So how many secret societies do we have at this point?

[Honor]

I think Jasnah had connected or strongly suspected Elhokar's wife was part of something that was no good given the state of things in Kholinar.  Alternatively she could be out of touch like Elhokar....but I don't know why Jasnah would assassinate her for that.  It seems like the clearest group for her to belong to is the Diagram (her actions seem to weaken Alethkar from within)...but I'm thinking that Mr. T would have created the Diagram after Jasnah thinks about having her assassinated.  Does it ever say where Elhokar's wife is from...surely she would have been from an important family somewhere? 

[Delightful]

 

 

Oldbloods: Who are these guys??  Can someone ask Brandon? They have a blue tatoo on their cheek.

IIRC, the Oldbloods were referred to (Dalinar POV) as something like 'the original rulers of the land'. - One of Dalinar's very important officers was an Oldblood. I think there's even less info on them than there is on Tarah.

[Aoibheann]

from tWoK page 370, kindle edition:

Teleb was a straight-backed man with light green eyes.  He kept his long hair in a braid and had a blue tattoo on his cheek, marking him as an Oldblood.  At the side of the room, his wife, Kalami, sat behind a long-legged desk on a high stool.  She wore her dark hair with only two small side braids pinned up, the rest hanging down the back of her violet dress to brush the top of the stool.  She was a historian of note, and had requested permission to record meetings like this one; she planned to scribe a history of the war.

Teleb is the officer who recommends looking into a combination of man carried bridges and the siege bridges. He is still alive at the end of tWoK. During WoR Dalinar/Adolin give him Shards. During the final battle of WoR Teleb is slain, his shardblade is recovered by Captain Khal.  

 

Just last week I found the quote discussing Oldbloods being descended from the last rulers of a united Alethkar... but I can't find it today. Argh!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[WitSpren]

Second list:

Non-secret Societies and secret people not in societies:

Hoid: Stop Odium by any means necessary

Vasher: Possibly to leave somewhere he doesn't have to use Breaths

Oldbloods: Who are these guys??  Can someone ask Brandon? They have a blue tatoo on their cheek.

Stormwardens: Secretive and have created their own script seen in use by Amaram. Might be connected to the Sons of Honor. 

 

Anyone else?

What about that one that Mraize mentioned when Shallan was hiding in the bolder.    "This creature in Tukar, however is different.   I'm not convinced he is human.    If he is, he's certainly not of the local species...."

 

What is mraize   and what/who is "the creature"?

[Cheese Ninja]

Mraize seems to collect stuff from other Cosmere worlds, and is quite possibly a Worldhopper himself.  Which makes him being "a student" of Iyatil even more interesting. 

 

WoK Ch. 54 Gibletish

Quote

“The city’s pattern is central to the Emuli religion,” the ardent said. “They claim it is their ancestral homeland, a gift to them from the Heralds. And the Tukari are led by that god-priest of theirs, Tezim. So the conflict is religious in nature.”

Mraize was probably talking about Tezim. There's nothing else in either book about Tukar or Tezim.  He seems be implying that Tezim is a Worldhopper as well with the "not of a local species" comment.

 

Is anyone else still uncertain about whether or not Helaran was a Ghostblood or a Skybreaker?  Amaram assumed Ghostblood, Shallan assumed Ghostblood, Mraize said he "sought the Skybreakers", Taravangian wondered if Helaran had given Shallan some sort of training.  Could he have had dual membership?  Just to be clear, I don't think Helaran himself was a Surgebinder, since he was clearly using a dead spren Shardblade, which would be extremely unpleasant for anyone with a Nahel bond.

 

I think Gavilar might have even had triple or quadruple membership. (Contact with Taravangian pre-Nightwatcher and Diagram, with makes him the ultimate hipster Diagrammist, confided in Amaram to some degree, so some association with the Sons of Honor, had at least 3 different Heralds visiting his palace shortly before his assassination (Ash, Nalan(Head of the Skybreakers), and Nalan's friend), suspected either Thaidakar(Ghostbloods) or Restares(Sons of Honor) would want to kill him.)

