[OB] Argent's "Secret Renarin WoB", a.k.a. The Page™

[natc]

1 minute ago, Leyrann said:

Huh. I didn't even know he used that. Figured he probably had a stash of Breaths stored away or something.

Using Breath to sustain himself was, to my knowledge, the primary reason he came to Roshar in the first place.

[Willow]

4 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Huh. I didn't even know he used that. Figured he probably had a stash of Breaths stored away or something.

I believe it's been said he's on Roshar specifically because Investiture is so easy to access here. Breath on Nalthis is powerful, but every human only gets one, while on Roshar a Highstorm with the power of innumerable breaths blows by every week, renewing everyone's Investiture storage containers, which he can empty without feeling guilty.

Edit: Oops, too slow.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Willow

[Leyrann]

But that does beg the question (sorry for going off-topic) wheter he can actually use Stormlight for Awakening as well...

[Willow]

2 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

But that does beg the question (sorry for going off-topic) wheter he can actually use Stormlight for Awakening as well...

I believe he hasn't figured that part out yet. But apparently it is possible. The fact that Investiture is the basis for all the magic in the Cosmere might be why Voidbinding and Surgebinding seem so similar, even though they're apparently designed by different gods. Or did Odium create Surgebinding as well? If he was the human god when they destroyed their world with Surgebinding (to try and get back to the topic).

Edited November 22, 2017 by Willow

[natc]

He's apparently tried, and hasn't figured it out, IIRC.

 

I imagine it shouldn't be impossible but . . . well science doesn't find the one way something works until you get over the thousand ways where it doesn't.

[Subvisual Haze]

I'm still confused why the Words of Radiance epigraph about Truthwatchers stated:

Quote

Now, as the Truthwatchers were esoteric in nature, their order being formed entirely of those who never spoke or wrote of what they did, in this lies frustration for those who would see their exceeding secrecy from the outside; they were not naturally inclined to explanation; and in the case of Corberon's disagreements, their silence was not a sign of exceeding abundance of disdain, but rather an exceeding abundance of tact.

Never writing down or speaking of what they did made sense if you assumed Truthwatchers were able to slightly glimpse the future (but then didn't share or write down their visions for fear of disrupting what they saw).  I don't really understand why they would be so secretive otherwise.

[KidWayne he/him]

46 minutes ago, Salkara said:

The bit that I always find interesting about the Voidbinding chart is that Void-versions of Bondsmith and Truthwatcher have no lines connecting to any of the surges.

I think it's interesting that those two are placed within an octagon hexagon instead of a circle like the other 8.

Edited November 22, 2017 by KidWayne
wrong shape

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

By the way can we name @ArgentUnmade of the 17th Shard? He's been positively evil tantalizing us with a page in WoK with a clue to Renarin, and THIS was the page. 

[Argent he/him]

6 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I'm still confused why the Words of Radiance epigraph about Truthwatchers stated:

Never writing down or speaking of what they did made sense if you assumed Truthwatchers were able to slightly glimpse the future (but then didn't share or write down their visions for fear of disrupting what they saw).  I don't really understand why they would be so secretive otherwise.

I like @FeatherWriter's hypothesis on this - that the Truthwatcher Resonance allows them to "see truths", i.e. not only detect lies but also know the underlying truths, and so the "exceeding abundance of tact" they display is their silence, not revealing what they only know because of their... a little invasive powers.

[KidWayne he/him]

37 minutes ago, Argent said:

Her original theory actually comes before my question.

This is kind of what I've been assuming - that he Surgebinds Progression and Voidbinds Illumination. His Regrowth looks identical to other instances of Regrowth we've seen, but the stained glass futuresight (Fortune?) panorama is entirely unlikely Shallan's Lightweaving - but it's also a very visual thing to do, which makes me think Illumination is involved. 

So what do you make of the Fused we see using Shallan-styled Illumination to steal the King's Drop? Is that voidbinding or surgebinding?

