Kidpen he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) If nightblood destroys things in all three realms, and the spiritual realm is all places and all times, shouldn’t Nightblood make it so it’s as if people never existed? I might just not understand how the spiritual realm works though. Thanks! Edited March 23, 2018 by Kidpen 1
0 Oversleep Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 To say that Spiritual Realm is "all places and all times" or that time and space do not exist there is a bit misleading. They're not nearly as important as in Physical or Cognitive Realm, but they are in Spiritual too: for example there are Connections to places (which would not make sense if all places were one in Spiritual) and we know that Spiritwebs degrade after death (which again would not make sense if time did not exist in Spiritual). For example, you can look into past and future because time exists in Spiritual Realm. It's just it's not as binding, it's just another dimension in there, like height or depth in Physical. Just like you can look up and down, you can look into past and the future in Spiritual Realm. Does that make sense? Following from that, when Nightblood consumes Investiture, it does not erase it from history or anything. It just vaporizes.
0 RShara she/her Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 So in the Spiritual Realm, time isn't a factor, but it still recognizes the existence of time. So your living self's spiritweb is destroyed, and the investiture in it is eaten, but there's still records of it from the past that still exist. Does that make sense?
0 Yezrien Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Yeah, this is a very confusing issue. I have four theories, which I'm sure someone more cosmere-aware than me shall rip to shreds: The timelessness of the spiritual realm is confined to the spiritual realm. Nightblood can make it so that your soul never existed, but not your mind and body. If there are beings that exist entirely in the spiritual realm, they will forget you, but beings in the cognitive and physical realms will not. And your actions on those realms will not be retroactively erased. The timelessness of the spiritual realm means that all souls are permanent, and cannot be truly destroyed. Nightblood can destroy your soul today, but your soul still existed yesterday. And in the spiritual realm, yesterday and tomorrow are one and the same. That which existed yesterday will continue to exist tomorrow, even if it was destroyed today. Nightblood cannot eradicate your soul from all times at once unless he enters the spiritual realm. And if that happens, the entire cosmere is in serious trouble. Changing the past just isn't possible in the cosmere. Nightblood's spiritual destruction should ripple backwards through time, but there are forces in place that prevent this. It may involve the web of spiritual Connections that binds all things: you can't change one thing without changing everything, and even Nightblood doesn't have enough power to change everything. The timelessness of the spiritual realm isn't as complete as we might think. Things can echo or connect backwards in time, but actions in the present cannot directly alter the past.
0 Calderis he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, Belzedar said: The timelessness of the spiritual realm is confined to the spiritual realm. Nightblood can make it so that your soul never existed, but not your mind and body. If there are beings that exist entirely in the spiritual realm, they will forget you, but beings in the cognitive and physical realms will not. And your actions on those realms will not be retroactively erased. Even if your investiture is destroyed completely, and were "erased" (which in my opinion can't actually happen, as investiture cannot be destroyed) there would still be a record in the Spiritwebs of other things that had a connection with yours. 4 minutes ago, Belzedar said: Changing the past just isn't possible in the cosmere. Nightblood's spiritual destruction should ripple backwards through time, but there are forces in place that prevent this. It may involve the web of spiritual Connections that binds all things: you can't change one thing without changing everything, and even Nightblood doesn't have enough power to change everything. More or less what I believe. The future is in a constant state of flux, with all probabilities existing, but the more likely, the more prominent and the easier to view. The present is a moment in which that flux is solidified in the written record of the past. The investiture is there for all of these things simultaneously, but the past is an immutable record of what has occurred, and the future is a constantly shifting mass of uncertainties.
0 leboralli Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, Oversleep said: Following from that, when Nightblood consumes Investiture, it does not erase it from history or anything. It just vaporizes. I have a question. If Nightblood consumes Investiture, a person who wield Nightblade can lose your abilities?
0 The One Who Connects he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, leboralli said: I have a question. If Nightblood consumes Investiture, a person who wield Nightblade can lose your abilities? Assuming I understand what you are asking: No. Having magical abilities is a coded part of your Spiritweb. It's not "Usable Investiture," so to speak. The fuel for those abilities is usable, for Nightblood. For example: Vasher can awaken both before, during, and after using Nightblood. Nightblood consumes the Breath he has, so awakening isn't in his best interests, but he can do it. Using Nightblood doesn't take someone's abilities from them.
