Jump to content

[OB] Who will be Odium's champion?


BraidedRose

Recommended Posts

Hoping to have some fun speculating and theorizing here. My apologies if there has been a similar thread. I scanned through the OB forum for any topics since the book came out but didn't see any, hopefully I didn't miss it. I don't actually have a strong theory on this yet myself. I just started a re-read and it will probably take me some time, but I was interested if people have opinions and wanted to make a case for it.

There is probably a ton of evidence to help us come up with theories but for now I just wanted to throw one out there. There was a very interesting passage in the first chapter when Dalinar is in a vision that I will quote below and I think this is an important clue.

Quote

A golden light, brilliant yet terrible. Standing before it, a dark figure in black Shardplate. The figure had nine shadows, each spreading out in a different direction, and its eyes glowed a brilliant red.

Dalinar stared deep into those eyes, and felt a chill wash through him. Though the destruction raged around him, vaporizing rocks, those eyes frightened him more. He saw something terribly familiar in them.

This was a danger far beyond even the storms. 

This was the enemy's champion. And he was coming.

Later when reflecting on the vision, Dalinar thinks again that he is haunted by the eyes, that he feared the figure with the red eyes, Odium's champion, the most. 

 

One possible suggestion is that this passage was there to hint at the idea that Dalinar himself may become Odium's champion and to give us more pause when it looked like that would happen at the end of OB. If so, maybe this was simply a red herring, but I doubt it, Dalinar did see something familiar just probably not himself. Personally, I think it unlikely now that Dalinar will be OC (abbreviating now) but would welcome anyone who thinks otherwise and wants to make a case for it. 

So if we assume OC will be someone Dalinar knows enough to haunt him what are some other possibilities? Side note, Dalinar assumes the figure he sees is male, not sure that is enough to rule out a female OC. Just to throw out a few others:

  1. Moash
  2. Venli
  3. Szeth
  4. Renarin
  5. Adolin
  6. Jasnah
  7. Kaladin
  8. Shallan

Personally, I think Moash and Venli are not familiar enough to Dalinar for him to have this reaction to one of them. The others probably are. Of these I think Dalinar would be most haunted by one of his sons and so my gut leads me in the direction of Renarin or Adolin. I think Adolin would be more interesting of the two and I have seen other suggestions and theories about Adolin going dark, so if I still like the idea after a re-read I might try to put together the evidence for that theory. For now, I would be interested in anyone's theories on this, whether it's a name I threw out there or someone else entirely. Also any other keys bits of foreshadowing in OB would be welcome. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, my money is on either Moash or Adolin. I think Dalinar, Venli, Szeth, Kaladin and Renarin are all mostly past their dark phases and will be on average on their road up from now on. I can't see any evidence for Jasnah. Shallan is a possibility, but it feels odd, she has other problems anyway. 

Moash is more obvious of the two, which is a part of why I don't like it. Also, he's a little piece of crem, so I don't want him to be a truly important figure, even a bad one. I hope Odium will just use him to kill some heralds and then spit him out. 

There are nice pieces of foreshadowing in favour of Adolin. The bright light in the vision corresponds to his name. He's born under the sign of nine. His lack of remorse for killing Sadeas and dodging responsibility contradicts Dalinar defying Odium by doing the exact opposite. He needs some character development. The eyes of the champion are familiar to Dalinar (they may be his own, but why not have it both ways). Shallan and Evi's death are both ticking bombs capable of pushing Adolin in interesting directions. 

Edited by Greywatch
Do not try to get around the swear filter, please.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Ailvara said:

Well, my money is on either Moash or Adolin. I think Dalinar, Venli, Szeth, Kaladin and Renarin are all mostly past their dark phases and will be on average on their road up from now on. I can't see any evidence for Jasnah. Shallan is a possibility, but it feels odd, she has other problems anyway. 

Moash is more obvious of the two, which is a part of why I don't like it. Also, he's a little piece of sh*t, so I don't want him to be a truly important figure, even a bad one. I hope Odium will just use him to kill some heralds and then spit him out. 

There are nice pieces of foreshadowing in favour of Adolin. The bright light in the vision corresponds to his name. He's born under the sign of nine. His lack of remorse for killing Sadeas and dodging responsibility contradicts Dalinar defying Odium by doing the exact opposite. He needs some character development. The eyes of the champion are familiar to Dalinar (they may be his own, but why not have it both ways). Shallan and Evi's death are both ticking bombs capable of pushing Adolin in interesting directions. 

