[OB] Kaladin and Jasnah as a couple

[Greywatch she/her]

3 minutes ago, Calthrop said:

No worries.  I edited my previous post to remove the word asexual.

Oh...! I can appreciate that; I just know there are quite a few ace cosmere fans around. Thank you!

[Salkara]

2 hours ago, Greywatch said:

There are plenty of characters Sanderson writes who don't get romantic partners

...

I really strongly disagree with the idea that romance is the way to connect to characters?

...

I really think she doesn't need [a romantic partner], and if Jasnah ends up with a man, I'll be really disappointed.

Alright, in parts to this doesn't take too long:

1. Please name a major character who doesn't get a partner and also does not end up dead (e.g. sorry Dox).
2. Are you disagreeing that readers connect to characters through emotion, that relationship are a good method of displaying emotions, or both?
3. No, she doesn't need one. Neither did a whole host of other characters, but they're better off for it.
   Spoiler

   Did Wayne really need to get frisky with a kandra? Did Marasi really need Allik? No, but they're both more fleshed out characters because of the emotions we get to see.

    I'm not saying that Jasnah will have a sappy love story. I highly doubt she will. However, she clearly has emotions in this area, based on her "some men" comment and the reaction to Amaram. Unless she pulls an Eshonai, there's going to be some sort of resolution to this part of her character. It will probably involve her having feelings for another character in some capacity, and since this is a Sanderson series, the ending is probably going to be happy (again, unless she ends up dead).

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1 hour ago, RenegadeShroom said:

First off, I didn't claim that she wouldn't have a romance arc, or that it would ruin her as a character. I said that I find it extremely doubtful that she'll have a romance arc with a man. I'd be perfectly happy for her to have a romance with a woman, but the idea of Jasnah being involved with a man is... bizarre and strangely upsetting to even consider. In particular, because this "defrosting the ice queen" trope that I most often see being applied to Jasnah by Jasnadin shippers, really grosses me out. That's a bad trope, and I'd hate for Jasnah to have to undergo it.

Jasnah doesn't need a romantic storyline. And I'm in complete disagreement that a romantic arc, any romantic arc will necessarily make her better, at all. And romance isn't a requirement for relatability and emotion? Jasnah's not emotionless, like people seem to perceive her as, and you seem to be ignoring that one of the most powerful emotional moments in the series involving Jasnah was, as you pointed out, when she decided not to kill Renarin; which has absolutely nothing to do with romance. A character can be fleshed out entirely without romance, because romance is not a necessity for any given individual human being to be an interesting and fully fleshed out person. Strong emotions exist independent of romance! She can be a powerful character, who people connect to and like, through any number of interpersonal relationships and on her own.

All of that is especially relevant to female characters, especially ones like Jasnah, who has so far expressed absolutely zero interest in any romantic or sexual pursuits. There are people like this in real life, and it's not dull or uninteresting, it just is. Forcing a romance on Jasnah just for the sake of having her be in a romance would undermine a lot about her, in particular how absolutely refreshing it is to have a female character who has no interest in romance and who doesn't pursue it and isn't punished by the narrative for doing so. That goes double if she's aroace, and still applies if she's lesbian, for a number of reasons.

I'd also point out that what happened with other Cosmere characters when it comes to romance is not at all relevant to what will happen with Jasnah? She's not any of those characters, and Sazed is a very different person, in very different circumstances from Jasnah, and his feelings on romance aren't an indication of Jasnah's feelings on romance, because they're two different characters. 

First, the Jasnadin thing is mostly a joke because they're the most prominent unpaired characters of opposite sex. I don't think most of us are serious about it.

Second, "defrosting the ice queen" is not how I see a romantic arc happening with Jasnah. In all likelihood, I see the headman's axe headed toward any character she takes a fancy to, so it doesn't really matter if they're a guy or girl because they'll be dead.