0 Weltall Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, leboralli said: I have a question. If Nightblood consumes Investiture, a person who wield Nightblade can lose your abilities? On Nalthis, yes. It will consume Breath as the easiest form of Investiture to access and as it does so, you'll lose any benefit you were receiving from them and obviously can no longer use them for Awakening, so your range of options there decreases. And then you run out of Breath and Nightblood eats the Investiture that makes up your soul and you die. On other worlds, it wouldn't work quite the same way because the Investiture Nightblood would feed on differs. However, none of the worlds we know of have Investiture that stacks quite like Breath does, so while Nightblood could consume things like stored feruchemical charges (depriving you of those 'abilities') he won't actually consume your ability to use magic; that's hardwired into your spiritweb and the only way he can consume that is in the very last step when it's the last bit of Investiture you have to feed it. At which point consuming your ability to use any given magic system is academic since, well, you're dead.
0 BillLangdon he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Interesting side note on this, if you were an alomancer, would nightblood Burn up your metals? Brandon has said before I think that the metals aren’t the actual source of investiture but more a focus for drawing upon the power of preservation residing in the spirit realm, so does wielding nightblood while having the ability to focus that power by burning metals also give nightblood he ability to focus the power through the same method? I mean it does seem like wielding nightblood does *kind of* bond him to your soul.
0 Calderis he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, BillLangdon said: Interesting side note on this, if you were an alomancer, would nightblood Burn up your metals? Brandon has said before I think that the metals aren’t the actual source of investiture but more a focus for drawing upon the power of preservation residing in the spirit realm, so does wielding nightblood while having the ability to focus that power by burning metals also give nightblood he ability to focus the power through the same method? I mean it does seem like wielding nightblood does *kind of* bond him to your soul. You would have to be actively burning a metal, and having power pout into you, in order to feed Nightblood. If you had metal in your stomach, but weren't burning, Nightblood is going to go straight to eating your soul.
0 RShara she/her Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, BillLangdon said: Interesting side note on this, if you were an alomancer, would nightblood Burn up your metals? Brandon has said before I think that the metals aren’t the actual source of investiture but more a focus for drawing upon the power of preservation residing in the spirit realm, so does wielding nightblood while having the ability to focus that power by burning metals also give nightblood he ability to focus the power through the same method? I mean it does seem like wielding nightblood does *kind of* bond him to your soul. The metals act as a key, or catalyst, and when they run out, the investiture transfer ends. So you have to be actively burning in order to wield Nightblood, otherwise it will eat you.
0 BillLangdon he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 So in order to be an alomancer and wield nightblood consistently you not only have to worry about him eating you if you stop burning, but you basically automatically resign yourself to becoming a savant... sounds like a fun short story.
0 RShara she/her Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, BillLangdon said: So in order to be an alomancer and wield nightblood consistently you not only have to worry about him eating you if you stop burning, but you basically automatically resign yourself to becoming a savant... sounds like a fun short story. Eh, not necessarily. As long as you are careful. The investiture is being eaten by NB, rather than being used by you, so it might bypass most of your spiritweb, which would prevent the damage.
0 Calderis he/him Posted March 23, 2018 Posted March 23, 2018 Just to clarify. Quote Questioner If an Allomancer drew Nightblood, would it eat the metals first? Brandon Sanderson Only if they were burning it. Questioner At the time, otherwise it would go straight through and eat them? Brandon Sanderson Yeah it would just eat them. Yeah. If they were burning the metals, it would burn through the metal, and he would take the power instead of you gaining whatever ability you were trying to get from it. Questioner Who he be able to use the metal power or would he just eat it as...? Brandon Sanderson He would just take it as raw Investiture. source
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Kidpen he/him
If nightblood destroys things in all three realms, and the spiritual realm is all places and all times, shouldn’t Nightblood make it so it’s as if people never existed? I might just not understand how the spiritual realm works though. Thanks!
Edited by Kidpen14 answers to this question
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