Adolin's Actions

[lordofsoup]

I don't have an issue with the killing, but throwing away the Shardbalde was a mistake. If someone finds that it will be obvious that it was an assassination. If he took the blade but never summoned it, no one would ever know what happened. That being said mind set in which he did it is probably not the best for his log term health, especially there is a thing called Odium hanging around.

[garlick]

I dont think he could carry the blade around for a week and not be seen in order to be able to bond it, yes Dalinar did it while claiming to be sick but I'm sure some people knew what he was doing. I don't think its out of character for Andolin to be the one to do it. Hes wanted his blood since the beginning of TWoK. Hes tried other ways to get to him like in the dueling arena. His father did alot to keep him in check throughout both books. He's just finished a battle against VOIDBRINGER, his beloved horse is dead, his father, bother,  fiance and biggest rival (kaladin) come out as radiants.  Then he finds himself alone with Sadeas listening to him plan out how to take down his father with a smile on his face. The voidbringers have returned, the world is in danger and here sits a man that still wants to divide people and take the throne for himself. So Andolin comes to the conclusion that Sadeas must die. I don't think he will feel remorse it's was like putting down a rabid dog, it was just something that had to be done. He got rid of the shardblade because a High prince was just killed, there will be an investigation possibly a search for the blade. There is also WoB that some orders would be very happy with how he handled the situation. It could possible open a reason for darkness to come after him after he bonds a spren.

Edited March 12, 2014 by garlick

[marianmi]

Not only does it clash against Adolin's character, it's also brash and impulsive. 

 

Adolin, impulsive?? Noooo, what a shocker!

[Chrono she/her]

Haha, what I meant to say is that it's impulsive, even for our crazy Adolin. Even though he usually runs into the fray screaming at the top of his lungs, he usually doesn't do something like this. He's been holding himself back from killing Sadeas for two books now. Suddenly breaking at a time of relatively little stress is unexpected. Impulsive, even.

[Velnica]

At the moment he thinks he's safe, but Adolin is circled by people whose virtues are Honor, Truths, and Doing the Right Thing. What if Renarin can see through Adolin's lies? That would put a giant magical wrench in their sibling relationship.

 

EDIT: Also I am so glad Sadeas is dead. He was there to provide local conflict to the story, but now that we're moving past petty Kingdom rivalries he wasn't needed anymore. Bless Adolin for doing what the entire fanbase wanted to do to Sadeas.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Velnica

[Aleksiel]

Adolin was a bit predictable before he murdered Sadeas, so I think it actually improved his character. He wanted a duel for a long and Sadeas denied that several times, so a knife to the eye socket it was. What was even more interesting to me was the fact Adolin stopped filling the Thrill at all in WoR and I wonder if this is foreshadowing him as a surgebinder or something else.

[Bobobagins]

I can't help but feel that Sadias's scene was a set up.

Source:coppermind

(The Shard's intent, Odium, means two things: the feeling of strong hatred, and that which provokes hatred from others.)

It seems to me that Sadias's role in that scene was the provoker.

Adolins role was that of the Hater strong volilent mindless violence fuled by hate....

While I'm happy Sadias is dead this seems a setup for Adolin to be the champion of Odium in Roshar. If you think about it it makes sense in way turning a brother in arms against Kaladin it's happened a few times already if you think about it Sadias was Dalinar's friend before the king's death after though things got twisted seems to be a running theme.

Edited March 12, 2014 by arcmourn

[+eveorjoy she/her]

If Adolin were a real person, I would be very disappointed in his actions and feel sorry for him that he chose that path.

 

But he is a character in a book, so, I like it. I'm glad the bore, Sadeas, is gone and I'm curious to see what direction this takes Adolin. I hope this breaks his soul enough for him to become a surgebinder. Wouldn't it be neat if he could revive that sword of his?

 

And yes that would make most of the Kholins into surgebinders. Well Roshar is becoming a world where being a shardbearer ain't going to cut it anymore. A world with the Everstorm could use a family of surgebinders.

