[OB] What you wished you’d seen

[The Thinking Herald he/him]

So, I was thinking about Oathbringer, and it’s flaws, and one I just returned to was that it wasn’t long enough. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s pretty heavy as a novel. What I’m talking about is that there were other plot elements that could have been fleshed out for a far more well paced and “realistic”, I suppose, experience.

So, this thread is for discussion of plot points that you feel could have been picked up, used, or generated in order to make Oathbringer a more well-rounded novel.

I’ll start off with one. I feel, personally, one of the threads that could have been explored would be Amaram’s turn to the dark side. As stated in another thread (of which name I have forgot), there could have been exploration of how he came to side with Odium. Instead of having merely a verbal spare with Jasnah, there could have been other scenes showing him realising that Honor is truly dead, realising the sham of Vorinism, but refusing to accept the facts, until Odium appears and does mental manipulation. Such manipulation could include offers of vengeance on Dalinar, proof that since Honor is dead, the default god on Roshar is Odium, etc.

Discuss.

[LH1407]

Wit and Jasnah's trip together. Although I think he didn't show that because it would give us too much information that he wants to reveal later on.

[Bort he/him]

The one I really wanted to see was the Szeth/Dalinar conversation.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I 100% agree about Amaram. I think that would have added incredibly much to the book. 

[Angsos]

He probably didn't include more Amaram because we already know his character. After all, rather than ask Kaladin for the shards, he just killed everyone except him and took them.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I think Renarin and Jasnah need to have a long and enlightening talk and there wasn't enough room in the book for it. You can really tell Brandon was desperately trying to finish the book without making it too much longer.

I feel like there needs to be a novella to tie up all the loose ends Brandon didn't have time to tie up in the book itself.

[Carla Bridge Four]

The wedding!!! (Shallan and Adolin)

[IronBars he/him]

What i wish i seen? That is a hard question, because i found OB to have many shortcomings, but if i had to pick one thing id guess id go for consequences to Adolin killing Sadeas.

Both internally with Adolin himself and externally with his family/Shallan/Kaladin/Alethi coalition etc, how that played out was a pretty disappointing aspect to OB.

I realise there is more volumes in the SA, where this could be done, but given there is a 1 year time skip between OB and the next installment, i don't see how that could be picked up in future where it actually made sense and had a satisfactory conclusion.

[Guest Procrastinationspren]

More Elhokar love. I mean, after his death. I get that they didn't have much time for that, but I felt like it was a really shocking moment and it was very emotional, but the characters didn't give it enough attention.

[MistbornAlpaca he/him]

I totally agree with all of these! I would also have like to see the Sleepless, which were notably absent  There were a few hints, but they never showed up onscreen. 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Chat between Kaladin and Szeth after the Battle of Thaylen. Szeth killed several members of Bridge 4, and Kaladin killed Szeth. They definetely should clear the air or reach a civil agreement if they are going to be on the same side.

What did Ash and Taln say/do after they woke up from the shock of Jezrien's death under Jasnah's care?

[maxal she/her]

More Adolin viewpoints to make his story arc fuller and to give it the depth is lacks. His character needs to see consequences for murdering Sadeas: by writing none which were obvious, Brandon did, IMHO, dropped the ball.

Adolin's viewpoints in Kholinar.

A better arc for Amaram.

The wedding.

Jasnah/Navani's reunion.

Navani/Gavinor's reunion.

[Prelude]

Jasnah accepting the role of queen. I really just want more of her as Shallan became increasingly frustrating to read. 

[recneps he/him]

Shallan dying

[ghajan monk]

To start off I would be happy if Brandon wrote a  1000 page collection of short stories set on Roshar including the Jasnah novella, as well as a 200 page epilogue to Oathbringer that includes interactions between the Lopen and Nightblood. Perhaps we could see Elhokar as a young boy filled with hopes and dreams playing with his father.