I agree that there has been a lot of foreshadowing that makes me think it will be Adolin. I really, really, really hope that it isn't him, because I love him. I am almost hoping that there has been too much foreshadowing for Adolin and it will not be him.

Moash is the more obvious choice, but he may be almost too obvious.

I am also wondering, since Odium chose Dalinar and was defied by him, if something else entirely is going to happen. No more champion of Odium and now just an Ascended Dalinar with Cultivation's investiture as well in a clash of titans against Odium.

At the end of WoR I had the idea that Shallan was going to create more identities until she had 9, which would represent the 9 shadows, and should would be Odium's champion, but that seems wrong at this point.

Edited by Melovespie
Fixed a redundancy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adolin would be the one who create a stronger impact on Dalinar. His chapters are not very introspective, but with some effective building Brandon can turn him into the enemy and create some interesting dynamics between him and Dalinar/Shallan.

Moash is an obvious choice, but he is probably the most hated character in the Cosmere, I personally prefer him to stay as a little piece of sh*t slaying some Heralds and being an obstacle in the path to Odium's defeat instead of being its Champion. Maybe a final redemption, a single act of regretness before dying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After OB I'm thinking Moash. Would be a great dynamic with him and Kaladin on opposite sides. But some part of me thinks that Odium may attempt to try and use one of the Heralds as his champion. It depends on if Odium can "fix" them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Adolin would turn on his loved ones. Even he learns of how Dalinar killed Evi, and hates him because of it (not that likely) he will still not want to turn against his beloved brother, the woman he loves, his best friend, or any other family members because of it. 

Moash is very likely, and is certainly being built up to be a villain.

I'll also drop some odd names here for the sake of conversation:

-Nale, who is a mad Herald, obsessed with justice. He will follow the law of the land, and thus fight for the Voidbringers.

-Ishar, another mad Herald, thinks that he is a god.

-Eshonais spirit. Just because.

-Jasnah, since no one would see it coming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think Moash is just going to be "bad guy thug" and not the champion. he just isnt a big enough character for that to have any real impact.

 

we were basically told but not shown his friendship with Kaladin in WoR. there really isnt any scene of those two bonding. they go out once, which was also the night moash set up the meeting to move the plot along, wasnt really a significant character building moment. Moash has served his main purpose of reflecting Kaladin back at himself at this point, hes just a stooge from here on out.

 

if his friendship with Kaladin had actually been fleshed out, i could see him serving a larger purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote
10 hours ago, Ailvara said:

There are nice pieces of foreshadowing in favour of Adolin. The bright light in the vision corresponds to his name. He's born under the sign of nine. His lack of remorse for killing Sadeas and dodging responsibility contradicts Dalinar defying Odium by doing the exact opposite. He needs some character development. The eyes of the champion are familiar to Dalinar (they may be his own, but why not have it both ways). Shallan and Evi's death are both ticking bombs capable of pushing Adolin in interesting directions. 

 

I agree with what you said about foreshadowing. Being born under the sign of nine in particular is weirdly specific and hard to imagine that doesn't have something to do with Odium. I also am hoping that the lack of apparent response to Sadeas' murder either externally or emotionally means that we have yet to see the real fallout from it for Adolin. 

Quote
10 hours ago, Melovespie said:

I am also wondering, since Odium chose Dalinar and was defied by him, if something else entirely is going to happen. No more champion of Odium and now just an Ascended Dalinar with Cultivation's investiture as well in a clash of titans against Odium.

 

Very good point. My only quibble with this idea, going back to the passage I originally quoted, is that the foreshadowing for actually getting a champion is still there, but still a very plausible possibility. 

Quote
9 hours ago, Varion said:

I want to question these assumptions about Dalinar and what happened between him and Odium at the end of Oathbringer, before making any speculations about who OC might be. 

I agree with Melovespie that Dalinar WAS Odium's champion. It was no red herring. Odium had groomed Dalinar from a young age to be an ultimate warrior, slave to his passions, addicted to the Thrill, and so desperate for relief from his spiritual suffering that he would gladly hand over responsibility for his actions to Odium in return for the moral numbness we see Moash descending into. The greatest victory at the climax of OB was Dalinar's ability to resist Odium's influence and refuse to become his champion -- an outcome that Odium had thought was a fait accompli. Dalinar was able to defy this with the help of Cultivation, who, by temporarily taking away the memories of his wife, gave him time to grow as a person and develop the mental and emotional strength to face up to the monstrous things he'd done in the past and take ownership of them. 