My head-cannon says that the Fused aren't using voidbinding, but surgebinding and that the Regals (and possibly Renarin) are using voidbinding.

[Subvisual Haze]

7 minutes ago, Argent said:

I like @FeatherWriter's hypothesis on this - that the Truthwatcher Resonance allows them to "see truths", i.e. not only detect lies but also know the underlying truths, and so the "exceeding abundance of tact" they display is their silence, not revealing what they only know because of their... a little invasive powers.

Oh cool, so sort of like how Renarin "knows" that Urithiru is one giant fabrial.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

3 minutes ago, KidWayne said:

So what do you make of the Fused we see using Shallan-styled Illumination to steal the King's Drop? Is that voidbinding or surgebinding?

My head-cannon says that the Fused aren't using voidbinding, but surgebinding and that the Regals (and possibly Renarin) are using voidbinding.

The Fused are using something a bit different to Surgebinding. Both Szeth and Kaladin say the Fused couldn't change speed as quickly as them, but were more graceful. I can assume the graceful is due to more experience (as exceptional as Szeth and Kaladin are, they have been doing this a few years, the Fused for centuries minimun). But the different acceleration isn't so easy to explain away.

Edited November 22, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[KidWayne he/him]

@Blightsong So what, in your opinion, does the double eye of the "Void-watcher" symbol indicate?

@WhiteLeeopard The difference in speed isn't that much of a problem for me. If you have to explain that, then I propose that it's a side-effect of the fact that they are using Odium's voidish investiture to power surgebinding.

[Aminar]

3 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

The Fused are using something a bit different to Surgebinding. Both Szeth and Kaladin say the Fused couldn't change speed as quickly as them, but were more graceful. I can assume the graceful is due to more experience (as exceptional as Szeth and Kaladin are, they have been doing this a few years, the Fused for centuries minimun). But the different acceleration isn't so easy to explain away.

Unless their version of binding uses a different gravity factor because it's From Another Planet! Dun dun dun. 

[Leyrann]

5 minutes ago, Aminar said:

Unless their version of binding uses a different gravity factor because it's From Another Planet! Dun dun dun. 

Wait.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

[The Sovereign he/him]

49 minutes ago, Argent said:

Her original theory actually comes before my question.

This is kind of what I've been assuming - that he Surgebinds Progression and Voidbinds Illumination. His Regrowth looks identical to other instances of Regrowth we've seen, but the stained glass futuresight (Fortune?) panorama is entirely unlikely Shallan's Lightweaving - but it's also a very visual thing to do, which makes me think Illumination is involved. 

I actually think the Stained glass foresight is a Resonance of the the powers mixing. It seems that they only hit Renarin when he is in the presence of a Highstorm or Everstorm. Also it should be noted that Renarin that doesn't seem to be doing it intentionally, I'd need to look at Oathbringer again when I get home but I believe that when it happens before his "confrontation" with Jasnah the sight sort of comes upon him rather than him doing anything to trigger it. 

@Argent, I think that you are right that he Surgebinds Progression and Voidbinds Illumination. I suspect that he would need Voidlight to use his Illumination powers.

[Leyrann]

Now I'm wondering wheter, at some point, the Highstorms will stop coming because of something Odium does, and then Renarin has to save everyone with his Voidbinding.

[Willow]

6 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Now I'm wondering wheter, at some point, the Highstorms will stop coming because of something Odium does, and then Renarin has to save everyone with his Voidbinding.

Isn't the Stormfather responsible for transferring stormlight from the Spiritual realm to the Physical realm? So if something were to happen to him... well. The Knights Radiant might have some problems.. We've seen that spren can be killed in various ways after all..

[Argent he/him]

19 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

I suspect that he would need Voidlight to use his Illumination powers.

This sounds reasonable, but he was Voidbinding (if this is, in fact, what's going on) weeks before the Everstorm was even created. And I don't think there is any foreshadowing about him having access to Voidlight at that time.

