[OB] Kaladin's Ideal Woman

[JamesMc6]

20 minutes ago, Korbin said:

There are a lot of Syladin shippers here so I have a question for you guys... How exactly would it work? How would you have an actual romantic relationship with a spren? (This isn't a dig or anything I'm just curious)

I don't know, that's why I'm leaving it up to Brandon to tell me. Right now, I think Kaladin is in love with Syl. The how--physical or otherwise--is a Brandon RAFO. But, keep in mind Brandon is ALL ABOUT turning literature troupes on their head. And what's more troupey than a fantasy romance. With that in mind, of course someone in SA is going to fall in love with a spren.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Brightlord Brooding Eyes

[bdoble97]

1 minute ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

I don't know, that's why I'm leaving it up to Brandon to tell me. Right now, I think Kaladin is in love with Syl. The how--physical or otherwise--is a Brandon RAFO. But, keep in Brandon is ALL ABOUT turning literature troupes on their head. With that in mind, of course someone in SA is going to fall in love with a spren.

Absolutely excellent point right there about turning troupes on their heads

[StormingTexan he/him]

12 minutes ago, aemetha said:

I'm not sure this is a good example. Star Trek is science fiction, while The Stormlight Archive is real life .

This made me laugh. 

[Stark he/him]

31 minutes ago, Korbin said:

How would you have an actual romantic relationship with a spren?

That depends on whether or not you believe that you can have a romantic relationship without a physical component.  As love is a thing of feelings, and concepts, it could be a purely cognitive and spiritual experience, not requiring any physical intimacy.  They share a deep, intimate bond.  Physical gestures would become more interesting, as it would be more about the thought behind them, rather than the actual act.  I think it is entirely possible to have a romance completely devoid of the physical.

 

Now, before anyone accuses me of being entirely too serious, they do have some loopholes.  They can always have dates together in the cognitive realm, where Syl has tangible substance.  Just a quick jump on the Elsecaller Uber service to go to the girlfriend's realm.

 

And if they go for off world dates, they could always end up meeting Kelsier, who may be able to teach Syl how to Pinocchio herself into being a real girl.  I mean he did it, with some interesting, albeit indiscreet piercings.  Syl is smart enough to adapt Kelsier's techniques to find a far more wholesome route to becoming fully present in the physical realm.

 

And then there are still other avenues for them to physically express their relationship that I don't actually want to discuss, so I'll leave that to your imaginations.

[Awesomness]

1 hour ago, Brightlord Brooding Eyes said:

I just immediately thought, He loves her. That way.

Of course he loves Syl. That doesn't mean it should be romantic. On the contrary, I think a romantic relationship could somehow diminish the bond...

I do believe whoever ends up with Kaladin will be in an awkward situation... she will always be a step behind Syl...

[Hulaine]

40 minutes ago, Korbin said:

There are a lot of Syladin shippers here so I have a question for you guys... How exactly would it work? How would you have an actual romantic relationship with a spren? (This isn't a dig or anything I'm just curious)

So for me, I think Syladin is happening and will continue to develop, as an asexual relationship. I don't envision their relationship in the 'normal' sense (i.e. Dalinar/Navani, Shallan/Adolin, etc.), just that Syl will be the closest thing Kaladin has to a relationship, and because of their relationship Kaladin won't need or want anyone to fill what is essentially the same role for him, just with the addition of sex. 

I'm open to Kaladin and anyone else though, and have absolute faith in Brandon Sanderson doing it well if he does, but for now, which is only 3 of 10 books in (so not much to go off!), there's nobody that would fit with him in the relationship sense.

[JamesMc6]

1 minute ago, Awesomness said:

Of course he loves Syl. That doesn't mean it should be romantic. On the contrary, I think a romantic relationship could somehow diminish the bond...

I do believe whoever ends up with Kaladin will be in an awkward situation... she will always be a step behind Syl...

You may have predicted the next great love-triangle in Stormlight.

[Ailvara]

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

What about Azure?! They have the soldier bond and stuff  

Actually, it has been discussed in another topic at some point. Good ship, I think my favourite one after Shalladin  And she has some neatly different abilities. But I don't see it happening, just my gut feeling.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Deval said:

Well, when looking at the whole idea that people are attracted to people like their parents we need to analyse Hesina ( I wouldn't say Lirin because Kal was definitely closer to Hesina). Hesina was the only person in Hearthstone who could read and often read to him from textbooks. This along with just the general vibe I get from her makes me think of the divine attributes learned and giving (Truthwatcher) and Wise and Caring ( Elsecaller). Huh, those are the legitimately the orders that I fit best that's odd. But yeah, I can definitely see Kal with a truthwatcher or an elsecaller (or a renarin)

I was also going to write about how many Hesina-like qualities would be perfect for Kaladin! Smart and educated, supportive, caring, challenging, patient, open-minded... Nothing too exciting, but solid.

In the topic of Rysn, I just found this quote looking for something else entirely, and I think it can be relevant:

Quote

If you do read the book, one of the things I do to try to keep this all from going out of control is I write what are called "Interludes." Most of these (all but the ones about a character named Szeth) are essentially short stories in the world, about characters you don't have to remember or learn. They add depth, expand the plot, but are set off as their own thing with a specific sort of "This won't be on the final" sort of feel.

