[OB] Does anyone else like Jasnah?

[Farnsworth]

I thought she was going to get a book in the later 5!

[Emily she/her]

Wasn’t there a WoB about LGBTQI+ (sorry if I left out some letters) presence and he said something about Drehy and Ranette, And at a later date Shallan was Bi. (As in Jasnah was not one of the names mentioned) 

 Also with what oathforger said (BS being Mormon and all), him writing about things he doesn’t necessarily agree with is something that he does all the time as well. All the characters in Mistborn are alcoholics and murderers. All the major characters is Stormlight are a little, y’know, crazy and murderers. Murder is a bad thing, by most religions.

Also, back on topic, Jasnah always seems annoying to me, but I can’t actually find any faults in her. She (OB (+ WoR I suppose) spoiler) is a little rude and assumes to be in charge of Shallan...except she actually is in charge of her. And just at the end of WoK (that’s a spoiler warning) “I knew all along that parshmen were voidbringers” but she had no reason to actually trust Shallan previously. It could be that bit where she kills three men  but Shallan did enough overanalysing of that; also pretty much everyone is a murderer in this series, like I said. 

[evanna]

On 14.12.2017 at 4:06 AM, Prelude said:

I don't understand why it's assumed she must be a lesbian.  I know several woman that are not married or in a relationship who are not lesbians. Some people just chose to be alone.

My thoughts, exactly. I can't understand why people always assume that if the character doesn't seem to be interested in relationships at first glance, it is because he or she is gay or must have been abused in the past. Maybe Jasnah just doesn't care? She has a lot of different stuff to do and to keep her mind occupied, anyway.

At the moment I am quite willing to believe in abusement, though. Something must have broken her and this is one of the first things that comes to my mind. Anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing the actual backstory. 

As for the character, Jasnah is my second favourite, after Kaladin. I like her logical thinking and that she always stands her ground. At first, I had a feeling she was too firm and perfect, but I realized it was Shallan's point of view. 

[+gerareg she/her]

I also don't think she's gay. But then again, her falling in love with anyone and how that would pan out would still be interesting to read.

I don't feel she was abused. But she might have had some form of psychosis. I can't justify it right now, this is purely gut instinct. Dalinar mentioned something about her 'lunacy' in one of his flashbacks. So, yeah. Not much to go on there.

But to the original question. Yes I like Jasnah. Probably my number three.

[Prelude]

@evanna right there with you. I love Kaladin and he is my favorite character. In this book though Jasnah is the one who just killed it for me. I always liked her but now she is my absolute number 2. I can’t wait to get her flashbacks and I typically don’t like them. 

[IllNsickly he/him]

On 12/17/2017 at 0:47 AM, Yata said:

If her sexuality isn't relevant to the Story. I see no issue for him to make her lesbian. Like in the famous case of Dumbledore in HP.

By the way, I don't believe She is lesbian, She will have no reason to hide that, I think She is simply extremely uninteressed in romance or sexual relationship.

I got a serious Asexual impression from everything we have seen of Jasnah. Juat my opinion, though, and her sexuality is irrelevant to me either way.

I like Jasnah, Very much. Her cold calculating manner seems like a defensive mechanism to me. In a couple of Shallan PoV’s, we see Jasnah with the mask at least partially off, so we know that she does have feelings and emotions. She just processes them differently and privately.

And her OP Soulcasteryness, she has SIX YEARS of experience Surgebinding on everyone except possibly Szeth. He obviously had some serious go rounds training with the Honorblade.

That extra time to explore her abilities is worth a boatload.

Edited December 25, 2017 by IllNsickly
More words.

[DalinarsThrill he/him]

Her order is definitely the one I want to know the most about. Also with her being in charge now she'll probably be expected to marry/start a family...I don't think she'll like it, but it'll open up and show what type of sexuality she has!

[Stormlightning she/her]

For people who don't like her character, it seems that it's because they wouldn't like someone who has that personality. Which I understand, but I think the OP had a great point that just because you wouldn't get along with someone doesn't mean that they aren't extremely well developed. I'm always blown away by how consistent and realistic Brandon's characters are.