Third, no she doesn't need a romantic arc. Many characters don't need one, but they end up getting one because it gives readers a chance to see the character deal with emotions they wouldn't otherwise experience.

Fourth, Jasnah has expressed almost no desire for a relationship, but we've also gotten only a handful of viewpoints for her. Every single main character in a Sanderson novel has had a romantic partner. If Jasnah survives to her book, I bet that she gets one as well.

Fifth, I'd argue that an author having a history of main characters getting a romantic partner by the end of a series (provided they survive) is very pertinent. I think even Jasnah would agree that past actions are the best data for predicting future actions.

[Greywatch she/her]

3 minutes ago, Salkara said:

Alright, in parts to this doesn't take too long:

1. Please name a major character who doesn't get a partner and also does not end up dead (e.g. sorry Dox).
2. Are you disagreeing that readers connect to characters through emotion, that relationship are a good method of displaying emotions, or both?
3. No, she doesn't need one. Neither did a whole host of other characters, but they're better off for it.

Why exclude dead characters? Is it because there are characters now dead who have fulfilling arcs without romance? Maybe Jasnah will be one of them. We could make a list of all characters, dead, alive, or even with a spouse, who don't have romance arcs. But I'll oblige: just to start, how about Shai? Galladon. Lightsong. 

I disagree with none of the options, and none of those options answer my point. I'll clarify. Romance is not the only route for connecting emotionally to characters. In fact, I can easily both enjoy romantic arcs and also hope that not all characters will have one. There are plenty of worthy emotions to explore outside of romance, and sometimes romance arcs are distracting to other plots that a character might have going on.

Maybe Jasnah will get a romance arc in a future book. But based on what we've been given in the three books, I'd think it'd go very much against the grain of what Brandon is setting up.

[FeatherWriter she/her]

Alright I kind of dipped my toes in this conversation before but didn't really try to answer it before. I'll put the tl;dr version at the top and it's this: I think the books indicate that Jasnah is clearly uninterested in romantic/sexual relationships with men for certain, and possibly all people. Beyond that, even if Jasnah was attracted to men (which I'm pretty sure she's not), she and Kaladin wouldn't be a good pair, regardless.

Jasnah's lack of interest in marriage/romance

So, Jasnah overall shows no interest towards relationships, but there's one in particular that stands out as characterizing. The first chapter of Words of Radiance has a conversation in which Jasnah reveals that she has set up a causal betrothal for Shallan and Adolin. It is within this that I draw most of my ideas of Jasnah's views on relationships from. You should really just read the whole scene to get the full picture.

Jasnah has a great anxiety about this plan, actually, and the narration made this very clear. Jasnah "takes a deep breath" and Shallan thinks she's "reluctant to explain." Shallan notes the "uncharacteristic anxiety" in Jasnah as she brings this up. When Shallan seems excited about the prospect, Jasnah "visibly relaxes" but also seems very confused that Shallan isn't upset with her. And by the end of the conversation, Jasnah sort of shakes her head and moves on, still not entirely sure what just happened.

I think what we see of this plan is that Jasnah assumes that Shallan would have reacted in a similar manner as Jasnah would have. Jasnah specifically says "I had wondered, however, if you'd be offended." Jasnah asks because the idea of being set up in an arranged marriage would have offended her.

Jasnah believed that the causal with Adolin was an unfortunate idea that Shallan was going to have to grit her teeth and suffer through because it the only way to secure an alliance to protect Shallan's family. I imagine that Jasnah had all manner of arguments ready to try to help Shallan see that accepting was the best way even though, obviously, a marriage is not something anyone could enjoy!

Jasnah knows that being forced to deign to marry someone would be an offensive situation to her, especially if she hadn't been consulted beforehand. When Shallan doesn't react the same way, instead seeming excited by the opportunity and prospect, Jasnah is baffled.