Edited March 4, 2018 by ghajan monk

[StormingTexan he/him]

Agree with everything stated above. Some of these things can be addressed in future books but others like Amaram are pretty much dead (in multiple ways). Aesudan is another character I thought had an underwhelming role to play until meeting her demise. Adolin killing Sadeas certainly can be brought back up but I feel like all the tension has been lost.  

The biggest thing that I wish was shown more is a conversation between Dalinar, Szeth and Kaladin after the battle. With what was on screen it feels unbelievable to me that Szeth would be just welcomed into the fold and then appointed Dalinar's bodyguard. Some dialog could have helped a lot here. 

[Strifelover]

38 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

The biggest thing that I wish was shown more is a conversation between Dalinar, Szeth and Kaladin after the battle. With what was on screen it feels unbelievable to me that Szeth would be just welcomed into the fold and then appointed Dalinar's bodyguard. Some dialog could have helped a lot here. 

Definitely agree with this. Accepting Szeth has joined their side is a stretch, but appointing him to be Dalinar's bodyguard just makes no sense. He spent the first two books trying to kill Dalinar when he wasn't busy assassinating other world leaders. The only reason he stopped was because Kaladin seemingly killed him, and nothing happened in between that and Szeth joining up (from Dalinar & Co's perspective) to think anything has changed. 

[Blazenella he/him]

I wanted more Vasher Zahel. I especially wanted to see his reaction to Szeth walking into Urithiru with Nightblood. I want that interaction really badly.

[hypatia she/her]

With Szeth I start to complain when there won't be missing scenes in his book, same with Jasnah, Ash and Taln.

My greatest problem was the aftermath of Kholinar - not so much Elhokar but Gavinor, not so much everyone but Navani.

Shortly after Gavinor was back, all grandmothers I had known came into memory - every one of them you would have to physically restrain to hinder them to do something "stupid" like going to save the only grandson and showing the Fused the wrath of a grandmother.

But Navani - all Dalinar and teaching to read and write and whatever.

It was so distracting for me I developed a aversion against her - what I don't believe was the intention.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

49 minutes ago, hypatia said:

Shortly after Gavinor was back, all grandmothers I had known came into memory - every one of them you would have to physically restrain to hinder them to do something "stupid" like going to save the only grandson and showing the Fused the wrath of a grandmother.

But Navani - all Dalinar and teaching to read and write and whatever.

It was so distracting for me I developed a aversion against her - what I don't believe was the intention.

Following that line, most mothers would have been shattered to lose a son, yet we saw no reaction to Navani losing Elhokar.

The only thing that comes to mind is that highborns probably gave the children to the care of nanies and may have a more distant relaitonship with their children than we are used to, at least while they are younger. 

[hypatia she/her]

@WhiteLeeopard

Rationally I'm aware, emotionally I don't care.

Even so - Gavinor is the only grandson and so the only one to carry on the Kholinline of herself and her late husband, the king.

Jasnah  - perhaps she will get a child, but at the moment Gavinor is the dynastic future.

As royalty she should have cared.

One little thing - burning prayers for her son in the background, a little glyph for her grandson - it doesn't have to be something so grant as for Dalinar -  would have shown her personality as a feeling person, not as a royality.

Edited March 5, 2018 by hypatia
Ranting

[StormingTexan he/him]

46 minutes ago, hypatia said:

Rationally I'm aware, emotionally I don't care.

Agreed. There are a lot of interpersonal conversations missing. It is ok that some of this should be assumed to take place offscreen but adding it in make the characters feel a lot more real and believable. I would have also expected an emotional conversation between Jasnah and Navani when she returned from the dead.  It is not just one character too there is little between Dalinar and his sons that was not a flashback. It is like we need a novella showing the various POV of the Kholins similar to the Bridge 4 POV chapters. 

[hypatia she/her]

Like I wrote above - one little gesture would have been enough, Navani described as a little bit paler, quieter, but there is more.

I would have prefered her being absent and not at the same time purring around Dalinar and making the wedding planer for Shallan and Adolin.

It's not only what she didn't do, but how she was acting instead.

Man, even Shallan's brothers seems to be more important for her....

Edited March 5, 2018 by hypatia