[OB] How did Kaladin call those windspren on Notum's ship?

[The Night Watcher]

When they're on the honorspren ship, Kaladin attracts some windspren. He does this by...thinking really hard? Anyone understand this...?

[The One Who Connects]

7 minutes ago, The Night Watcher said:

He does this by...thinking really hard? Anyone understand this...?

Somebody who's actually read the scene will probably have found some minor detail that explains everything, but Spren that show up in the Physical Realm(fear, glory, etc..) are drawn to the emotion in question.

Quote

Mandi
In [Words of Radiance] Shallan notes that spren don't appear around dense groups of people, even if emotions are high. Why is that?

Brandon Sanderson
You'll find out more eventually. There are several reasons, but imagine how a creature attracted to a specific color would respond if you dumped every color together in a big mess.

Does whatever he was thinking of relate to wind in some way? If so, they could have been drawn to that.

[Nymeros]

I think Shardplate is related  to Radiants' bonds to lesser sub spren. I think Kaladin was attracting wind spren because his bond was deepening as he drew closer to the fourth oath and his Plate. He also randomly drew them during the Thaylen city battle for no apparent reason.

[Andy92]

3 hours ago, Nymeros said:

I think Shardplate is related  to Radiants' bonds to lesser sub spren. I think Kaladin was attracting wind spren because his bond was deepening as he drew closer to the fourth oath and his Plate. He also randomly drew them during the Thaylen city battle for no apparent reason.

It happens somewhere in part one of the book as well, I just can't remember exactly where. Remember people talking about it when the sample chapters were being released before the book came out. 

[The Night Watcher]

14 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Somebody who's actually read the scene will probably have found some minor detail that explains everything, but Spren that show up in the Physical Realm(fear, glory, etc..) are drawn to the emotion in question.

Does whatever he was thinking of relate to wind in some way? If so, they could have been drawn to that.

Well... He was thinking Kaladin-y things: honor, duty, stoicism, etc. So maybe...? Nothing that has to do with wind, but if the windspren are subspren of honorspren, then maybe they're attracted to honor in Shadesmar. 

[Starla]

I think it's related to the Fourth Ideal. He was thinking about it at the time the wind spren showed up:

Quote

The Fourth Ideal was unknown to him, but the closer he drew to it, the more frightened he became. What would it demand of him? 

Something crystallized in the air beside him, a line of light like a pinprick in the air that trailed a long, soft luminescence. A mistspren sailor near him gasped, then nudged his companion. She whispered something in awe, then both scrambled away. 

What have I done now? 

 

[scifan]

I thought he came close to the fourth ideal a couple of times and I thought the wind spren appeared the other times as well...

[Andy92]

I think the Shardplate = a collection of lesser spren associated with each Order is pretty valid seeming. 

[Subvisual Haze]

I think he was drawing close to the spiritual realm as he came very close to speaking the 4th oath.  He is also able to hear Syl's thoughts directly in his mind.  That kind of connection independent of physical location (both Syl speaking directly into his thoughts and the windspren being drawn into the cognitive realm) seems to be a theme of the spiritual realm.

[The Night Watcher]

8 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I think he was drawing close to the spiritual realm as he came very close to speaking the 4th oath.  He is also able to hear Syl's thoughts directly in his mind.  That kind of connection independent of physical location (both Syl speaking directly into his thoughts and the windspren being drawn into the cognitive realm) seems to be a theme of the spiritual realm.

Best answer so far. Yeah, that explains how the windspren got there, but why'd they like Kaladin so much? Is it because windspren are subspren of honorspren and maybe are attracted to honor in the same way (at least in Shadesmar)?

[Wandering Investor]

Wind spren take note of Windrunner's when they're about to swear an ideal or stuff like that. For instance, when Hobber first drew in Stormlight several windspren stopped and watched him.

One of the radiant gems reveals that Windrunner's earn their armor at the fourth ideal. Assuming the lesser spren become their armor, which I think is correct, windspren will form Kaladin's armor when he reaches the fourth ideal. So the windspren are appearing to Kaladin whenever he approaches/considers the fourth ideal.

They appear to be not only attracted by the wind, but also by the specific style of honor that the Windrunner's employ.

[The Night Watcher]

22 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

Wind spren take note of Windrunner's when they're about to swear an ideal or stuff like that. For instance, when Hobber first drew in Stormlight several windspren stopped and watched him.

One of the radiant gems reveals that Windrunner's earn their armor at the fourth ideal. Assuming the lesser spren become their armor, which I think is correct, windspren will form Kaladin's armor when he reaches the fourth ideal. So the windspren are appearing to Kaladin whenever he approaches/considers the fourth ideal.

They appear to be not only attracted by the wind, but also by the specific style of honor that the Windrunner's employ.

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. So they're kind of floating around in preparation of something happening.

[Wandering Investor]

5 minutes ago, The Night Watcher said:

Ah, that makes a lot of sense. So they're kind of floating around in preparation of something happening.