Jasnah discusses "the restriction of freedom implicit in a marriage" and feels that Shallan would be upset about being locked into a betrothal after she was "free of her father." Jasnah seems to feel as though marriage is something that men try to force women into, and it's something Jasnah wants no part of. Jasnah brushes off Amaram in her prologue, with her narration indicating that she thinks the match doesn't work. Though Jasnah's spat with Amaram in Oathbringer shows that her distaste for Amaram personally is not insignificant, but I think Jasnah has a distaste for the idea of marriage as well.

Which brings us to one of the most telling quotes, bolding mine:

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“It doesn’t bother you at all?” Jasnah said. “The idea of being beholden to another, particularly a man?”

“It’s not like I’m being sold into slavery,” Shallan said with a laugh.

“No. I suppose not.” Jasnah shook herself, her poise returning.

-- WoR Ch. 1, Santhid

I believe this is the sort of dramatic irony of Shallan saying something that Jasnah actually does feel, that marriage is like being sold into slavery. And Jasnah just kind of has to laugh it off and say "oh, ha, right... that's not something that everything feels, huh?" I think Jasnah's disinterest and distaste for marriage stem from both a disinterest in being "tied down" into societal roles that she doesn't agree with and has no interest in. I believe this stems from an overall disinterest in romance and sexuality in general.

The quote above seems to indicate that even as the idea of marriage is something Jasnah dislikes, men in particular are even worse of an idea to her. Marriage? Bad. Marriage to a man? Worse. And at the heart of it, I think there's just an overall lack of romantic 

But, perhaps I'm misinterpreting or overinterpreting the passage to mean more than it should. Maybe Jasnah would show a romantic interest in a man someday. I still don't think it would be Kaladin. Let's go into that.

Jasnah's incompatibility with Kaladin

Kaladin and Jasnah's personalities don't mesh well, in my opinion. They are opposites in many ways, and not in an "opposites" attract kind of way. Their argument in Oathbringer indicates this to me, though I believe there is also sufficient evidence of their lack of compatibility through what we see of them individually as well.

Jasnah is a woman of contradictions, and even has a chapter named after it. 

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This was a re-creation of what she remembered, an interpretation that was not exact. Shallan was proud of it, as she’d captured Jasnah’s contradictions.

Contradictions. Those were what made people real. Jasnah exhausted, yet somehow still strong—stronger, even, because of the vulnerability she revealed. Jasnah terrified, yet also brave, for one allowed the other to exist. Jasnah overwhelmed, yet powerful.

-- WoR Ch. 78, Contradictions

Jasnah is a woman of logic, but also deep emotion. She is able to make difficult decisions, not because she doesn't care, but rather because she cares deeply, and knows exactly what she'll do to protect the things she cares about. Her sense of personal morality isn't based on any outside influence, but is the result of her own personal conscience alone and is accountable to only herself. She cares about her family, and justifies the use of spies and assassins to protect them, even from within. She justifies killing criminals with Soulcasting in Kharbranth after tempting them to attack her, even though she knows this will present a moral and philosophical conundrum for Shallan. Upon realizing some of the impetus for Desolations, she immediately decides that the best course of action is to track down the Heralds and kill them (though she is persuaded away from this eventually).

Quote

“Must someone, some unseen thing, declare what is right for it to be right? I believe that my own morality—which answers only to my heart—is more sure and true than the morality of those who do right only because they fear retribution.”

-- WoK Ch. 29, Errorgance

Jasnah answers to her own mind alone and does not hesitate when she has decided on a plan. She sees what needs to be done, she does it. This can make her seem cold and callous to outside observers, but it's simply an expression of efficiency and dedication to a task. Jasnah doesn't hedge, and she doesn't waste time questioning her decisions after she's made them. This gets her into trouble occasionally, as it can make her inflexible, but it is nevertheless effective in accomplishing things.

Kaladin is an entirely different story.