[gbazz4 he/him]

53 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

But that does beg the question (sorry for going off-topic) wheter he can actually use Stormlight for Awakening as well...

 

51 minutes ago, Willow said:

I believe he hasn't figured that part out yet. But apparently it is possible. The fact that Investiture is the basis for all the magic in the Cosmere might be why Voidbinding and Surgebinding seem so similar, even though they're apparently designed by different gods. Or did Odium create Surgebinding as well? If he was the human god when they destroyed their world with Surgebinding (to try and get back to the topic).

I believe Hoid does an awakening in the epilogue. He whispers words to a doll and sets it down and the doll starts walking. It was a way for him to coax a little girl out of her hiding place. So if Hoid can do an awakening (I presume through stormlight since he has been on the planet for a while) then it would seem likely to me that it is possible for Vasher/Zahel to figure out how to do an awakening using stormlight. 

[The Sovereign he/him]

3 minutes ago, Argent said:

This sounds reasonable, but he was Voidbinding (if this is, in fact, what's going on) weeks before the Everstorm was even created. And I don't think there is any foreshadowing about him having access to Voidlight at that time.

That is my point about his Foresight being a Resonance of his powers rather than it being his Illumination. We have never seen Renarin use his Illumination. He even directly acknowledges that he can't make it work. I guess my argument would be that he has never used his V-Illumination. 

I suspect that his Foresight is of Voidbinding but not a specific use of any of the V-Surges.

Edited November 22, 2017 by The Sovereign

[natc]

 

2 minutes ago, gbazz4 said:

 

I believe Hoid does an awakening in the epilogue. He whispers words to a doll and sets it down and the doll starts walking. It was a way for him to coax a little girl out of her hiding place. So if Hoid can do an awakening (I presume through stormlight since he has been on the planet for a while) then it would seem likely to me that it is possible for Vasher/Zahel to figure out how to do an awakening using stormlight. 

Hoid has Perfect Pitch, he almost certainly has breath to spare. Plus I wouldn't put it past him having developed the trick.

Just because you're on a planet with stormlight doesn't mean you have to use it for everything. Especially if you haven't figured out how.

[Willow]

8 minutes ago, gbazz4 said:

I believe Hoid does an awakening in the epilogue. He whispers words to a doll and sets it down and the doll starts walking. It was a way for him to coax a little girl out of her hiding place. So if Hoid can do an awakening (I presume through stormlight since he has been on the planet for a while) then it would seem likely to me that it is possible for Vasher/Zahel to figure out how to do an awakening using stormlight. 

Warbreaker spoilers:

Spoiler

Sure, but does Hoid use his Stormlight or simply his Breath? We know he has a lot of Breath, enough to reach the second Heightening, so 200 at least.

I don't think anyone has ever said it's impossible for Zahel to figure out how to Awaken with Stormlight, it's just that he hasn't actually managed it yet.

Edit:  @natc, you beat me to it again

Edited November 22, 2017 by Willow

[Yata he/him]

I believe Renarin has the standard Truthwatcher's Powers. Glys is Corrupted by Odium but this doesn't change the Spren's Power. Glys doesn't become a Voidspren Just for be' Enlighted.

Probably the whole Renarin got from this is a bit Shade of Odium Who allow him ti twist a bit his Surgebinding...mainly the Resonance.

Venli too has not bot voidbinding and Surgebinding (but It's closer than Renarin) as the Regals doesn't have Voidbinding

[Aminar]

38 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

That is my point about his Foresight being a Resonance of his powers rather than it being his Illumination. We have never seen Renarin use his Illumination. He even directly acknowledges that he can't make it work. I guess my argument would be that he has never used his V-Illumination. 

I suspect that his Foresight is of Voidbinding but not a specific use of any of the V-Surges.

He did use illumination at the end of Oathbringer. He used light to banish a -Stone thing that my migraine has wiped from my brain in favor of the names of Pokemon.- But we have no idea how or why it did what it did.