that is useful for accessing Investiture on Scadrial has an effect on Investiture anywhere else.  But everywhere we go, Aluminum resists.  It cannot be pulled or pushed, nothing inside it can be manipulated.  It cannot be Soulcast.  It cannot be Forged.  It blocks detection.  It cannot be Awakened.  It contains Nightblood.  It contains freaking NIGHTBLOOD.

And finally, the twist.  Brandon is not adverse to plot twists, if they serve the narrative, and are not there for the sake of being a twist. We have seen Brandon fake us out with Atium.  We would not expect him to pull the same fake out with us, on the same planet, twice in a row.  or for the in world characters to get caught by it either.  But by giving us a reveal in the same vein, most of us would stop looking in that direction for a second reveal.  The whole fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, shame on us mentality.  It is sleight of hand at its finest.

 

 

TL:DR: I think Aluminum is a god metal because it fits the same pattern that Atium had before it when compared to the basic metals, and because it affects investiture the same way everywhere.  And the twist is just too good.  But I have zero proof.

 

I have to say, that is actually a lot more convincing than I expected it to be, though the difference between atium and aluminium is that aluminium can be found in our periodic table.

I do like the crazy theories though, so let's assume it's true, what metal would then belong in the places of aluminium and duralumin? Well, first of all, the Allomantic Table has a symmetry in the crystal structure of it's metals* (note that this is only valid for pure metals; alloys do not have a set crystal structure). The structure we want to find is FCC. Available metals for this are Calcium, Nickel, Strontium, Rhodium, Palladium, Ytterbium, Iridium, Platinum, Lead, Astatine, Actinium and Thorium. Additionally, the noble gases and several extremely heavy elements have this structure, but noble gases are not relevant due to their extremely low melting points and the heavy elements are not relevant due to their lack of natural occurence and high radioactivity.

So what can we cross off? Calcium, Nickel and Lead are unlikely. Lead was known in ancient times already and nickel was one of the very first 'new' elements to be discovered, in 1751. Considering the importance of metals on Scadrial, we can expect the discovery there to be at an even lower level of technology. Calcium can be found in (relatively) significant amounts in our food, and would be found through instinctual burning. Arguably, Platinum can also be crossed off because of it's early discovery (1735), but considering this metal is much more expensive, it can maybe not be ruled out for certain.

Strontium can perhaps be ruled out for the same reason as Calcium, as it behaves similarly in water and is relatively common. It is, however, used far less by living organisms, which would reduce exposure. Still, this metal has been discovered already in 1787 and would likely have been known during MB2, even though, as you said, experimentation is discouraged by risk of failure.

Update: We have Rhodium, Palladium, Ytterbium, Iridium, Astatine, Actinium and Thorium left. Astatine and Actinium have no stable isotopes, and barely appear naturally, so we can probably rule them out. Thorium has no stable isotopes either, but does have an isotope with a half life of 10^10 years. Possible but unlikely.

Rhodium is one of the rarest precious metals, making it a possible candidate. It might also be too rare though. It was, for reference, discovered in 1804.

Palladium, which can be found in between Rhodium and Silver in the periodic table, is a favorite of mine, because it is often a very good catalyst for many kinds of reactions. It is rare, but not as rare as Rhodium, and I think it could have realistically escaped discovery by the time of MB2. It was discovered in 1802 however (by the same guy who discovered Rhodium) which makes it likely MB2 was aware of the existence of the metal. Still, they may have not realized it is allomantically active.

There's little to say about Ytterbium. It's possible, but not necessarily likely. It was only discovered in 1878.

Iridium is a neighbor of Rhodium and Platinum (and shares a corner with Palladium) and is frequently used as a catalyst, but also very rare. It was discovered in 1803.

So, out of these four, I'd say Palladium is the most likely, but none strike me as particularly likely.