Kaladin constantly struggles with internal conflict and questioning his own personal morality. He is pulled between desires like revenge or his hatred for lighteyes and his conscience trying to tell him what the right thing to do is. His decisions in WoK about helping Bridge 4 and, later, saving Dalinar are examples of this kind of tortured conflict, in which Kaladin asks himself throughout the lead-up if this is what he should really be doing. In some cases he's still questioning himself as he's doing things.

The longest form of this is the plot to assassinate Elhokar, in which Kaladin initially thinks he's making the hard choice and doing what must be done, before later going back and deciding to save Elhokar instead. Throughout, Kaladin tries to convince himself he knows what's right, but he never really feels sure. 

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Fool, Kaladin thought to himself. You change your mind now? After all of this? What are you doing? (...)

Kaladin stopped, exhausted, leg screaming, and leaned against the wall. Shouldn’t this be easier? Now that he’d made the decision, shouldn’t he be focused, confident, energized? He felt none of that. He felt wrung out, confused, and uncertain.

(...)

Storms, he didn’t even really know why he was doing this. The king’s sincerity was part of it, but that wasn’t the true reason, not deep down. He knew this was what he should do, but why? The thought of the king dying for no good reason made him sick. It reminded him of what had been done to Tien.

But that wasn’t the full reason either. Storms, he wasn’t making any sense, not even to himself.

-- WoR Ch. 82, For Glory Lit

While Jasnah is assured of her actions and morality, Kaladin desperately desires something that can give him a sense of absolute right and wrong. He's tired of being confused about what he should do and wishes to find something that would let him act without guilt. However, his personal standards for success and right are extremely high; he feels he must save everyone, he has to do the perfect thing and has difficulty taking actions that would hurt someone, even for the greater good.

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“So what’s the difference, Syl? What is the difference between Dalinar attacking the parshmen, and these parshmen conquering that city?”

“I don’t know,” she said softly.

“And why was it worse for me to let Elhokar be killed for his injustices than it was for me to actively kill parshmen on the Shattered Plains?”

“One is wrong. I mean, it just feels wrong. Both do, I guess.”

“Except one nearly broke my bond, while the other didn’t. The bond isn’t about what’s right and wrong, is it, Syl. It’s about what you see as right and wrong.”

“What we see,” she corrected. “And about oaths. You swore to protect Elhokar. Tell me that during your time planning to betray Elhokar, you didn’t—deep down—think you were doing something wrong.”

“Fine. But it’s still about perception.” Kaladin let the winds blow him, feeling a pit open in his belly. “Storms, I’d hoped . . . I’d hoped you could tell me, give me an absolute right. For once, I’d like my moral code not to come with a list of exceptions at the end.”

-- OB Ch. 31, Demands of the Storm

This comes to a head in Oathbringer, when Kaladin is unable to fully see the Singers as enemies because of his time among them. He sees their point of view, thinks that they're just trying to live, and cannot convince himself that they should die. It paralyzes him in Part 3, but it also brings him into direct conflict with Jasnah in Part 2, when Jasnah is ready to make the hard decision, but Kaladin can't live with the consequences of that action. Later in the book, Kaladin feels that his fourth oath has something to do with not protecting Dalinar or letting him die, and Kaladin's unable to bring himself to say it. 

These extreme differences in morality are always going to make it difficult for Kaladin and Jasnah to see eye to eye. They may both be good people, but they come at it in very different ways. Much of Jasnah's thinking is abhorrent to Kaladin, while she sees his point of view as naive and simplistic. Those aren't foundations upon which a budding romance blossoms. Those are the kinds of different points of view that make enemies, or strained allies in the best cases. I think Jasnah and Kaladin will eventually learn to see the value in each other's points of view, but I doubt either of them will ever like it.

Even aside from matters of morality, Kaladin and Jasnah have little in common with one another. Kaladin is highly social, at his most comfortable when he's leading groups of men and working with them as a cohesive team. From his old spearman squad, to the groups of slaves he bonded with, to Bridge 4, Kaladin has an easy, instant connection with people and leads them well.

