BillLangdon

The Everstorm is new. It's mentioned several times near the end of WoR and the start of OB by several sources Yeah my bad. It’s actually a typo, I meant to write, “I *think the everstorm is new because...” but fair points made.

So for #1, I don’t think the everetorm is new because the Parshmen are slaves now. In desolation’s before, I don’t think the Parshendi were cast into slavery so much as they were in hiding like the parshendi of the shattered plains. Odium schemed a way to “activate” hordes of parshmen who were too dull to actively welcome a new form via the high storm, so he used his stormspren to subvert venli and Her sister into getting one large group to willingly take stormform, which allows the everstorm to force the rest to “awaken” as it were. A brilliant tactical move. Odium was able to possess men using the Thrill unmade. I think this has to do with the waiting period of having that unmade basically reside in Alethkar and Ja Keved regions for millennia. It’s influence on whole generations of people influenced their culture and essentially made the alethi the way they are, and made a much wider connection between The Thrill and the Souls of men in that region. Even then he needed to set the rift dominos. I don’t think he could have controlled Dalinar’s men because they didn’t have the exact buildup of hatred and resentment. sja Amat I can’t explain yet. why wait so long? I think the answer is this: he lost every desolation before. Honorable Men were just too resilient to beat. But with honor gone, all he needed was time, a resource he has all too much of. After all the time, men forgot how to have honor and how to stand united. By waiting milenia, he let humanity do half the job for him.

*stands corrected*

So in order to be an alomancer and wield nightblood consistently you not only have to worry about him eating you if you stop burning, but you basically automatically resign yourself to becoming a savant... sounds like a fun short story.

Interesting side note on this, if you were an alomancer, would nightblood Burn up your metals? Brandon has said before I think that the metals aren’t the actual source of investiture but more a focus for drawing upon the power of preservation residing in the spirit realm, so does wielding nightblood while having the ability to focus that power by burning metals also give nightblood he ability to focus the power through the same method? I mean it does seem like wielding nightblood does *kind of* bond him to your soul.

That idea I think has been posed in world, and that’s likely the opinion of scholars on Roshar, however the legend of wandersail puts a giant whirlpool on the other side of the planet surrounded by islands, so there’s an in world example of a possible physical origin. The fact remains that the other side of the planet is inaccessible by average sea travel because the storms are too dangerous. That doesn’t mean we won’t get someone going there in the future, there seems to be lots of potential to the idea of traveling great distances above the storms.

I would not say they are savants. The changing of appearance in this case seems more to do with “identity” of the cognitive shadow that is the fused. I would think that the voidlight they use may have something to do with the marbling of skin color, like how stormlight aligns the physical with spiritual identity.

I would point to one other example of cognitive shadows that somehow manifest their old body when they return, and that would be a Herald. Cosmerically it seems to be possible, and may be similar to being a returned, although I think a returned’s divine breath infused shadow is sort of stapled to their old body so I don’t think it’s exactly the same.

Can you remind me what physical changes we are referring to? Are they different than changes that would indicate a change in “Form”?

Here’s one theory: cats and other such animals have whiskers that are quite sensitive to disturbances in air pressure like wind or pressure waves. It’s possible that the evolutionary advantage comes from seafaring, and detecting winds and pressure systems easy enough to know when to doc your boat.

I personally do think that Maya is somehow waking up, perhaps with some heavy influence of the incredible power that Dalinar is manifesting, and perhaps because of Adolin’s pureness of heart, BUT..... My money is on him not becoming a Radiant. From a narrative perspective, I think it makes sense for Brandon to make a main character who is as involved with the radiants as Adolin is, simply remain human and non-radiant. His character has a really good arc going on right now. Everyone in his immediate circle is becoming Radiant, God-Like. He comes from a world where he was not only the most loved, but also the best, and now suddenly he is being left behind by people who otherwise would not rival him. But he takes it in stride and continues to do his best. He is the best literary example of unaided humanity being good enough.

I can’t help but think the word “Bond” in the passage is not referring to imprisonment. In Stormlight Archive the word “Bond” has always carried the connotation of a sort of symbiotic relationship between two souls. That’s enough for me to be fairly certain that the above passage means that a dawnshard is a weapon that would alow a person to Force a bond between any mortal who wields it and any voidspren regardless of any rules it may have.

So OathBringer introduces the idea of swallowing gemstones, thus allowing a spren to inhabit it and (sort of) invest the ingester of the stone. This raises a lot of questions. 1. Could anyone swallow a gemstone with a captive spren and gain a kind of spren bond (not a nahel bond) and thus access surges similar to how a fabrial does? 2. How important is intent? A gemheart in a listener is part of their physiology, they see it as their heart. But a gem sitting in someone’s stomach isn’t part of them or their soul, but does that act of swallowing it intentionally effect this? Does it create connection between the gem and the cognitive mind in some way? If you snuck a gem with a spren in it into someone’s food, would the spren be able to have any effect? 3. What would happen to a radiant who attempted this? Would there be any sort of compounding of their nahel bond and the gemstone spren? Or would their nahel bond reject the experiment? 4. Is swallowing the gemstone the only way to achieve this? What about surgical implantation? The only real parallel we have for this is hemalurgy: a. spikes of a particular metal, infused with a particular attribute from a previously spiked person, placed in a particular bind point, create a particular effect, sometimes changing physiological makeup or granting a spiritual avenue for a given system of investiture. b. A Gemstone of a particular type/color, inhabited by a spren of a particular spren species, inserted into the body in a particular place (stomach/heart), create a particular effect? Sometimes changing physiological makeup (listener forms/whatever happened to Amaram) or granting a spiritual avenue for a given system of investiture (“forms of power” like storm form) In this way it seems a lot more similar to Hemalurgy that I originally thought. Thoughts on this?