[twelfthrootoftwo]

I think Jasnah had connected or strongly suspected Elhokar's wife was part of something that was no good given the state of things in Kholinar.  Alternatively she could be out of touch like Elhokar....but I don't know why Jasnah would assassinate her for that. 

Aesudan's probably not with the Diagram, as Mr T hadn't visited the Nightwatcher at that point, so the Diagram as we know it couldn't exist.

The Ghostbloods think Bordin stayed in Alethkar to keep an eye on her, for unstated reasons. Either they're aware of whatever plot she's part of, or she's with them.

[shawnhargreaves]

Second list:

Hoid: Stop Odium by any means necessary

 

I don't buy that this is Hoid's goal.  We've seen him collecting various invested artifacts from different worlds, and sometimes giving advice to people who are involved in the big events on those worlds, but this advice does not seem to be his main goal.   His comments in WoR about how he would let Roshar burn if that could help his goal seemed to me as a warning that, while he probably would like to see Odium defeated, this isn't his main purpose.

[Kasimir]

I'm also having a hard time believing that the ostensible goals of the Skybreakers (the elimination of Surgebinders) is all there is to them. Although I suspect it ties to the assumption of how the Oathpact works--it just seems strange for Nalan to be just eliminating Surgebinders when he has to know that Taln has held out for extraordinarily long, but the moment Taln breaks, the Desolation comes back and Nalan's efforts seem to be wasted--at least when we don't have the bigger picture.

[Aoibheann]

from tWoK page 370, kindle edition:

Teleb is the officer who recommends looking into a combination of man carried bridges and the siege bridges. He is still alive at the end of tWoK. During WoR Dalinar/Adolin give him Shards. During the final battle of WoR Teleb is slain, his shardblade is recovered by Captain Khal.  

 

Just last week I found the quote discussing Oldbloods being descended from the last rulers of a united Alethkar... but I can't find it today. Argh!

 - Found it! WoR page 595, kindle edition.

Teleb - wearing the Plate that Adolin had won from his duel with Eranniv - watched from the side of the room, Shardhammer on his back, faceplate up.  His people had once ruled Alethkar.  What did he think of all this? The man usually kept his opinions to himself.

 

 

 

Re: Skybreakers.  I keep coming back to Shallan's comment about Heleran (WoR, page 423, kindle ed):

A sense of rightness that she could not describe, but which she drew from her brother Helaran, the best person she'd ever known.

 

 

Shallan thinks this about her brother who joined the Skybreakers.  I can't imagine him being involved in an organization only aimed at killing surgebinders.  I think the Skybreakers are trying to do good in the world, (as are most of the secret organizations) they are just misguided.  They no longer have the "checks a spren requires." 

[Dark Knight]

Could some of the leaders of these organisations be heralds like darkness/nalan? The KR orders didn't always get along and after the breaking of the oath pact these differences could have been exacerbated. For example Thaidakar is hinted as being the leader or highest ranked ghost blood so far. Could he also be a herald? All the Heralds couldn't have just disappeared. That would explain the longevity and the determination of theses organisations and also their inability to work together.

Also, 1 of Mr T's helpers Abrogtai or something might be important as he admits he didn't want Szeth to see her. They seem to be the only group that is keeping their society a "secret" as everyone else seems to know each other.

[Iarwainiel I]

I've always had a feeling that Helaran was part of the 17th Shard group. I have no particular evidence for this - it just kept occurring to me when I was reading tWoK. Now that we know there are so many other groups, maybe it's not the best fit, but then again ... it just feels like that could have been his alignment, to me.

Also, on my 2nd reading of WoR, some of the flashbacks gave me the impression that both of Shallan's parents were Ghostbloods, or that her father was at least a sympathizer. But when it turned out that his own little girl was a Surgebinder, he turned against the society to protect her from his wife/her mother.