Jasnah, on the other hand, is a solitary creature. Keeping in contact with her colleagues over spanreed is enough social interaction for her and though she is polite and well mannered, she's more at ease on her own studying at a desk than in a crowd of people. She has difficulty working with even a single ward and admits to Shallan that she feels she isn't good at it. 

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Jasnah rubbed her temples. “Storms. This is why I never take wards.”

“Because they give you so much trouble.”

“Because I’m bad at it. I have scientific evidence of that fact, and you are but the latest experiment.” Jasnah shooed her away, rubbing her temples.

-- OB Ch. 44, The Bright Side

Kaladin has many difficulties with lighteyes, and even if he is starting to get over some of his hangups, he still has a great distrust and dislike for them. Jasnah is about as lighteyed as one can get, especially by the end of Oathbringer, where she has been named queen. Jasnah and Kaladin share no common interests. She is a consummate academic and renowned historian. He is a soldier and bodyguard, with surgeon's training as well. On a very basic level, there's an age difference between them, with Kaladin at 20 and Jasnah at 35.

Conclusion

I'll cut myself off there, if only because this silly treatise is already far, far too long, but that's a rundown of the way that I see things standing right now. I read a lot of evidence for Jasnah being both aromantic and asexual and I think she and Kaladin have an extreme set of distances that make them unfit as a romantic couple. I have yet to see a reasoning behind the Jasnadin ship that seemed compelling or convincing to me, and if we're working off the "compulsive heterosexual romance" card, I'll admit that idea got tossed around for Shalladin and was one of the reasons I hated that ship as well. Brandon's already had several romances in Stormlight so far and I believe there's probably another one coming down the line at some point for Kaladin, given how often Syl talks about how he needs someone, and the flashbacks with Tarah showing that Kaladin very much is not aromantic. But for me, Jasnah's not really an option to fill that role. 

If anyone actually read this whole thing, you deserve a cookie. I always have far too many thoughts. Now... someone stop me from going over to the Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin thread and doing something similar...

[AubreyWrites she/her]

@Ookla the Feathered you make an interesting and compelling argument. I enjoyed reading it. I don't really have strong feelings on the subject either way and but I could definitely be swayed by your logic

[FuzzyWordsmith]

45 minutes ago, Ookla the Feathered said:

If anyone actually read this whole thing, you deserve a cookie. I always have far too many thoughts. Now... someone stop me from going over to the Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin thread and doing something similar...

I feel like everyone in that thread would very much enjoy that, so I would actually like to ask that you DO, on behalf of the thread.

[Dreamstorm]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Feathered said:

.......

 

Very well thought out!  The one thing I will say, is that while Jasnah definitely seems to find marriage the equivalent to shackles, that doesn't necessarily mean she is aromantic/asexual.  One can be opposed to marriage without being opposed to romance.  (I know others find her to be asexual or at least not attracted to men.  It's one of the things I'm looking out for in my reread of the series I'm doing now.)  I agree with you about Kaladin not being a good romantic match.  I do find it hilarious to consider, especially as Jasnah would school Kaladin intellectually (IMO) which he is not used to (love him, but he does think he's sooo smart ) and the prospect of them fighting side-by-side and really learning to play their powers off each other is tantalizing.  (The idea of any Radiant couple who learns how to really sync their powers in battle is on my SA bucket list!) 

I second @FuzzyWordsmith that a counterargument on the ASK thread that has this level of in-depth analysis would be so much appreciated!

[ZenBossanova]

One thing I haven't noticed being mentioned, is that if Jasnah is Queen, then she will have to think about continuing her family line. 

I have no argument against those who point out her animus against men, or her asexuality, or who point out romance would be unnecessary for her. But continuing her family line/dynasty will be something she doesn't take lightly. 

