[OB] Are we sure Elhokar is [redacted]?

[Subvisual Haze]

He's very dead, and we got 2 stark clues: his bonded shardblade appears next to him several seconds after he was stabbed, and his abandoned spren is picked up by Hoid at the end of the book.

I think this was intentional by Brandon.  After a lot of people weren't satisfied with the double death cheat at the end of WoR, he wanted to clearly demonstrate how we know when someone is dead.  Stick a pointy object in them and keep it there until the stormlight runs out.  Nale also previously demonstrated similar methods for eliminating radiants, and mentioned the importance of whether the Radiant can unconsciously draw in stormlight when he was baiting Lift in Edgedancer.

[StormingTexan he/him]

39 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

I don't think the problem with the WoR ending is wheter or not Kaladin killing Szeth is okay, but rather that Szeth suicides upon realizing he was never Truthless. Basically, it's about Szeth's character arc, not Kaladin's character arc.

Nope directly from Brandon it was all about Kaladin

Quote

There was something I wanted to do, and took a stab at it in the text, then backed off because I couldn’t make it work. It was important to me that Kaladin refuse to kill Szeth at the end. Kaladin is about protection, not vengeance, and once he realized that Szeth really just wanted to be killed, I wanted Kaladin to hesitate.

 

[Calderis he/him]

33 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Nope directly from Brandon it was all about Kaladin

 

And this is precisely why I detest the revision. 

The original ending shows exactly what would happen in combat. Kaladin made a strike, Szeth unexpectedly didn't block, and the strike hit. It would have been fine for Kaladin to feel something afterwards about how he knew Szeth could have blocked and it nagging at him... But redirecting his strike middelivery is just... Meh. 

And even worse, afterwards Kaladin just let's Szeth fall to his death in favor of retrieving the blade. If it was important not to kill him, how is it acceptable to just let him die? 

[Stark he/him]

3 hours ago, Weltall said:

You have to intend to create a spike, you can't do it by accident.

What about that time the guy stabbed Spook with a sword through a Pewterarm and a piece broke off in spook, granting him hemalurgic pewter?

 

Pretty sure that the guy trying to stab Spook did not intend to create a spike and grant it to the guy he was trying to stab.  Unless I am really, really mis-remembering that scene.  Which is possible, because I have not read the Hero of Ages in ages.

 

@Calderis I've read both.  My hard copy is the original, my kindle is the update.  I can stomach both, either are fine, though the redirect mid-swing seems a little convenient.  What I don't like is the revisionism.  So I head cannon it as alternate timelines that collapse back into each other in Oathbringer.

[RShara she/her]

10 minutes ago, Stark said:

What about that time the guy stabbed Spook with a sword through a Pewterarm and a piece broke off in spook, granting him hemalurgic pewter?

 

Pretty sure that the guy trying to stab Spook did not intend to create a spike and grant it to the guy he was trying to stab.  Unless I am really, really mis-remembering that scene.  Which is possible, because I have not read the Hero of Ages in ages.

 

@Calderis I've read both.  My hard copy is the original, my kindle is the update.  I can stomach both, either are fine, though the redirect mid-swing seems a little convenient.  What I don't like is the revisionism.  So I head cannon it as alternate timelines that collapse back into each other in Oathbringer.

Edit for MB Spoilers.

 

Spoiler

 

He was being guided by Ruin, directly.  Ruin was speaking in his mind and telling him where to stab and what to think.  So yes, he actually did intend to create a spike.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2-jordancon-2016/#e209

Quote

Questioner

Does Hemalurgy require intent to steal the stuff? Or could somebody in theory just stab through in the exact-- I understand the chances are extremely slim, it's like accupuncture ...happen by accident?

Brandon Sanderson

Here's the thing, you've seen it happen without the intent of the person holding the spike.

Questioner

But I think it's commonly accepted that Ruin was sort of manipulating some-- I'm specifically taking the Spook example off the table, I'm just saying, someone by accident stab - whoops! stab - whoops! and have a power?

Brandon Sanderson

Again, Ruin was involved in that. Every spike-- spiking that you saw had Ruin's intent behind it. I'm not going to answer your question, RAFO. You tried, you got me to admit that I was trying to wiggle around it, and I will tell you, today I wiggled around one question that none of you saw me wiggle around, really well, today. Today. I'm not going to tell you which one it is but there is one here that you all thought, you're all like "woo!" but you didn't realize you'd given me so much wiggle room.

 

And edit again for formatting.

Edited January 11, 2018 by RShara

[Calderis he/him]

Just now, Stark said:

What about that time the guy stabbed Spook with a sword through a Pewterarm and a piece broke off in spook, granting him hemalurgic pewter?

Mistborn spoilers 

Spoiler

Ruin was free and active at that time. He had a metaphysical hand on the blade to provide the intent for the spike, so that he could manipulate Spook in his Kel lookalike form. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/96/#e3214

Quote

Questioner

So like with Spook when he got spiked, where was the Intent?

Brandon Sanderson

The person who was driving that spike was being influenced by Ruin, and the Intent was there.

Questioner

So unless you knew what you were trying to do with a Hemalurgic spike, you couldn't do Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

You could not steal attributes no.

 

 

[Stark he/him]

Thank you both @RShara and @Calderis for correcting me and providing solid evidence.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

7 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

 In the case of Jasnah and Szeth both were seen alive again in the same book they seemingly died in. I think that is one consistency we can expect form Brandon.  

Huge spoiler for all Mistborn books:

Spoiler

Kelsier is brought back several books after his death. So your idea isn't completely correct.

 

[Govir]

31 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Huge spoiler for all Mistborn books:

I've read all the Mistborn books, and I really wanted this to just be something like

Spoiler

Wayne likes hats.

But that's because I skipped over the quoted text and thought you were just jumping on the Mistborn spoiler party.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

@Govir Huge Mistborn spoiler:

Spoiler

We like the fact that Wayne likes hats :-)

 

[Weltall]

37 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Huge spoiler for all Mistborn books:

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier is brought back several books after his death. So your idea isn't completely correct.

 

Playing Odium's Advocate here, this happened before people started grumbling about 'too many apparent resurrections' in Words of Radiance and the seeds for this spoiler were established years and years before it was actually confirmed, so it's sort of a different thing.

[Dreamstorm]

4 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

Nope directly from Brandon it was all about Kaladin

Quote

There was something I wanted to do, and took a stab at it in the text, then backed off because I couldn’t make it work. It was important to me that Kaladin refuse to kill Szeth at the end. Kaladin is about protection, not vengeance, and once he realized that Szeth really just wanted to be killed, I wanted Kaladin to hesitate.

Has Kaladin ever killed someone with Sylblade? A spren in the Kholinar palace (Syl is upset about this) and a Fused on the attack on the Kholinar wall are the only times I think we see him kill anything in OB...

[RShara she/her]

Adolin hears him say that his group pushed the Palace Guard back from his area.  Not sure if that means he killed anyone or not, though.