[Galladon he/him]

What a glorious moment this was, there I thought oh boy another book with this slimy e... but no wait what .. did he really just do this .... jaaaaayy.

With Sades still in the game there would have been too many factions moving against Dalinar, soo Adolin decided that he would be the much needed fist. The fact that he hid this is all well and right, since when you try to convince others to be more honorable, knifing them in the eye isn't the way to go.

 

I think it couln't have happend any better way (ok maybe they could have called the KARKEN oh no wait a slimy thing with 16 legs).

[Kessler]

I think, morality aside, from practical point of view, killing Sadeas isn't that certain to be a positive thing. He's more trouble dead, then alive.

 

I think WoR reveals Sadeas to be a shadow of the man who tried to save his King, when Assassin in White came.  For all his words about Dalinar losing his mind and strength, I'd say it was more of Sadeas projecting what he himself been feeling. Sadeas is constantly lying to himself about his motives. He's shown himself to be a coward - sure he used to be a great swordsman, but now he just butchers foes, who can't harm him. His army is ill-disciplined and I'd say half of it would flee at the sight of voidbringers. He's good at manipulation and treachery, but I doubt they'd be very effective now. 

 

On other hand Dalinar's position has grown very strong. Three High Princes now fully support him as High Prince of War, his words were proven right, he controls quarter of all shards in Alethkar, captured Uruthiru and he's got FOUR RADIANTS on his side. Sadeas can puff about ''taking it all'' from Dalinar, but just operating the Oathgate needs a Radiant. Of which only Shallan doesn't have personal reasons to hate him. You can't control Uruthiru without Radiants. His chances of killing Dalinar went to minuscule, now that Dalinar has stormlight, and High Princes who would chose to believe his lies (which are obvious, but some Alethi High Princes would just stick their head into the sand, no doubt) could only be cowards or idiots.

 

So Sadeas alive would be a nuisance, which Dalinar would be able to crush.  

 

Sadeas dead on other hand would give credit to the lies against Dalinar. If people suspect that Dalinar had him killed, then maybe the ridiculous conspiracy theories he's been spouting could be true. Somebody will step into Sadea's place, he must have an heir (who could be a puppet for Sadea's wife, who'll actually rule). Dead Sadeas could be used to persuade the remaining High Princes, that they must weaken Dalinar to protect themselves and that his talk of honor is subterfuge and he's not above killing his rivals.

[The Count he/him]

On the other hand though, assassination is pretty ok in the Aethi court.

 

Even if The other highprinces think Dalinar was responsible for Sadeas' death, they will most likely think that he had him assassinated.

 

Since it cannot be proven and Dalinar will, of course, deny all knowledge the other highprinces will most likely just let it slide.

 

Politically, I do not think that Daliar is in much trouble from this.

 

I think Ialai's spy and assassin network will be the much bigger danger for him.

[gofunkiertti]

I think it's important to note that every radiant had a very different moral code and there have been hints that many didn't get along. (At the very least the spren don't) What to Kaladin would have been despicable to Jasnah is philosophy in action. Her spren helped her commit numerous murders and did not leave her.

 

Pattern seems to appreciate the ability to lie and deceive as the most important traits a Lightweaver can have. Adolin could easily be part of an order that believes in a moral code that believes what he did was absolutely right.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

I think it's important to note that every radiant had a very different moral code and there have been hints that many didn't get along. (At the very least the spren don't) What to Kaladin would have been despicable to Jasnah is philosophy in action. Her spren helped her commit numerous murders and did not leave her.

 

Pattern seems to appreciate the ability to lie and deceive as the most important traits a Lightweaver can have. Adolin could easily be part of an order that believes in a moral code that believes what he did was absolutely right.

 

Brandon has said as much.

[ragingdomer]

Was it really even murder?  I mean they were essentially in open war against each other (as much as you can be in proper Alethi culture).  Sadeas may not have been a regular open combatant, but he threatens to kill and/or destroy Adolin's whole family.  That, combined with the treason already committed is enough reason to attack the man.  They don't need to be fully armored on a field of battle to make it morally acceptable. 