An alternative here might be young Gavinor or any children Adolin & Shallan might have. 

[Razrback16]

On 11/23/2017 at 6:27 PM, Harbour said:

No one answered me yet. Can we consider it as weird flirting?

Ill change it from subtle to more straightforward.

 

Hah, ya I enjoyed that brief exchange. It was interesting - on one hand they were both being quite serious about arguing their points - on the other hand, it did make me wonder if on some level Jasnah was being semi-flirtatious, actively enjoying the interaction from Kaladin - and I admittedly enjoyed the idea given how emotionless and seemingly asexual Jasnah had seemed so far in the series. I don't think Kaladin was intending to be flirtatious there, I think he was just being typical, pi$$ed off Kaladin (he is my favorite character by far).   But I think Jasnah may have liked that - the fact that he was angry, showing it in a meeting with other leaders, going toe to toe with her, and at the same time not trying to strong arm her the way Amaram seemed to be in the course of the backstory of the book - I suspect when we get Jasnah's book, we'll find out why she is the way she is when it comes to relationships / emotions with other people.

We obviously didn't get a lot of information from OB specifically between Kal & Jasnah because their interactions were so brief. But as someone else in the thread mentioned, it was interesting to me that Jasnah asked Shallan quite early on what "she thought of The Windrunner" and that was before Jasnah caught Shallan sketching him while she was supposed to be taking meeting minutes. Then much later in the story when Elhokar is transformed "into a tall, stately Alethi woman with features reminiscent of Jasnah's." in response to which, "Kaladin nodded approvingly" I found that noteworthy as well. Shallan makes an interesting observation during OB as well, noting that she basically couldn't figure Jasnah out - on one hand she rejected all male suitors, and that she'd had some pretty good looking and powerful guys try to court her and had rejected all of them; while on the other hand, Jasnah was always immaculate in her appearance - always adopting the latest hair styles, and using the best makeup, etc.

I personally don't think she's gay or asexual (through the first two books I thought she was asexual, but OB changed my mind).

We see briefly from Jasnah's pov in OB at one point where she thinks to herself about how emotional she is behind her eyes and doesn't show it. She really isn't just the logical robot she tries to come off as outwardly, and after the interaction with Amaram, that made me believe that she simply had something happen to her when she was younger that completely turned her off to relationships and emotional attachment. That doesn't mean it's permanent though - in all my years reading books and watching movies, throughout the course of a story, you see characters change. Sometimes fairly significantly. So while we don't know what's going to happen, I do look forward to more Kaladin / Jasnah interaction. I would enjoy reading a relationship develop between them depending on how Jasnah is written moving forward.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Razrback16
Grammar

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Asexual doesn't mean emotionless and having strong emotions doesn't mean you can't be asexual. And I think Jasnah is so meticulous about her appearance because she knows how people pay attention to that, and respect people (especially women) who take pains with their appearance. It's all about how she wants to be perceived.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

2 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

Asexual doesn't mean emotionless and having strong emotions doesn't mean you can't be asexual. And I think Jasnah is so meticulous about her appearance because she knows how people pay attention to that, and respect people (especially women) who take pains with their appearance. It's all about how she wants to be perceived.

This so much. I see so many people all the time use that quote from Shallan (not even from Jasnah herself, mind you; what does Shallan know of why Jasnah dresses nice?) to argue against Jasnah being asexual. Just because she cares about her appearance does not mean she can't be asexual. I know many heterosexual people who don't give a damnation about their appearance and I know many asexual people who care a lot about their appearance. Plus, Jasnah herself has told Shallan all about power and how it's all based on appearance and acting like you are confident when you really aren't. This is basically Jasnah's biggest character point-she puts on an outward mask that doesn't necessarily reflect how she feels/thinks in order to get people to think a certain way about her. Even if she doesn't really care about how she looks, she knows that other people care and expect a royal to look pretty and be caught up with the fashion trends, so she does these things. 