--

*There is also a mistake. Tin only adopts the FCC structure below a certain temperature (about 13 C, iirc), otherwise having a TETR structure, while it's place in the Allomantic Table is supposed to be FCC. This can be explained in that Brandon originally had silver at spot, but later changed this; silver does always have the FCC structure.

(and one final note, I forgot to mention silver in the rest of my post, having it appear in the footnote only. We have this WoB (AoB, Annotation of Brandon?) though)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/270-the-hero-of-ages-annotations/#e7983

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Sixty - Part One

Silver, the Useless Metal

I've annotated about this before, but I figured I'd mention it again. As you probably know, in book one, tin was originally silver. I swapped it out for various reasons.

However, that left silver having no Allomantic powers. That feels strange to a lot of people because of how common and useful it is in our modern culture. Such an obvious metal doing nothing seems wrong to readers.

I toyed with using it in place of aluminum at the end of book one, but I realized that wouldn't work. It was too common, so if it had any Allomantic powers, people would know about them for certain. Only a metal that was very hard to find—like aluminum—would be believable as a new metal that most people hadn't heard of.

So silver is Allomantically inert. Just one of the quirks of the magic system.

So yeah, all things said and done, it could be, but I don't really think it likely. If aluminium is in fact a fake, I'd go for palladium or platinum as the real one, which are coincidentally also right under one another in the periodic table.

(okay, this is becoming a neverending post)

There's one more thing we might have to consider, and that's that Brandon is throwing us off with the symmetry. As it is right now, the Internal Pulling metals (copper, gold, aluminium, tin below a certain temperature) have FCC structure, the Internal Pushing on the right side (zinc, cadmium) have HCP structure, and the Internal Pushing metals on the left side (iron, chromium) have BCC structure. It could theoratically be that tin isn't a mistake (even though it's actually correct below a certain temperature), and then we would be looking for a TETR structure to pair it up with. There are only two tetrahedical structures other than tin in the entire periodic table (at least at standard temperature and pressure) and those are indium and protactinium. Protactinium's most stable isotope has a half life time of 10^4 years, so can probably be ruled out. Indium is not too rare to be possible (it is about as rare as silver), so it could be an option. Technically, it is radioactive, but that's on a time scale that you really wouldn't need to worry about it as an allomancer. Or anyone, really. It was discovered, for the record, in 1863 and isolated in 1864.

Okay, REAL conclusion now: Nice theory, but I doubt there's a good candidate that can take aluminium's place. If it turns out to be true, I'm going for palladium (possible due to scarcity and usefulness in the industry and therefore a relatively likely candidate), platinum (relatively scarce, relatively well-known to the average reader, but hard to explain away being unknown in MB2) or indium (only if Brandon really, really wants to mess with us).

Edited April 12, 2018 by Leyrann

[RShara]

1 hour ago, Stark said:

I'm in the camp that Aluminum is Adonalsium's God metal, based on the fact that it is everywhere and universally resistant to Investiture. 

But what about how it has to be refined, unlike all the other god metals we've seen?  And the fact that it's present on Scadrial, which was created after the Shattering, when Adonalsium would no longer exist?

[Stark]

31 minutes ago, RShara said:

But what about how it has to be refined, unlike all the other god metals we've seen?

Yup.  That is a really, really good point. Couple of points actually.  Have an upvote for making me think.  I don't have a good answer for that sadly. But I'll try.

 

I'll address the best point first.  Scadrial was created after the shattering.If we assume that Adonalsium was like the Irial describe, creator of all that is now experiencing itself, one could argue that the essence of Adonalsium permeates all.  So anything created from the building blocks of the Cosmere would contain elements of Adonalsium, whether it was created before or after the shattering.  For living things, this is investiture.  For planets, this is Aluminum?  

 

I know.  Very weak argument.  I don't expect it to convince you.  But you cannot create something from nothing.  So Ruin and Preservation had to get the planetary and biomass from somewhere to make a planet.  And everything available would have been made by Adonalsium.  So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that all planets would contain traces of Adonalsium, in this case - Aluminum, the God metal.