I wouldn’t say we have seen Hoid using feruchemy (forgive me if a WoB confirms that he does). He does seem to have access to Fortune, an attribute that some feruchemists can store in a metalmind, but that isn’t to say that Fortune itself is a power exclusive to feruchemy. As we know all forms of investiture are all essentially different manifestations of the same system. Hoid has a lot of powers and does seem interested in collecting as many flavors of investiture as he can, but at present i’d Say his access to fortune is related to an as yet unseen system.

I think that Hesina’s family isn’t originally vorin because of her apparent dismissal of gender taboos regarding kaladin’s education.

I don’t like cookies. They leave a weird metalic taste in my mouth.

I have some problems with this. skaze->Skai = Dominion. (Totally on board with this) Skaze > Shu-Dereth->Jaddeth (here’s where you lose me.) I know that the skaze are heavily involved in Fjordell culture and politics, which are dominated by Shu Dereth during the events of Elantris, but it’s important to note that the skaze most likely pre date shu dereth, probably by a hefty sum of years too. I would assume this because relatively speaking, shu Keseg is sort of new to Sel, while devotion and dominion probably had religions patterned after them for milenia before that. The Skaze, more likely saw Shu Dereth as an opportunity to increase the dominion of one empire, and threw in with it to advance their goals, though they probably don’t believe it themselves, similar to how Hrathen pushes his “Elantrians are Svrakis” argument on the arelenes, even though he doesn’t believe it’s true. It’s a tool to achieve a goal. Jaddeth > worship = devotion (also a problem here) in Shu Dereth people do not serve Jaddeth. Only Wyrn does. People serve a priest and priests serve higher priests and so on up the chain. It’s a key separation from devotion because people serve mostly out of fear or ambition, not out of devotion to an ideal or a God.

Sorry! New to the forum. #newbfail

If Wyrn follows Doninion, and the thought he could use a pagan god as a figurehead to gain followers, i’d Say that falls pretty in line with Dominion’s intent. Aso, @Weltall, I’m not sure you and I have the same opinion on the nature of Jaddeth. You seem to think that I was claiming Jaddeth is an actual God, or a splinter of Odium. I am not saying that, I don’t actually think Jaddeth is anything more than an old legend that’s been twisted by Derethi leadership to provide followers with a scary figurehead. I just postulate that said scary legend, is in fact inspired by times when Odium actually was on Sel, and the story has been passed down until it was used as a tool for Dominion followers, like Wyrn and the Skaze.

Definitely not being stupid. They are similar, but different. So with drawing Aons, Elantrians are able to sort of draw a hole into the cognitive realm, and alow the power there (Referred to as the Dor) to seep through that hole in a particular shape, detirmined by which Aon is being drawn. With Soul stamping, one is instead pushing the stamp through the boundary of the physical realm, into the cognitive, and pushing the Dor into the spiritual web of the stamped object, with the shape of the stamp. So, similar, but different too.

@ElephantEarwax I would not say that unless the need was dire, or if I had to overwhelm a Real bad dude long enough to stop his plots..... @Archerfavorite book is probably Oath Bringer right now, but considering how recent it is it’s hard to tell how much novelty bias to put on that.

It’s been stated that prior to arriving in the Rosharan System, Odium paid a visit to Sel to check out the scenery, kill a couple of Gods, usual touristy stuff. By what I can gather, this happened quite some time before the Reod, and predates Shu-Keseg, the parent religion of Shu- Dereth, leaving a lot of time in the aftermath for the events of that interaction to fall into legend and myth. Brandon has also said that if you looked hard enough you could find the influence of Odium on Sel still. During the events of Elantris, it is said that Jadeth is an old pagan God who cared for the stones, but Shu-Dereth thrust him into their mythology when it split from Shu-Keseg proper. Considering the connection between Odium and Stone in stormlight archive, this is at least plausible. This isn’t to say that Shu-Dereth worships Odium directly, or that Dakhor Magic is of his power, as their religion and culture obviously fit better with Dominion. However, over time images of deities can shift and blend. Add to this, that when Hrathen meets Dilaf, he is careful to note his PASSION and basically states that if one can use that passion to achieve the desired Dominion, then it would be a tool he would use carefully but willingly. Dilaf’s motives in the story are driven much more by hatred than domination, and so it makes me wonder about how deep the influence of Odium goes in Fjordell culture.

Hey fellow Cosmere adicts. Name’s Bill. I’ve been reading for just over a year now and I’ve pretty much consumed all cosmere related content that’s been officially released (mostly). Hugely interested in Realmatic Theory and the overarching cosmere plotlines that surpass the individual stories (which I also love). Currently re reading Elantris, after finishing Oath Bringer because I’m fascinated with the similarities and differences between the two magic systems, and the effects Shards have had on different worlds and their cultures. Thanks all for the great forums and theories, as they’ve been a welcome companion on my reading over the last year. Cheers!