Dalinar saw something familiar in the eyes of OC because he recognised something of himself in them. But that might not literally mean that he recognised his own physical eyes (or the eyes of someone he knew, or was related to). Throughout OB, Dalinar notices the Thrill in the eyes of people he is fighting, and recognises it with familiarity to his own experience. For example, in Kalanor:

If it is the familiar effects of the Thrill that Dalinar recognises in the eyes of OC, then it doesn't necessarily follow that Odiums next Champion needs to be someone that Dalinar knows. 

Furthermore, as Melovespie pointed out, we need to question whether Odium will even be able to choose a new Champion. Recall the meeting between Taravangian and Odium at the very end of OB:

This makes clear that Odium cannot choose another champion. Dalinar ensured that Odium's chosen champion (Dalinar) never actually manifested, and so Odium is now compelled to fight as his own champion. 

Which means that all of this speculation about who might be the (next) champion is entirely irrelevant.

 

Well, you may have me convinced that this actually makes the most sense. The only part that doesn't seem likely to me is that Dalinar is recognizing the Thrill in the eyes of another (unknown) champion and this is what haunts him. But if he is the only OC we will get and he is just seeing himself, I would believe that would terrify him and it certainly seems possible from the scene with Taravangian that Odium may not be able to choose another. My question would be why though? It seems somewhat imbalanced that once Odium agrees to a contest of champions if his chosen one refuses, he never gets another and I would wonder how that is. Still, great argument!

Also, I agree with everyone saying Moash seems like the obvious choice, but that I don't want him to have a role of such importance. Plus, going back to my original point, I don't believe Moash could be the figure Dalinar sees in the vision because I don't think he would recognize or be haunted by him in that way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Ailvara said:

There are nice pieces of foreshadowing in favour of Adolin. The bright light in the vision corresponds to his name. He's born under the sign of nine. His lack of remorse for killing Sadeas and dodging responsibility contradicts Dalinar defying Odium by doing the exact opposite. He needs some character development.

Hasn't he taken responsibility by the end of the book? He's confessed to Shallan and Dalinar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Kaladin said:

Hasn't he taken responsibility by the end of the book? He's confessed to Shallan and Dalinar.

I can’t speak for @Ailvara but my point is that from a storytelling perspective there hasn’t really been any consequences of Adolin killing Sadeas. Someone pointed out in another thread that if some random soldier had killed Sadeas in the same way it wouldn’t have changed the storyline up to now at all. Basically we got a big cliffhanger with the murder at the end of WoR and then Adolin spent most of OB not thinking about it. By the time he confessed to Shallan he’d convinced himself he did the right thing and it doesn’t seem to change their relationship. Even Dalinar’s reaction doesn’t seem that strong. So from my perspective this all seems to downplay something that should be a bigger deal (or else why do it at all) so it would be weak writing if things ended there, which leads me to think it may not end there.

Edited by BraidedRose
Fixed word choice for clarity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Kaladin said:

Hasn't he taken responsibility by the end of the book? He's confessed to Shallan and Dalinar.

@BraidedRose you're right, and I want to add to that as well. He said what he did, but never acknowledged he did anything wrong plus he didn't face any consequences. In fact, the only consequence was that he got to dodge another piece of responsibility that he didn't want, which was becoming the king. You could say he was almost rewarded. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, BraidedRose said:

So if we assume OC will be someone Dalinar knows enough to haunt him what are some other possibilities? Side note, Dalinar assumes the figure he sees is male, not sure that is enough to rule out a female OC. Just to throw out a few others:

  1. Moash
  2. Venli
  3. Szeth
  4. Renarin
  5. Adolin
  6. Jasnah
  7. Kaladin
  8. Shallan

I think none of them will be Odium's champion, because they all had been through that phase and their character have developed significantly. Most of readers believe that it will

be Moash but i disagree, Moash is a good soldier or maybe a good second/third in command but Odium's champion will be the commander who will lead armies for him, who will prepare strategies. Since we have no indication of who was Odium's previous champion it might be wrong to assume that it will be one of these 8.