Something like that. Similar to how flamespren are attracted to fires, the windspren seem to be attracted to the Windrunner's oaths, or in this case the considering/approaching of the oath. Plus who knows, maybe after the fourth oath Kaladin will have a permanent cloud of windspren following him around. I believe in the cousin spren becoming the armor, but I'm curious if its the same ones following each radiant around or if they just grab whatever spren are nearby. I'm leaning towards the former, Syl will get her babies and teach them to coast the winds and stick things to Kaladin. 

[Subvisual Haze]

The double eye of Vorinism diagram has the 10 essences and 10 surges laid out on it.  I think the Heralds were originally granted special control/power over a specific essence and 2 surges.  Jezrien for example was associated with the essence of Zephyr (wind), and had the surges of adhesion and gravity.  We haven't really seen evidence of how exactly, but the Heralds almost certainly have powers well beyond those of their associated radiant orders, as their powers were gifted straight from Honor himself.  If I had to guess, Jezrien had some level of direct control and manipulation of the essence of wind, and windspren as a result.

Later on the "higher spren" which had developed a sentient mind decided to copy the powers Honor gave to the Heralds, and the result were Radiants.  So I think the windspren are drawn to Kaladin as a Windrunner because his powers are an echo of Jezrien, their previous master.

[DocHoliday]

I think of the Windspren's attraction to Kal as being akin to tornadoes sucking up air. The low pressures of the Tornado cause the air in higher pressures to pull in towards the Center, eventually if it lasts long enough the air becomes a part of a dense swirling mass until the low pressure dissipates. If the process ends early, the air is released. Good Metaphor IMO for what we observe on Notum's ship.

[recneps]

I'm really liking the idea of the Subspren being associated with the bonds. It would make sense for the Armour - which is composed of several different parts - to be composed of several different Spren. Additionally, when Kaladin uses a Shardhelm as a glove, he doesn't hear screaming. Renarin doesn't show signs of that either. It makes sense that there'd be no screaming for Subspren, as they are not sentient in the way that Shardblades are.

[Yvainnie]

Syl and other honorspren acted surprised when they saw what kaladin did and he did it first in the village. I think they would not be surprised if it would be just about 4th Ideal. I think that windspren can make Plate but Kaladin did something special, in the village he created "Plate" for all that people to get to safety before storm so I dont think it will be that easy. It is probably somehow connected to Plate but I think Kaladin will have some special abilites or may it is foreshadowing about what will happen after 5th Ideal. 

[StrikerEZ]

20 hours ago, Yvainnie said:

Syl and other honorspren acted surprised when they saw what kaladin did and he did it first in the village. I think they would not be surprised if it would be just about 4th Ideal. I think that windspren can make Plate but Kaladin did something special, in the village he created "Plate" for all that people to get to safety before storm so I dont think it will be that easy. It is probably somehow connected to Plate but I think Kaladin will have some special abilites or may it is foreshadowing about what will happen after 5th Ideal. 

I'm pretty sure what Kaladin did do by stopping the store was just part of the Surge of Adhesion, which is manipulating pressure and vacuum. He created a vacuum where the storm could no longer reach him. The windspren were attracted to it because it would've done something weird to the air and the wind.

[Yvainnie]

54 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I'm pretty sure what Kaladin did do by stopping the store was just part of the Surge of Adhesion, which is manipulating pressure and vacuum. He created a vacuum where the storm could no longer reach him. The windspren were attracted to it because it would've done something weird to the air and the wind.

Actually very good idea but I am still not sure that would surprise Syl so much if it would be just ordinary Adhesion stuff. But could be even though that would meant that on the ship he draw for completly different reason than in village.

[Subvisual Haze]

I think the better question (which I have absolutely no clue regarding), is what in general is up with the Windspren?  

• Spren in general are ideas given form.  They are "born" in and live in the cognitive realm, but small visual reflections of them can "leak" into the physical realm.  While visually present, they generally have no physical interaction with the physical realm.  How did the windspren manage to become backwards?  They live in the physical realm and are almost never seen in the Cognitive Realm until Kaladin draws them there.  Did they all cross over at some point?  Also, why can windspren rather uniquely interact with the world around them?  Windspren are famous for pulling pranks on humans by making things stick together (which implies not only impacting the physical realm, but also applying an adhesion surge?).
• Why does a windspren appear identical to a bonded honorspren's reflection in the physical realm?  This doesn't seem to be the case for other "higher" spren.  They all seem to have unique and distinctive forms.
• Syl worries that if her bond with Kaladin is broken she will mindlessly wander on the winds, indistinguishable from a windspren.  Does this imply that the reverse is true, that other windspren are capable of bonding with humans to develop intelligence?
• Syl cryptically says at one point (when remembering events of Kaladin's childhood before they bonded):

  Quote

  "I didn't know you then, but the winds did, and I am of the Winds."

  "You're honorspren."

  "The winds are of Honor," she said, laughing as if he'd said something ridiculous.  "We are kindred blood."

   

I'm not sure what it all means, but there seems to be something extra weird about Windspren in general.  They seem to break a lot of rules.  Are they all growing into Honorspren as a result of Honor's death and shattering?  Or are they just holding some of Honor's power until someone ascends to take up the shard again?  Or could they be the Deadeye like remnants of past Honorspren who have gone stupid without their bond?