Plus, I think it's really shallow to assume that she avoids relationships because she was either raped, sexually abused, or just turned off from the idea of relationships by how much of a douchebag Amaram was. Depending on when this possible event happened (we don't even know if it did), I'd be very surprised if Jasnah hasn't at least come to accept what happened to her and move on. If it did happen, she would never forget it obviously, but many rape/sexual abuse victims can and do go on to have healthy relationships later on in their lives. 

[The Harlem Worldhoppers he/him]

My impressions with Jasnah were not necessarily that she was asexual, rather she has a shopping list of priorities consisting of what she needs to do to save Roshar..... then way, way down on the bottom of that list is pursuing a relationship. 

[Alderant she/her]

Wait...someone posted a Jasnahdin board? How did I not know about this? I guess I'll edit once I've read everything....

Okay. I'm not really going to say much since it seems the conversation is generally biased, old, and I don't want to start an argument. In my opinion, Jasnah doesn't have to be asexual to be independent; Jasnah doesn't have to be lesbian to be strong; Jasnah doesn't have to stay single just to stay who she is. I think that by saying that she shouldn't have a relationship or whatever, you're doing the character a disservice. There are many reasons why I think Jasnahdin could work, but this doesn't seem the place to mention them. But I do agree that romance is nowhere near the top of her priorities.

@Razrback16 Nice reply. I missed yours on my read through of the thread, but well analyzed and my thoughts line up with yours.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Alderant

[Razrback16]

7 hours ago, Alderant said:

Nice reply. I missed yours on my read through of the thread, but well analyzed and my thoughts line up with yours.

Thank you sir, I appreciate it, and enjoyed reading your comments as well.

[Juanaton he/him]

On 11/16/2017 at 9:28 AM, Aminar said:

I beg to differ. There are boundaries with age that should not be crossed in regards to age that don't go away until at least 25. Kal is 19.

I feel like you may be comparing earth years (25) to Rosharan years (19). Since a year on Roshar is 500 days long we would consider Kal to be a little over 26.

That said, I've felt that the ages used for the characters work better before the conversion in describing their maturity levels...Kal acts more like 19 than 26, Dalinar is old enough he should have real problems with fighting instead of being able to do a Last Clap, and so on.

[Calderis he/him]

31 minutes ago, Juanaton said:

I feel like you may be comparing earth years (25) to Rosharan years (19). Since a year on Roshar is 500 days long we would consider Kal to be a little over 26.

They have 500 20 hour days and an hour is 0.9636 of hours.

A Rosharan year is only 1.1 of ours. Kaladin in basically 21

Edited July 25, 2018 by Calderis

[StrikerEZ he/him]

10 hours ago, Alderant said:

Wait...someone posted a Jasnahdin board? How did I not know about this? I guess I'll edit once I've read everything....

Okay. I'm not really going to say much since it seems the conversation is generally biased, old, and I don't want to start an argument. In my opinion, Jasnah doesn't have to be asexual to be independent; Jasnah doesn't have to be lesbian to be strong; Jasnah doesn't have to stay single just to stay who she is. I think that by saying that she shouldn't have a relationship or whatever, you're doing the character a disservice. There are many reasons why I think Jasnahdin could work, but this doesn't seem the place to mention them. But I do agree that romance is nowhere near the top of her priorities.

@Razrback16 Nice reply. I missed yours on my read through of the thread, but well analyzed and my thoughts line up with yours.

I know that I don't speak for everyone in this thread who's said that they think Jasnah could be asexual/lesbian, but I feel like you're kind of misrepresting what we're trying to say. I'm not saying Jasnah has to be asexual to be independent, I'm saying that she can be independent and asexual. I'm not saying Jasnah has to be lesbian to be strong, I'm saying that she can be strong and lesbian. I definitely I don't speak for everyone on this part, but I think Jasnah could go many ways: 1) heterosexual and disinterested in relationships; 2) homosexual and disinterested in relationships; or 3) asexual all together. None of this has any impact on her independence or the strength of her character, in my opinion. It's simply a part of who she is. 