19 hours ago, Varion said:


"You need me," Taravangian whispered.
"I need nobody."
Taravangian looked up there and there, glowing in front of him, was a set of words. A message from himself, in the past. Incredible! Had he somehow seen even this?
Thank you.
He read them out loud. "You have greed to a battle of champions. You must withdraw to prevent this contest from occurring, and so must not meet with Dalinar Kholin again. Otherwise, he can force you to fight. This means you must let your agents do your work. You need me."

Here is a name which is very easy to dismiss, "Taravangian". He is already working with Odium, he is a cold blooded killer, he can plan and lead armies (Odium can remove nightwatcher's curse). He have two kingdoms under his rule and a full network of people capable of working against KR's. At this point he looks like the best character to staand against Dalinar.

I may be wrong, but i think there is a purpose for Taravangian in future books and he might serve as Odium's champion.

Edited by TheWarriorPoet
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Sandra said:

I still think it could be Kaladin. Shallan refers to him often as having a lot of PASSION... And it would absolutely break a lot of readers' hearts.

I don't think it'd make sense in his arc so far. He's come a long way and still has a lot ahead in the same direction. He'll struggle some with who the bad guys are, but Odium won't be a part of the grey area. 

There's also this:

Quote

thinformparshendi (paraphrased)

My wife asked if we would regret naming our firstborn Kaladin (seeing as we don't yet know how Kal turns out).

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

You'll probably be very happy naming your son that.

Well, I don't know who would possibly be happy naming their son a champion of Odium. 

49 minutes ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

Odium's champion will be the commander who will lead armies for him, who will prepare strategies.

That made me think of Adolin again. A duelist (champion) and a general. Odium is also quite fond of Alethi highprinces.

Edited by Ailvara
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adolin maybe? I really can't see anyone else becoming Odium's Champion. Venli seemed to me to be on her path to becoming her own master, free of Odium's shackles, at the end of OB. Adolin on the other hand still has a lot of room to grow in any direction. That being said, I'm not certain if Odium even has a champion anymore. If Adolin is to be that commander of armies for him, he would need to fall very low to get there. So far I haven't seen signs of that catastrophic a fall for him.

Edited by Vissy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Ailvara said:

That made me think of Adolin again. A duelist (champion) and a general.

But he is not a cold blooded murderer, or someone who can be manipulated by Odium. If there was any chance of that, it could've been where Adolin saw Kal and Shallan, but his character handled that situation brilliantly, no bitterness, no "kill kaladin" feelings or no running away. He is one of those rare guys who are pure at heart, he might not be an KR yet but he is not Odium's tool

 

7 hours ago, Sandra said:

I still think it could be Kaladin. Shallan refers to him often as having a lot of PASSION... And it would absolutely break a lot of readers' hearts.

Kaladin is passionate about saving people, not killing them. Unless Odium offers him a deal that the fate of rosher will be decided by Kaladin and Dalinar's dual. Whoever wins will reign on rosher and other one will leave planet without killing any human or voidbringer, only in that case Kal can be convinced. Odium can't break him with pain, he had already been there and recovered, whenever Kal had been put under pressure he had always came back shining bright. Not Odium's champion

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ailvara said:

That made me think of Adolin again. A duelist (champion) and a general. Odium is also quite fond of Alethi highprinces.

Adolin doesn't define himself as a general, but as a duelist. He constantly under-evaluates his skills in both leadership and military strategy.

The one thing which OB really put into light was to become Odium's Champion, one needed to want it, to succumb to it, to submit to it: one cannot be forced into it. Odium gives you an easy way out, it takes away your guilt, your negative feelings, it gives you justification, it removes you from all responsibility, in exchange for which you become his minion.

Now if readers still want to believe Adolin can realistically accept to make this deal, Adolin whom always assume his responsibility into every single failure, Adolin whom always think he is to blame each time something goes wrong or each time he gets a critic, then there isn't much more I can do to convince them of the opposite. I personally find OB literally eliminated all chances of this theory of ever happening: nothing pains me more to see readers are still arguing in its favor. All arguments in favor are, IMHO, extraordinarily weak. He was born under the sign of nine? Really? This is not an argument, one person out of ten was born under the sign of nine: it is meaningless, but if readers want to literally ignore every single aspect of the character to solely focus onto one meaningless quote, then nothing I will say will convince them otherwise. 