[Philomath]

2 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I think the better question (which I have absolutely no clue regarding), is what in general is up with the Windspren?  

• Spren in general are ideas given form.  They are "born" in and live in the cognitive realm, but small visual reflections of them can "leak" into the physical realm.  While visually present, they generally have no physical interaction with the physical realm.  How did the windspren manage to become backwards?  They live in the physical realm and are almost never seen in the Cognitive Realm until Kaladin draws them there.  Did they all cross over at some point?  Also, why can windspren rather uniquely interact with the world around them?  Windspren are famous for pulling pranks on humans by making things stick together (which implies not only impacting the physical realm, but also applying an adhesion surge?).
• Why does a windspren appear identical to a bonded honorspren's reflection in the physical realm?  This doesn't seem to be the case for other "higher" spren.  They all seem to have unique and distinctive forms.
• Syl worries that if her bond with Kaladin is broken she will mindlessly wander on the winds, indistinguishable from a windspren.  Does this imply that the reverse is true, that other windspren are capable of bonding with humans to develop intelligence?
• Syl cryptically says at one point (when remembering events of Kaladin's childhood before they bonded):

   

I'm not sure what it all means, but there seems to be something extra weird about Windspren in general.  They seem to break a lot of rules.  Are they all growing into Honorspren as a result of Honor's death and shattering?  Or are they just holding some of Honor's power until someone ascends to take up the shard again?  Or could they be the Deadeye like remnants of past Honorspren who have gone stupid without their bond?

Those are all really good questions. I hadn't thought of that before. Are they somehow "baby" honorspren. Spren that maybe were looking for radiants or who maybe had bonded radiants who hadn't said more than the first oath and therefore weren't blades to be abandoned? 

[Yvainnie]

5 hours ago, Philomath said:

Those are all really good questions. I hadn't thought of that before. Are they somehow "baby" honorspren. Spren that maybe were looking for radiants or who maybe had bonded radiants who hadn't said more than the first oath and therefore weren't blades to be abandoned? 

Syl said that when you want a babyspren you go somewhere and came back with one. May be they are those babies that are waitnig for someone to go for them and make them to honorspren.

[Bort]

On 26/01/2018 at 3:52 PM, Wandering Investor said:

Something like that. Similar to how flamespren are attracted to fires, the windspren seem to be attracted to the Windrunner's oaths, or in this case the considering/approaching of the oath. Plus who knows, maybe after the fourth oath Kaladin will have a permanent cloud of windspren following him around. I believe in the cousin spren becoming the armor, but I'm curious if its the same ones following each radiant around or if they just grab whatever spren are nearby. I'm leaning towards the former, Syl will get her babies and teach them to coast the winds and stick things to Kaladin. 

This has so much potential. I really hope Syl ends up with a small flock of semi-sentient Windspren to herd around with them.

[ghajan monk]

Honor's perpendicularity is the Highstorm so that is a direct link between Honor and wind. We could even say he invested the winds of Roshar. Perhaps Honorspren are Windspren that became infused with Honor's intent. 

[galendo]

On 4/9/2018 at 4:51 PM, Subvisual Haze said:

I think the better question (which I have absolutely no clue regarding), is what in general is up with the Windspren?  

• Spren in general are ideas given form.  They are "born" in and live in the cognitive realm, but small visual reflections of them can "leak" into the physical realm.  While visually present, they generally have no physical interaction with the physical realm.  How did the windspren manage to become backwards?  They live in the physical realm and are almost never seen in the Cognitive Realm until Kaladin draws them there.  Did they all cross over at some point?  Also, why can windspren rather uniquely interact with the world around them?  Windspren are famous for pulling pranks on humans by making things stick together (which implies not only impacting the physical realm, but also applying an adhesion surge?).

I think the answer to this question is that windspren are mostly in the Physical realm because the wind is mostly in the Physical realm.  Since the wind is always blowing, there's no reason for them to ever return to the Cognitive.

Contrast this to, say, flamespren.  Flamespren might pop into the Physical to hang out in a really hot fire, but then that fire burns out and they need to go back to the Cognitive.  But thanks to the laws of momentum and motion, the wind almost never really stops, just goes somewhere else. Thus windspren are constantly being "pulled" into the Physical by the ever-moving wind.

I suspect that the fact that they're basically always in the Physical is what allows them to use lashings.  They can affect the Physical more than other spren because they're much more in the Physical than other spren.

Quote

• Why does a windspren appear identical to a bonded honorspren's reflection in the physical realm?  This doesn't seem to be the case for other "higher" spren.  They all seem to have unique and distinctive forms.
• Syl worries that if her bond with Kaladin is broken she will mindlessly wander on the winds, indistinguishable from a windspren.  Does this imply that the reverse is true, that other windspren are capable of bonding with humans to develop intelligence?

Now these are good questions.  Why are windspren indistinguishable from mindless honorspren?  Of the Orders we know, they're the only ones with this property.  Perhaps it's just because, for story purposes, it was important for Kaladin to mistake Syl for a windspren (and for Syl to mistake herself for a windspren) early in WoK.  But it's possible there's more going on here, too.