 

So does it mean, that she'll never be a prominent character? I think this is only about WoK, otherwise he would have to exclude Lift as well, but still, I think Rysn is set to remain an interlude character.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Ailvara

[Song she/her]

I don't think Kaladin needs a relationship to be complete. I think the scene with the rock has a double meaning. Shallan reminded him of Tien, and then Syl in turn gets excited about the rock. ie Syl=Kaladin's new Tien. He doesn't need a relationship to help him when he is down, he has Syl (and Bridge 4 to a certain extent)

All that said, I love reading romance and it won't do him any harm!

No characters in existence at the moment work for me, so we would need a new one.

I think Kaladin needs someone who is NOT a Windrunner. Someone who can remind him that life doesn't have to always be about serious things and sacrificing yourself all the time.  Someone who can challenge him when he is too stubborn and make him laugh. I like the idea of a scholar- Kaladin is unusully bright (his Father suggests this) and has intelligent parents which would lend him that way.

My silly theory? Janah mentioned to Shallan that she has evidence that she doesn't do well with wards. So presumably she has had others under her tutelage who did not work out. I love the idea that one of her old students turns up, and ending up a love interest for Kal.  They would be bright, stubborn (which made Jasnah dump them as a ward), and a little bit irreverant.

Incidently, Shallan was wrong about the flying thing. Having a boyfriend who can fly? Okay. Having a boyfriend who can lash you to the sky so you can fly with him? That is the most romantic thing ever.

If Kaladin and his eventual girl don't have a scene of them flying off into the sunset I will be very disappointed!

[Korbin]

5 minutes ago, Song said:

Okay. Having a boyfriend who can lash you to the sky so you can fly with him? That is the most romantic thing ever.

Well I guess it would be romantic. If in reality they weren't actually falling... Hopefully she isn't scared of hights... LOL

[Zea mays she/her]

I don’t really want to see a roantic relationship develop between Kaladin and Syl, but if such a thing is to happen, I do not think Syl will become fleshy. Rather, Kaladin will become less corporeal  and more “cognitive”. Maybe he can take over her dad’s ‘business’.

[MonsterMetroid]

5 hours ago, SLNC said:

At any rate, a romantic relationship between Kaladin and Syl would diminish how much the Nahel bond really means. It just isn't romantic and it doesn't need to be.

Definitely this. I think a lot of time we focus on romantic relationships and the Eros type of Love when there are some many other relationships to explore.

[Llarimar he/him]

7 hours ago, aemetha said:

I'm okay with waiting forever for a love interest for Kaladin. I really hate the idea that people have to have a romantic interest in order to be happy. People don't make other people happy. They give them something else to care about, but happiness is more about having needs met and being self-actualised. Social interaction is important in that, but that social interaction needn't be romantic.

I think this is a good point.  I wonder sometimes if Kaladin is a little but too neurotic and highly strung to romantically connect with anyone - he's always so focused and intense, and whenever he's written from the perspective of other characters they describe him as overly brooding and intimidating.  Despite being very loyal and idealistic in his beliefs, I think he might have commitment issues with settling down with someone long-time romantically.  He has plenty of other social relationships with people, and he might not be "cut out" for romance (not everyone is).  

Part of the reason I think this is because I can't imagine a woman who would be "right" for Kaladin.  Certainly none of the characters we've met so far would be very compatible with him (although of the suggestions given above, I think Rysn is the most interesting).  I find it amusing that Jasnah is suggested, because they seem like literally the least compatible couple you could imagine.  

If Kaladin does become romantically involved with someone, I really hope Brandon doesn't make it cliche or obligatory, as if he just "needs" to have a romantic connection because it's expected from main characters in books.  It has to make sense for the plot of the story and for Kaladin's story arc, and it probably needs to be someone we haven't met yet.  

I have wondered if perhaps Tarah will return into the story.  She was brushed over very briefly in Oathbringer, but I think it's possible that she will have a more prominent role in the future (although at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if she never shows up again).  

[Mulk he/him]

Kal and Syl remind me of some people I knew a long time ago.  Best friends of the opposite gender, who were pretty much incapable of seeing each other in a romantic light.  Romance would be a downgrade for them, honestly, a complication, and nearly impossible anyway.  In any case, she wants him to get laid.  There's no hint anywhere in there of her wanting to be the one who does the deed.  I'm fairly sure Brandon gave the answer he did because he had a hard time taking the question seriously.

I really don't think Kal is fit for romance at this point.  I'd rather he stay out of it, at least in the first five.

[thegatorgirl00 she/her]

No one has mentioned Venli yet. We know human singer relationships have happened before. She's a scholar. They would need to develop a friendship first, because of how singer forms work. 

In terms of personality, my initial thought is someone like Adolin. Someone incredibly loyal and caring, but still able to keep up with him. Someone who knows how to deal with his depression. Someone who is truly a partner to him. I think it might be somewhat difficult for him to view someone as a partner, because he will either want to protect them or he's their superior officer. 