I understand the people who don't like Jasnah because of how she has treated Shallan. But I think that how she treats Shallan is a personal flaw of hers that is totally consistent with her as a character and it's always nice to see those that others look at as flawless and see that they do have flaws--sometimes really big ones, just not the things we usually think of as flaws. Jasnah's tendency to overlook people because she's processing things miles ahead of them is an awesomely legitimate weakness.

I also really like Jasnah because I see a lot of myself in her. It is easy to distain people that aren't like you, who you don't understand. But OP nailed that she really does care and feel, she just takes a lot of self-protective measures and is still trying to find the balance. Can't wait for her to find it.

[Everstorm Entropy he/him]

Jasnah is a tough nut to crack, for sure.  Personally, she's one of my favorite characters, but I'm not surprised in the least that some people don't like her (Most characters in the book find her to be cold and condescending; why wouldn't the readers feel the same?)

I've heard several arguments that Jasnah is lesbian or asexual, and while its certainly possible, I personally don't see enough there to make that connection.  I think it's a brash assumption to think "Well, she doesn't seem to want to get married, therefore she's gay." or "She's not interested in romance, therefore she's asexual."  Jasnah always struck me as a woman that was too focused on the end of the world to think about marriage and kids.  It doesn't mean she's not interested, but rather the importance of the Voidbringers and desolation, as well as her Radiant training, takes precedence.

I have a personal theory that her character arch will involve opening herself up to others.

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him]

Jasnah has been my favorite character from the beginning!

I love that she's a non-religous character who's ok with the religion of others as long as they are not to preachy about it.

 

She is highly intelligent but doesent feel to superior to unintelligent people(like Taravangian) just ignorant ones.

 

I don't really think there is a lot of evidence for her beeing gay. it wouldn't matter. But i think those vibes come from the fact that jasnah is behaving in masculine ways that dont necessarily need to be masculine. It's just the vorin society.

I think she remains unmarried because vorin tradition demands her husband to be uneducated. And her work is very important to her.

 

Jasnah has many flaws but i think they are well written and fitting.

[Vashakh Sadeas he/him]

Jasnah is, by far, one of my favourite characters in the whole of the Cosmere. She can seamlessly put away her emotions and think with a logical head and she remembers all the small details that others fail to piece together. 

As for her sexuality, I find it plausible that she is hetero-, homo-, or even asexual. As a heterosexual, she might not see a man within her scope of intelligence. I personally wouldn't marry someone so far beneath me on the IQ scale that we couldn't have a decent conversation. As a homosexual, since the Alethi have no major issues with it, would she not have found someone already? Amongst all the scholars and females she works with surely one reasonably suitable woman fits her fancy? As an asexual, she obviously finds solace in her works and doesn't much require the close company of another person (though I'm sure she has a few people she confides in). I could also propose that she is a demisexual with little interest in meeting people who are beneath her intellectual level and thus she is still single. 

Her cold and calculative demeanor is what I find so fascinating. Her logical pride. The way she has so perfectly made herself into what she is. 

A theory of mine that has to do with her trauma that seems to be an important part of her Knighthood is that she could be a sociopath. She has little regard for human life and only a logical brain. She has feelings, she says, but rarely lets them interfere with her judgement. This is wild and inconclusive speculation, however, and has no real basis. 

[Fourth Of The Night]

On 12/21/2017 at 10:13 AM, digitalbusker said:

I like Jasnah, but I think she's doomed to stay mostly a background character, partially because she's so powerful and partially because PoV's for super-smart characters are difficult to make work.

Psst: She's a main character in the second set of 5 books.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Jasnah is probably one of my favorite characters. Given the relatively small amount of screen-time she's given, she has surprising depth. I sympathize very much with her outlook, even if I disagree on some important points.

5 hours ago, Vashakh Sadeas said:

As for her sexuality

If I had to hazard a guess I'd say she's asexual, but I'll also note that she can be distant in a way that might make it hard for anyone to tell how she feels about others (which might be a contributing factor to her dismissing the entire thing).

5 hours ago, Vashakh Sadeas said:

A theory of mine that has to do with her trauma that seems to be an important part of her Knighthood is that she could be a sociopath. She has little regard for human life and only a logical brain. She has feelings, she says, but rarely lets them interfere with her judgement. This is wild and inconclusive speculation, however, and has no real basis. 