 

Make no mistake, Sadeas was trying to kill the Kholin's, just in a very drawn out process.  Adolin just did it faster.

[+eveorjoy she/her]

Was it really even murder?  I mean they were essentially in open war against each other (as much as you can be in proper Alethi culture).  Sadeas may not have been a regular open combatant, but he threatens to kill and/or destroy Adolin's whole family.  That, combined with the treason already committed is enough reason to attack the man.  They don't need to be fully armored on a field of battle to make it morally acceptable. 

 

Make no mistake, Sadeas was trying to kill the Kholin's, just in a very drawn out process.  Adolin just did it faster.

 

It was murder and Adolin knew as much after he did it. However I don't think it was any worse than what Shallan did. In fact Shallan's was premeditated therefore she committed a higher crime than Adolin legally. Adolin committed a crime of passion. I think it would be considered 2nd degree murder. There were other ways Sadeas could have been dealt with. 

 

So Adolin is no Windrunner. There are ten other orders and this act might be enough to break him and allow investiture.

[Aleksiel]

 

 

Was it really even murder? 

 

I believe killing someone who isn't an immediate threat to your life or the lives of those around you, is considered murder. Dalinar and Sadeas were not at war in the sense of being legitimate to kill each other. 

 

 

 

Make no mistake, Sadeas was trying to kill the Kholin's, just in a very drawn out process.  Adolin just did it faster.

 

And even cheaper than Jasnah! So, good for him imo. It was right, but not lawful.

I wonder what the consequences would be. Will Amaram become Highprince or is Dalinar's prove enough to have him out of the way? Because if Amaram gets to this much power, now that's a whole new level of trouble for the Kholin family. 

[Numb]

I thought Amaram fled after he was confronted so he didn't go with all the troops to the magical land in the sky(I can't remember the name)

[+eveorjoy she/her]

I wonder what the consequences would be. Will Amaram become Highprince or is Dalinar's prove enough to have him out of the way? Because if Amaram gets to this much power, now that's a whole new level of trouble for the Kholin family. 

.

 

Amaram stated before Dalinar, Bridge Four, High Prince Roion, and his attendances, along with any other soldiers in the area that he did kill his own men and enslaved Kaladin to cover it up. I don't think Amaram has a legal leg to stand on if he tries to claim that princedom. In fact Kaladin is lighteyed now. Elhokar could just give the princedom to him. No, I don't think he would actually do that,  but it would be ironic.

 

Regardless, I doubt Amaram will get the princedom. Not that it will matter. With the world falling apart the old social structures will only matter as much as they can help the survivors. Amaram seems more interested in restoring the church to that position in the coming chaos.

 

 

Actually, I hope Amaram gets more powerful. I want him to get an honorblade. That way Kaladin can finally have a duel with him that would be fair, legal, and oh so satisfying.  

 

I thought Amaram fled after he was confronted so he didn't go with all the troops to the magical land in the sky(I can't remember the name)

 

Amaram stated in a letter he wrote in his last scene that he was going to Urithiru.

 

Back to the topic at hand.

Edited March 12, 2014 by eveorjoy

[marianmi]

* Sadeas's death allows the King to name another Highprice (I can't remember Sadeas having an heir), who can get the soldiers in line. Your army is as strong as your weakest link. Just for this, there is a huge benefit from his death.

* I hope Renarin can "see the truth" () and comfort Adolin, otherwise he will start being hesitant

* WoB is that Adolin's actions would have been in line with, for example, dustbringers. Unfortunately, because of this WoB, I don't think the will become a dustbringer (unfortunately). But I do hope I mean, people in Bridge 4 start infusing, clearly there will be a "surge in surgebinders" ()

[Bobobagins]

Hmmmmmm I've stated this before in previous posts but Sadias was to important a character to just kill of without any major payoff later on.