I thought OB put it into a pretty obvious light: the eyes Dalinar recognize were his own: not his son, not his son who's too much like his mother to ever be this beast. Odium's Champion is the anti-Radiant: a broken man (or woman) refusing to reforge himself, a broken man (or woman) whom instead of thriving to better himself despite the hardships is persistently running away from responsibility, whom doesn't want to accept the failure is his. A man looking for an easy way out of a moral conundrum. A man like Dalinar whom could never accept he killed his wife. A man like Moash whom is constantly looking for outside justification as to why he wants revenge so bad, whom is blaming the King and society for his anger. Not a man like Adolin whom is taking in his actions, accepting them and whom is not blaming anyone else for them, not even Dalinar even if this would be the easy way out. After all, who's fault is it they got trapped at the Tower, who's fault is it Sadeas was not dealt with? It was Dalinar's, but Adolin is not the kind of man to push guilt onto someone else: he made his choice and he lives with it.

So sorry, but all of those still arguing for Adolin to become the Champion are, IMHO, making false road.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, maxal said:

Adolin doesn't define himself as a general, but as a duelist. He constantly under-evaluates his skills in both leadership and military strategy.

The one thing which OB really put into light was to become Odium's Champion, one needed to want it, to succumb to it, to submit to it: one cannot be forced into it. Odium gives you an easy way out, it takes away your guilt, your negative feelings, it gives you justification, it removes you from all responsibility, in exchange for which you become his minion.

Now if readers still want to believe Adolin can realistically accept to make this deal, Adolin whom always assume his responsibility into every single failure, Adolin whom always think he is to blame each time something goes wrong or each time he gets a critic, then there isn't much more I can do to convince them of the opposite. I personally find OB literally eliminated all chances of this theory of ever happening: nothing pains me more to see readers are still arguing in its favor. All arguments in favor are, IMHO, extraordinarily weak. He was born under the sign of nine? Really? This is not an argument, one person out of ten was born under the sign of nine: it is meaningless, but if readers want to literally ignore every single aspect of the character to solely focus onto one meaningless quote, then nothing I will say will convince them otherwise. 

I thought OB put it into a pretty obvious light: the eyes Dalinar recognize were his own: not his son, not his son who's too much like his mother to ever be this beast. Odium's Champion is the anti-Radiant: a broken man (or woman) refusing to reforge himself, a broken man (or woman) whom instead of thriving to better himself despite the hardships is persistently running away from responsibility, whom doesn't want to accept the failure is his. A man looking for an easy way out of a moral conundrum. A man like Dalinar whom could never accept he killed his wife. A man like Moash whom is constantly looking for outside justification as to why he wants revenge so bad, whom is blaming the King and society for his anger. Not a man like Adolin whom is taking in his actions, accepting them and whom is not blaming anyone else for them, not even Dalinar even if this would be the easy way out. After all, who's fault is it they got trapped at the Tower, who's fault is it Sadeas was not dealt with? It was Dalinar's, but Adolin is not the kind of man to push guilt onto someone else: he made his choice and he lives with it.

So sorry, but all of those still arguing for Adolin to become the Champion are, IMHO, making false road.

Couldn't agree more, Adolin is a pure hearted man who will die rather than become Odiums champion 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It feels like Adolin is on an arc to revive Maya and become a knight radiant that way. I know Brandon likes to surprise, but I don't think he will have Adolin turn evil.

Moash is being groomed to be the champion by giving him the Honor blade and having kill Jezrian. He may not end up being the champion, but that seems to be what Odium has in mind. 

Edited by Child of Hodor
Clarification
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not surprised the idea of Adolin as OC brings up a lot of strong opinions! 

Let me preface my post with saying that I don't necessarily want Adolin to become OC and I am in no way convinced that he will be but I don't think the possibility has been ruled out by what we have seen so far. I like Adolin and as he is now I think he is a goodhearted character. The stuff about sign of nine is just an interesting bit of foreshadowing but obviously in no way proves anything by itself and could be pointing to something else entirely. But I don't believe BS just included it as a random, meaningless detail. 