Depends what exactly you call a sociopath. Jasnah definitely exhibits sociopathic tendencies.

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him]

On 12/28/2017 at 9:37 PM, Drake Marshall said:

 

Depends what exactly you call a sociopath. Jasnah definitely exhibits sociopathic tendencies.

I don't really agree to that statement.

I find the tendency to describe Jasnah as emotionless and sociopatic a little troubeling.
Sure she did murde those thiefs in that ally in cold blood after she lured them out.

But if you think about it. All the other characters have a quite high killcount for much lesser reasons.
They all claim the Listener-Genicide also named the war of reckoning as honorable. Although they are all there to get rich.
Kaladin atleast feels troubled by the tings he is doing to protect a few

Jasnah just doesent beat around the bush like that. She is aware what deeds are necessery to survive and she is willing to take them without sugarcoating them.

I sometimes get the impression that (especially in world) she is viewed like a sociopath because she is a woman.
If her character was a man i think there would be far less of a discussion about her sexuality, mental health moralty.
Many of her traits would be more widely accepted.

Edited July 14, 2018 by Pagerunner
Removed OB Spoilers

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

On 26 december 2017 at 6:47 PM, Stormlightning said:

For people who don't like her character, it seems that it's because they wouldn't like someone who has that personality. Which I understand, but I think the OP had a great point that just because you wouldn't get along with someone doesn't mean that they aren't extremely well developed. I'm always blown away by how consistent and realistic Brandon's characters are.

 

This is all correct, but it is about how you define "like" in this thread. I think Jasnah is a very well-written and complex character. At the same time, I am not very fond of her as a person.

[Vashakh Sadeas he/him]

 

On 12/29/2017 at 5:30 AM, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

I don't really agree to that statement.

I find the tendency to describe Jasnah as emotionless and sociopatic a little troubeling.
Sure she did murde those thiefs in that ally in cold blood after she lured them out.

But if you think about it. All the other characters have a quite high killcount for much lesser reasons.
They all claim the Listener-Genicide also named the war of reckoning as honorable. Although they are all there to get rich.
Kaladin atleast feels troubled by the tings he is doing to protect a few

Jasnah just doesent beat around the bush like that. She is aware what deeds are necessery to survive and she is willing to take them without sugarcoating them.

 

I sometimes get the impression that (especially in world) she is viewed like a sociopath because she is a woman.
If her character was a man i think there would be far less of a discussion about her sexuality, mental health moralty.
Many of her traits would be more widely accepted.

Recall also, that sociopathic tendencies are not black and white. Someone can be 40-60% sociopathic and not be a full blooded sociopath. I believe she could be placed on the sociopath scale, and still have feelings for certain people who she has built a bond with, as Gavilar and Navani. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Pagerunner
Removed OB Spoilers

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

7 hours ago, Shaukan-son-Hasweth said:

I don't really agree to that statement.

I find the tendency to describe Jasnah as emotionless and sociopatic a little troubeling.
Sure she did murde those thiefs in that ally in cold blood after she lured them out.

But if you think about it. All the other characters have a quite high killcount for much lesser reasons.
They all claim the Listener-Genicide also named the war of reckoning as honorable. Although they are all there to get rich.
Kaladin atleast feels troubled by the tings he is doing to protect a few

Jasnah just doesent beat around the bush like that. She is aware what deeds are necessery to survive and she is willing to take them without sugarcoating them.

Oh, I don’t think Jasnah is truly a sociopath. Like Vashakh said, it’s not binary. But she does have some of those traits. She definitely supresses her emotions and empathy more than a normal person would.

Jasnah is probably more mentally balanced than many of the other characters you are comparing her to. But that’s not really saying much. The stuff our characters have to deal with takes a toll. Kaladin isn’t a sociopath, but he has plenty of other issues to cope with.

And, honestly, are Jasnah’s traits necessarily a bad thing? I’d say Roshar badly needs Jasnah Kholin. They’re fighting an evil god of passion and hatred. Look how close Dalinar came to being consumed by that. Can you imagine the unmade trying to corrupt Jasnah? The attempt would almost be laughable.