[Llarimar he/him]

53 minutes ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

In terms of personality, my initial thought is someone like Adolin. Someone incredibly loyal and caring, but still able to keep up with him. Someone who knows how to deal with his depression. Someone who is truly a partner to him. I think it might be somewhat difficult for him to view someone as a partner, because he will either want to protect them or he's their superior officer. 

That's funny, if Adolin were a girl I could easily see him being the most compatible with Kaladin in a relationsihp.  Maybe that's why Kaladin doesn't work very well with Shallan - they both need someone consistent and simple like Adolin, who has gone through less trauma than they have and can lovingly comfort them without having to understand.  

I can also see Kaladin having a hard time in a relationship because he would be overly protective and obsessed with their welfare - if they were ever killed somehow he would be hopelessly devastated and would blame himself.  He also can be a bit of a control freak, which usually is beneficial for him on the battlefield when all of the soldiers are in chaos and in need of a leader, but it's definitely not a helpful quality in a relationship.  This is one of the reasons why he and Jasnah are so incompatible - they both have very "Type A" personalities - commanding, abrasive and unrelenting.  

There is still a lot of ground to cover in the Stormlight series, and I am 90% sure that if Kaladin ever does have a relationship, it will be with someone we haven't met yet.  

Edited December 14, 2017 by Llarimar

[Vissy]

To the people saying a Syladin relationship could be asexual, I highly doubt that. Kaladin is described as a man of passion. I very highly doubt that he'd be completely happy in a completely asexual relationship - how could he? He's not asexual. 

[Korbin]

2 hours ago, thegatorgirl00 said:

No one has mentioned Venli yet. We know human singer relationships have happened before. She's a scholar. They would need to develop a friendship first, because of how singer forms work. 

I don't think Venli is Kals type. She is super reserved and kind of quite and nervous. Though of all of the charater's in stormlight Kal is probably the most considerate of the Parsh... (What do I call them? Pashendi Parshmen? Voidbringers? I'll just stick with parsh...)

[Song she/her]

36 minutes ago, Korbin said:

 (What do I call them? Pashendi Parshmen? Voidbringers? I'll just stick with parsh...)

I have been calling the non-Fused ones Listeners in my head

[ghajan monk]

Just read this thread and to recap we have:

1. Jasnah but not romantically.

2. Syl but not sexually.

3.everyone else but not likely.

[Greywatch she/her]

There's also: 4. Adolin, if only.

[MonsterMetroid]

5 hours ago, Rainier said:

Laral is literally the worst kind of lighteyes and the epitome of everything Kaladin says he hates about them and their social hierarchy

I think you are getting Laral mixed up with Roshone, or Aesudan (Side note the pronunciation of the first syllable of her name I find rather appropriate). We actually dont know a ton about Laral. We know she had dreams of Kaladin getting a shardblade and presumably marry him, we know she kind of got stuck in Hearthstone with a different brighteyed family when her father died, and we know she got stuck marrying an old man for political reasons. I don't see anything in there that makes her the most horrible of lighteyed society. So far I think she has made way less egregious choices than whiny Elhokar.

We also know that she has the respect of her people.

Quote

... "Well? Maps? Surely Roshone keeps survey maps of  the nearby areas."

...

"We'll want to wait for the lady's permission," the guard captain said. "Sir"

Kaladin raised an eybrow. They'd disobey Roshone for him, but not the manor's lady? ...

Oathbringer Ch. 7

Taking all of this into consideration I fail to see how she could be considered the "worst kind of lighteyes"

[Dreamstorm]

11 hours ago, MonsterMetroid said:

When Roshone dies because Moash kills him too, and forces all of Hearthstone to accept that they need to move to Uritheru and Kaladin starts seeing Laral again... yeah its got to be Laral because even as a floating near demigod she is all like "you stabbed my floor"

If Kal doesn’t end up with She Who May Not Be Named, then Laraladin is my top pick, primarily because Syl was a big fan. I also find ending up with your childhood crush to be cute both in fiction and in real life, though 

@Rainier your thoughts are noted. Castration over Laraladin!

@Greywatch #kadolinforever 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Dreamstorm

[Greywatch she/her]

16 minutes ago, Dreamstorm said:

 #kadolinforever 

Heyyy, if you ever wanted to write up that kadolin essay, I'd sure love to read it!  

[Subvisual Haze]

10 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

Not me. He showed her the rock like Tien use to collect. Tien cheered him up when he was around he is saying the same thing about Shallan. 

Right.  Tien was Kaladin's innocence, someone to protect, someone who could always cheer him up.  I think the important takeaway from this scene was Kaladin realizing that he wasn't even all that interested in Shallan from a romantic perspective.  Mostly he was just looking for a friend to cheer him up when he was depressed (a role Syl has largely taken with some sweet moments from Adolin).

Right now Kaladin doesn't seem especially interested in matters romantic.  That might change at some point, but for the immediate future I think he'll continue pouring himself 100% into Bridge 4 and ignoring any semblance of a personal life (notice how he doesn't have any personal hobbies, doesn't go out with friends unless they drag him out etc.).