Quote
35 minutes ago, maxal said:

The one thing which OB really put into light was to become Odium's Champion, one needed to want it, to succumb to it, to submit to it: one cannot be forced into it. Odium gives you an easy way out, it takes away your guilt, your negative feelings, it gives you justification, it removes you from all responsibility, in exchange for which you become his minion.

I thought OB put it into a pretty obvious light: the eyes Dalinar recognize were his own: not his son, not his son who's too much like his mother to ever be this beast. Odium's Champion is the anti-Radiant: a broken man (or woman) refusing to reforge himself, a broken man (or woman) whom instead of thriving to better himself despite the hardships is persistently running away from responsibility, whom doesn't want to accept the failure is his. A man looking for an easy way out of a moral conundrum. A man like Dalinar whom could never accept he killed his wife. A man like Moash whom is constantly looking for outside justification as to why he wants revenge so bad, whom is blaming the King and society for his anger. Not a man like Adolin whom is taking in his actions, accepting them and whom is not blaming anyone else for them, not even Dalinar even if this would be the easy way out. After all, who's fault is it they got trapped at the Tower, who's fault is it Sadeas was not dealt with? It was Dalinar's, but Adolin is not the kind of man to push guilt onto someone else: he made his choice and he lives with it.

 

From what we have seen in OB, yes, one can't be forced into being OC. On the other hand, Dalinar had to resist very hard once he was chosen, it wasn't as simple as just saying no. I would imagine most other characters who were good by nature and not already inclined to fight for Odium would have a similar struggle and maybe another wouldn't have the strength that Dalinar did in that moment. I think what you said about someone who doesn't want to take responsibility for his own feelings and actions being the type to succumb is likely. Odium showed us that a tool he uses is to take someone's pain from them and there are probably a lot of well intentioned characters who might give in to that given the right motivation. Reading that chapter in OB, I definitely thought it was possible that Dalinar might give in and become OC at that point. Dalinar as we now know has some heinous things in his past, far more than Adolin as far as we know (murdering Sadeas really can't compare) but at this point he is still a character with the best of intentions and far stronger than most I would guess. That tells me that it is possible for someone we don't expect, someone who would not go out of their way to serve Odium to still end up as OC. 

Now Adolin at this exact moment in the story probably doesn't have nearly enough reason to give in to Odium, but that could still change. To me there are some hints in the story that his marriage to Shallan may be doomed for disaster and that he hasn't really dealt with Sadeas' murder, etc. which suggest that he may unfortunately have a lot of pain in his future. I personally expect that reading a lot of pain for Adolin would be devastating (if my unexpected grief at Elhokar's death is any indication BS knows how to catch me off guard and make me cry even for a character I didn't care about that much). Reading Adolin go dark would also be devastating. In a lot of ways I hope the pain I expect for Adolin is what helps him revive Maya and become an Edgedancer, I'm sure I would enjoy reading that more, but it may be instead what causes him to go dark. Or maybe both could occur, one doesn't rule out the other. 

On some some separate notes:

Quote
5 hours ago, TheWarriorPoet said:

I think none of them will be Odium's champion, because they all had been through that phase and their character have developed significantly. Most of readers believe that it will

be Moash but i disagree, Moash is a good soldier or maybe a good second/third in command but Odium's champion will be the commander who will lead armies for him, who will prepare strategies. Since we have no indication of who was Odium's previous champion it might be wrong to assume that it will be one of these 8.

Here is a name which is very easy to dismiss, "Taravangian". He is already working with Odium, he is a cold blooded killer, he can plan and lead armies (Odium can remove nightwatcher's curse). He have two kingdoms under his rule and a full network of people capable of working against KR's. At this point he looks like the best character to staand against Dalinar.

I may be wrong, but i think there is a purpose for Taravangian in future books and he might serve as Odium's champion.

 

I did think of Taravangian but I can also think of a lot of arguments against him, probably the biggest of which is that he is still strongly affected by Cultivation (Dalinar was too but what she did to him seems to have passed and had its effect now) and that could be a complicating factor. Odium might want to use him in any way he can but the effects Cultivation had on him would probably have to be undone somehow in order for him to be effective as OC. But I probably should have included him in my random list at the beginning. 

By the way, there are definitely people I threw into that list that I don't personally think at all likely to be OC (like Kaladin, Jasnah, Shallan), I just tried to include most of the major characters as a starting place. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BraidedRose said:

Not surprised the idea of Adolin as OC brings up a lot of strong opinions! 