Which ties into the first point.  He came before, so his god metal is woven into everything and must be refined out.  The Shards came after, and there metals are more topical.  Ati's condenses in a specific crystal formation near his perpindicularity and reacts to Preservations power, and must be harvested from bulbs.  Leras' seemed to be at his perpindicularity as well.  But no growth pattern.  Tananvast's and Cultivations (Assuming spren blades are made of one or the other based on spren affiliation, or a mix) condense only when spren take physical form.  The others we ( or I, in any case) do not know anything about. 

 

But again, all speculation.  II do not have a good answer to your counter.

 

@LeyrannHave an upvote for going off the deep end with the atomic chemistry of the metals.  You lost me a few sentences in.  I get some of what you are saying, but that is so far outside my knowledge base that I cannot respond in an equivalent manner.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Stark

[Leyrann]

3 minutes ago, Stark said:

@LeyrannHave an upvote for going off the deep end with the atomic chemistry of the metals.  You lost me a few sentences in.  I get some of what you are saying, but that is so far outside my knowledge base that I cannot respond in an equivalent manner.

The exact names of the crystal structures aren't important. It's just that, on a molecular level, there are something like 8 or so possible structures for a crystal to take, and that's displayed symmetrically in the allomantic table.

[Stark]

I did not know that.  That is super cool.  Unsurprising that the research is that well done, but super cool nonetheless.  Do you think that was intentional?

[Leyrann]

2 minutes ago, Stark said:

I did not know that.  That is super cool.  Unsurprising that the research is that well done, but super cool nonetheless.  Do you think that was intentional?

It definitely was. I'd never have figured it out if I hadn't read about it in a WoB first.

[RShara]

14 minutes ago, Stark said:

Yup.  That is a really, really good point. Couple of points actually.  Have an upvote for making me think.  I don't have a good answer for that sadly. But I'll try.

 

I'll address the best point first.  Scadrial was created after the shattering.If we assume that Adonalsium was like the Irial describe, creator of all that is now experiencing itself, one could argue that the essence of Adonalsium permeates all.  So anything created from the building blocks of the Cosmere would contain elements of Adonalsium, whether it was created before or after the shattering.  For living things, this is investiture.  For planets, this is Aluminum?  

 

I know.  Very weak argument.  I don't expect it to convince you.  But you cannot create something from nothing.  So Ruin and Preservation had to get the planetary and biomass from somewhere to make a planet.  And everything available would have been made by Adonalsium.  So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that all planets would contain traces of Adonalsium, in this case - Aluminum, the God metal.

Which ties into the first point.  He came before, so his god metal is woven into everything and must be refined out.  The Shards came after, and there metals are more topical.  Ati's condenses in a specific crystal formation near his perpindicularity and reacts to Preservations power, and must be harvested from bulbs.  Leras' seemed to be at his perpindicularity as well.  But no growth pattern.  Tananvast's and Cultivations (Assuming spren blades are made of one or the other based on spren affiliation, or a mix) condense only when spren take physical form.  The others we ( or I, in any case) do not know anything about. 

 

But again, all speculation.  II do not have a good answer to your counter.

 

@LeyrannHave an upvote for going off the deep end with the atomic chemistry of the metals.  You lost me a few sentences in.  I get some of what you are saying, but that is so far outside my knowledge base that I cannot respond in an equivalent manner.

Yeah, sorry not convincing me, lol.  Upvote anyway for the thought put in!

[Stark]

I expect nothing less from one of the skeptics of the Arcanum.  I'll convince you all of something one day, and it may even be something true.  But not this day it would seem.  Thanks for the upvote and please keep challenging my theories, crazy or not.  It forces me to craft better arguments, and I appreciate the mix of counterpoints and constructive criticism.

[RShara]

Nevah! (Kidding)