[RiyriaMistborn]

I'm one of those who doesn't like her. At all. Sure, she's absolutely brilliant, but she's also a rude snob. I can't stand the way she treats people like they're inferior to her just because they don't know as much. If she were more willing to actually teach instead of criticize, then maybe she'd be likeable. Instead, she acts like she expects everyone to have as much knowledge as she does when they haven't have the opportunities she's had. She's had various forms of learning, schooling, libraries, money, and more at her fingertips since she was a child. 

Yet for all her research, she still doesn't understand PEOPLE. Shallan spent SIX MONTHS chasing her from country to country, and Jasnah brushes her off.  For all her brilliance, she doesn't seem to spot what King T is up to, either. She gets a few redeemable moments in OB, but I doubt she'll ever be a character that I like. I expected her to go through with it in Thaylen City, and was about ready to chuck the book across the room because I was still hurting from Part 3. I'm glad she didn't, and it showed some beginning character growth for her. There were also some other hints about her past during Dalinar's flashbacks that leave me interested in learning more about her, but I definitely wouldn't be disappointed if Brandon offed her. 

[IllNsickly he/him]

6 hours ago, RiyriaMistborn said:

I'm one of those who doesn't like her. At all. Sure, she's absolutely brilliant, but she's also a rude snob. I can't stand the way she treats people like they're inferior to her just because they don't know as much. If she were more willing to actually teach instead of criticize, then maybe she'd be likeable. Instead, she acts like she expects everyone to have as much knowledge as she does when they haven't have the opportunities she's had. She's had various forms of learning, schooling, libraries, money, and more at her fingertips since she was a child. 

Yet for all her research, she still doesn't understand PEOPLE. Shallan spent SIX MONTHS chasing her from country to country, and Jasnah brushes her off.  For all her brilliance, she doesn't seem to spot what King T is up to, either. She gets a few redeemable moments in OB, but I doubt she'll ever be a character that I like. I expected her to go through with it in Thaylen City, and was about ready to chuck the book across the room because I was still hurting from Part 3. I'm glad she didn't, and it showed some beginning character growth for her. There were also some other hints about her past during Dalinar's flashbacks that leave me interested in learning more about her, but I definitely wouldn't be disappointed if Brandon offed her. 

Ok, just gonna toss my jots on the pile...

 

Rude Snob = Elitist Jerk. I get where you’re at with this. At the same time, though, I get where She is at with this. Single minded determination in conjunction with a Superior education and Exceptional Intelligence lends itself to that sort of behaviour. I’ve a 16 year old nephew who does this with music. Aspbergers... And I absolutely appreciate this about Jasnah’s personality.

In the same vein, Exceptional Intelligence and Interpersonal Skills have been, in my experience, inversely proportionate. Of course Jasnah has terrible people skills. She has devoted her entire life to Scholarship,  Books, scrolls, remnants and scraps of knowledge. With the exception of asking Ardents about specific writings or topics, her people skills as an adult have been developed by interaction with Ardents, Porters, and whomever was conveying her from place to place. Ostensibly ~10-15 years. 

Shallan commented about her ‘Chronic Condition,’ I believe. That of being Right. She has unrealistic expectations of those around her? ABSOLUTELY.  Navani was probably the best weathervane she had as a child and we have already heard Navani’ commentary on Child Jasnah.

 

 Jasnah is a machine. Work until you have your solution, then attack the next Thing on your mind. She is probably the most consistently intelligent Person on Roshar. By Accepting Shallan as her ward she has allowed herself to begin Humanizing her emotions, even if it is unintentionally.

 

Our Favorite Bridgeman has already proven himself as respectably intelligent. As such, any Interactions they may have in the future will further Jasnah’s Human growth.

 

TL;DR: Please reserve Judgement on Jasnah for another book or two.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by IllNsickly
Stuff.

[Stormlightning she/her]

@IllNsickly Right with you there on the believably of Jasnah's character. Plus I come from a family with a pretty wide variety of IQs (if you want to call it that) and can add my witness that with high intelligence usually comes a lack of social skills (Taravangian's magical incompatibility of compassion and capacity came as a surprise to me, since I feel like it's rare for those to grow together anyway). I think Jasnah is an invaluable character that will help save the world/solar system/Cosmere/whateverthisseriesisreallyabout. She will definitely have to learn some more compassion and teamwork along the way, and I'm excited to see her learn those things. Yay, growth!