From what I've inferred from the way the scene is written as well as Adolins actions throughout both wok and wor Adolins been building up steadily to this. Like Shallan says he's mentaly direct he is also impulsive and a sore loser this is best shown when he gets outsmarted with the duelling conditions. He could have forfeited before the duel however he rationlises his actions without regard to everyone else this comes across as just plain selfish and let's face it Adolin is a selfish person. He focuses and what he thinks and wants most of the time and the only other person who he listens to is his father and even then only sometimes.

Then there's his white knight complex it seems he's always trying to play the hero however reality keeps slapping him in the face. While this maybe in a way and admirable trait in some cases in others it tends to blow up on him more often then not. As someone else stated before the death of his white station is a great cinematic representation of Adolin's fall and is I belive a for shadowing of not just his actions with Sadias but also with future events in mind.

Now with that it'll said I'd like to point out that while people keep stating Adolin didn't kill out of emotion that just isnt the case.

(The look of utter shock on Sadias's face amused a part of Adolin the very small part that wasn't completely and irrevocably enraged.) quote Page 1068.

Yea Adolin was totally emotionless wasn't he..... (Sarcasm included) okay I can see why people might wish Adolin to be a white knight character he certainly looks the part however since when has and hero in the cosmere looked the part.... Seriously people have you learned nothing looks really don't matter I mean look at Mr T he's a kind old man that bleeds people to death sheeesh.

Id also like to point out that through a good chunck of this book Adolins a complete jackass to Kaladin not just because hes a guard but because heaven forbid he dared to play the hero role let's face it Adolins very territorial and whilst I realise he does in the end accept Kaladin it takes another life saving event to do so.

When all is said and done though I feel it's safe to say Adolins is coming to grips with he fact he's being relegated to the role of a normal person... And then he flys into a blinding rage and kills Sadias... Yeah I know Sadias threatened his family but like he hasn't done that before I mean you do ownestly think Adolins actions where souly motivated by Sadias do you. Seems to me Adolins not to happy with his relizqtions about his new lot in life and like many people we have seen has no problems leting out his emotions on whoevers closest AT THAT TIME (pointing to Sadias) good old Sadias the punching bag lol. As many have said in other posts before this it is a FORESHADOWING...

I'm just gonna call it what it is... DARK KNIGHT RISING. And no he isn't batman.

[marianmi]

What I am afraid is for Adolin to be like Gawyn... starts off decent, he then gets dark, then he redeems himself kind of, then he dies in a very stupid way.

[acgrnc22]

I have one problem with it, and only one. He covered up his involvement in it, that gives an opening for a certain nasty Shard to potentially play on. But its still too early to tell, if he comes clean to the people who matter it might not be a problem, but it seems the sort of thing which could fester and become a problem if he does not act like it was a Just action.

 

By hiding from his actions he is basically saying it was wrong for him to do it.

Yes, he "covered" it up, but he forgot to wipe away the chalk mark on the wall indicating that he had been there searching the tower. I'm interested to see where that goes.

 

I agree that this could definitely fester and potentially destroy Adolin. Reading about the lies that Sadeas was going to spread about Dalinar made my blood boil, but I think that Adolin's actions were too rash. I'm not sure if killing the man is going to stop the force that he was, mainly because his wife is so involved as well. There are worse men than Sadeas.

[Aether he/him]

Yes, he "covered" it up, but he forgot to wipe away the chalk mark on the wall indicating that he had been there searching the tower. I'm interested to see where that goes.

No, he didn't forget that:

     After that, he had the presence of mind to cut off his cuffs, remove his chalk mark on the wall by scraping it free with his own Blade, and walk away as far as possible before finding one of his scouting parties and pretending he'd been in that area all along.

- From the Words of Radiance, chapter 89: "The Four", page 1069 of the Tor Hardcover (my bold and italicised lettering)

Edited April 28, 2014 by Aether

[MistLord he/him]

Well, it absolutely was murder. That said, Sadeas needed to be stopped and legal methods of removing him from power had been pretty thoroughly attempted and exhausted.

accidentally down voted.. Could someone help out?

[hoser he/him]

accidentally down voted.. Could someone help out?

done