Let me preface my post with saying that I don't necessarily want Adolin to become OC and I am in no way convinced that he will be but I don't think the possibility has been ruled out by what we have seen so far. I like Adolin and as he is now I think he is a goodhearted character. The stuff about sign of nine is just an interesting bit of foreshadowing but obviously in no way proves anything by itself and could be pointing to something else entirely. But I don't believe BS just included it as a random, meaningless detail. 

From what we have seen in OB, yes, one can't be forced into being OC. On the other hand, Dalinar had to resist very hard once he was chosen, it wasn't as simple as just saying no. I would imagine most other characters who were good by nature and not already inclined to fight for Odium would have a similar struggle and maybe another wouldn't have the strength that Dalinar did in that moment. I think what you said about someone who doesn't want to take responsibility for his own feelings and actions being the type to succumb is likely. Odium showed us that a tool he uses is to take someone's pain from them and there are probably a lot of well intentioned characters who might give in to that given the right motivation. Reading that chapter in OB, I definitely thought it was possible that Dalinar might give in and become OC at that point. Dalinar as we now know has some heinous things in his past, far more than Adolin as far as we know (murdering Sadeas really can't compare) but at this point he is still a character with the best of intentions and far stronger than most I would guess. That tells me that it is possible for someone we don't expect, someone who would not go out of their way to serve Odium to still end up as OC. 

Now Adolin at this exact moment in the story probably doesn't have nearly enough reason to give in to Odium, but that could still change. To me there are some hints in the story that his marriage to Shallan may be doomed for disaster and that he hasn't really dealt with Sadeas' murder, etc. which suggest that he may unfortunately have a lot of pain in his future. I personally expect that reading a lot of pain for Adolin would be devastating (if my unexpected grief at Elhokar's death is any indication BS knows how to catch me off guard and make me cry even for a character I didn't care about that much). Reading Adolin go dark would also be devastating. In a lot of ways I hope the pain I expect for Adolin is what helps him revive Maya and become an Edgedancer, I'm sure I would enjoy reading that more, but it may be instead what causes him to go dark. Or maybe both could occur, one doesn't rule out the other. 

On some some separate notes:

I did think of Taravangian but I can also think of a lot of arguments against him, probably the biggest of which is that he is still strongly affected by Cultivation (Dalinar was too but what she did to him seems to have passed and had its effect now) and that could be a complicating factor. Odium might want to use him in any way he can but the effects Cultivation had on him would probably have to be undone somehow in order for him to be effective as OC. But I probably should have included him in my random list at the beginning. 

By the way, there are definitely people I threw into that list that I don't personally think at all likely to be OC (like Kaladin, Jasnah, Shallan), I just tried to include most of the major characters as a starting place. 

I think Odium can remove Cultivations effects from him, like he tried with dalinar. And taravangian is best candidate, since he is already willing to work as Odiums agent 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@BraidedRose I have to re read it but I am fairly sure It is in book. Dalinar mentioned that Odium planned to bring back his memories at a time when he can break him. Although his memories returned earlier, I think it's safe to assume that Odium could've removed cultivations effects at his chosen moment. 

 

 

2 hours ago, BraidedRose said:

@TheWarriorPoet not to put too much on you if you don't have it handy but do you know of a quote that suggests Odium can remove the effects of Cultivation (or another Shard)? I'm not sure what you mean by he tried with Dalinar so maybe I'm missing something. 

Here you go, it's chapter 122

Screenshot_20171227-230357.jpg

Edited by Greywatch
Remember to add your posts to add something, don't double post.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The interesting thing about Adolin is that he does seem to be teetering on the edge of something. A couple of the things that make me think it probably won't happen is first, obviously Mayalaran. Reviving a Shardblade is something that was thought to be impossible, and standing where we are, I think it'd undercut this story to have Adolin become the champion of the enemy. Second, a smaller point but one that's stuck with me since I read it, is at the Battle of Narak at Stormseat, Adolin loses the Thrill. He thinks that's weird, but ultimately keeps fighting. We know that Dalinar losing the Thrill was the biggest indicator that he was becoming a Radiant, losing connection to Odium's power and becoming connected to Honor's power. Being that Adolin is surrounded by a number of people under the protection of Honor and Cultivation's power, it could be herd effect... Or it could be something more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...