I love Jasnah. I think she's an important and necessary sort of person to have around, even if most people prefer them at a distance (which only prevents the development of those social skills people are so eager to see her develop). And the same compassion haters expect from her, they should probably be showing her. Many would say 'she's an adult, and so smart, there's no excuse why she couldn't be compassionate too' but I've rarely found that to be realistic. Most people like Jasnah simply struggle to learn it. It's kind of rare for them to experience the compassion of others, so of course gaining it is slow-going.

[Shaukan-son-Hasweth he/him]

So many people say "she is like a maschine, a cold fish , condescending"

 

A lot of the time Jasnah comes across like that because she is seen through another VP. And Most of those characters already think that of her.

 

But if you listen to the things shes actually saying it gives a different picture.

 

She is pretty self-aware of her shortcomings. She often makes herself apologize to Shallan and notes that she is not good at that.

She knows that she is not naturally better than other people. She says power is just an illusion.

Jasnah is really tolrant and accepting of others believes. And believe me. You get annoyed when people always start a discussions about your lack of faith or religious beliefs but get offended when you actually start giving a proper point and don't just blindly follow them.

It's never Jasnah blindly preaching. Somebody always approches her about the topic.

Spoiler

I'm dissapointet that the Jasnavani reunion was not on screen.

I think it would have shown her human side pretty well.

Its the lack of those scenes that show her like most think of her.

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

On 12/29/2017 at 6:21 PM, RiyriaMistborn said:

I'm one of those who doesn't like her. At all. Sure, she's absolutely brilliant, but she's also a rude snob. I can't stand the way she treats people like they're inferior to her just because they don't know as much. If she were more willing to actually teach instead of criticize, then maybe she'd be likeable. Instead, she acts like she expects everyone to have as much knowledge as she does when they haven't have the opportunities she's had. She's had various forms of learning, schooling, libraries, money, and more at her fingertips since she was a child. 

Yet for all her research, she still doesn't understand PEOPLE. Shallan spent SIX MONTHS chasing her from country to country, and Jasnah brushes her off.  For all her brilliance, she doesn't seem to spot what King T is up to, either. She gets a few redeemable moments in OB, but I doubt she'll ever be a character that I like. I expected her to go through with it in Thaylen City, and was about ready to chuck the book across the room because I was still hurting from Part 3. I'm glad she didn't, and it showed some beginning character growth for her. There were also some other hints about her past during Dalinar's flashbacks that leave me interested in learning more about her, but I definitely wouldn't be disappointed if Brandon offed her. 

Empathy is the sort of thing comes more easily for some than it does for others. It’s hardly fair that this is the case, but then, it’s also hardly fair that intellect comes more easily for some than it does for others. I do believe Jasnah tries her best.

[The Night Watcher]

On 1/3/2018 at 4:07 AM, Drake Marshall said:

Empathy is the sort of thing comes more easily for some than it does for others. It’s hardly fair that this is the case, but then, it’s also hardly fair that intellect comes more easily for some than it does for others. I do believe Jasnah tries her best.

Yeah... I don't think Jasnah intentionally hurts people, just doesn't connect through small talk and pointless niceties and therefore doesn't always understand what someone might find offensive. When she tells Shallan she's not good with her wards, I believe this is what she meant. A sort of facepalm moment where she realized, yet again, she is not good with people.

 

[Bort he/him]

On 16/12/2017 at 0:05 AM, Oathforger said:

Agreed. Plus, BS is Mormon, and while he did include Drehy's situation, I doubt he'd do it with a main character.

I think there is WoB that Shallan is bisexual. It's on the Coppermind, at least.

[Bort he/him]

On 30/12/2017 at 8:21 AM, IllNsickly said:

TL;DR: Please reserve Judgement on Jasnah for another book or two.

This. Please remember one of the fundamentals of the Stormlight Archive... Journey before destination. Yes, Jasnah has some really unlikable qualities when we first meet her, but that's the point. Yes, she might have already been Radiant, but she still has the journey ahead of her.

Edit: Oops, sorry for double post.

Edited January 7, 2018 by Bort