I'd actually love to hear why you think Jasnadin could work. If you've read my posts, you've obviously seen I lean more towards her being asexual, but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to change my mind.

[Subvisual Haze]

I've made other arguments on why I think Jasnah+Kaladin will/could end up together, but I think the most important one is simple genre tropes.  

The Stormlight Archives is a much polished and improved form of an earlier "Way of Kings Prime", several early chapters of which are available on Brandon's website.  Now, he's obviously changed a lot since that draft, but I do think it can give us some clues for the wider direction of the story/characters.  In that story Kaladin was still the main hero, but he went by the name Merin and he was a much more boring, stereotypical farm-boy.  Many proto-versions of the other main characters are present but the two most important for this topic though: Shallan has been replaced by an unimportant red haired stand-in who was not a main story character at all, and Jasnah seems pretty much identical to her current form.  Still beautiful, composed, analytical, and appearing emotionally uncaring on the surface but implied to care deep down (particularly about Renarin).  In their first meeting Jasnah seems dismissive and distrusting of farmboy Merin, while Merin's first impression of her is as an emotionless ice queen.

Now, our generic farmboy fantasy protagonist is basically required to have a blooming love interest, that's just the trope.  Brandon in particular seems to love writing in a romance plot for all his main characters.  And with Shallan absent in WOK Prime, Jasnah was the only other female main character!  Add in that Jasnah is a Princess, and she has disagreeable first encounter with Merin, and all signs point to Farmboy+Princess slowly blooming romance arc.

While Kaladin's character has obviously evolved a lot from his Merin prototype, I still think he's on the slow eventual path to falling in love with Jasnah.  I actually wonder if the Shallan-Adolin-Kaladin love triangle was added in just to give Kaladin someone to briefly pursue before Jasnah more fully joined the main cast of characters.  The fact Kaladin+Jasnah were disagreeable to each other in their first real interaction in Oathbringer is actually a positive indicator, it's basically setting up the usual RomCom arc of 2 people who start being slightly annoyed by each other, then evolve ever closer as they learn more about each other.  I think this is significant because both Jasnah and Kaladin are very internally focused characters who often seem severe and uncaring to others who don't know them well.

[Alderant she/her]

13 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I know that I don't speak for everyone in this thread who's said that they think Jasnah could be asexual/lesbian, but I feel like you're kind of misrepresting what we're trying to say. I'm not saying Jasnah has to be asexual to be independent, I'm saying that she can be independent and asexual. I'm not saying Jasnah has to be lesbian to be strong, I'm saying that she can be strong and lesbian. I definitely I don't speak for everyone on this part, but I think Jasnah could go many ways: 1) heterosexual and disinterested in relationships; 2) homosexual and disinterested in relationships; or 3) asexual all together. None of this has any impact on her independence or the strength of her character, in my opinion. It's simply a part of who she is. 

I'd actually love to hear why you think Jasnadin could work. If you've read my posts, you've obviously seen I lean more towards her being asexual, but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to change my mind.

I would love to go into this more, but I know some people feel strongly about this so I will state what follows is my own beliefs based on what I've seen, since this is a very thus-far underdeveloped character and we as yet have a lot to learn about her. First, let me explain that my comment before speaks more to the idea that many people have expressed the feeling, not just in relationship to Jasnah, but to strong female characters in general, that a strong, independent female character cannot or should not have a romantic relationship and/or interest in a man, as though having an interest in a man or relationship with one somehow makes her lesser or weaker. That is more of the backbone of my point--that she can, just like you pointed out about asexuality, be strong and have interest in a man.

Second, understand I come from a very character-development influenced background, so to start off, I want to lay down a specific fact: Jasnah, though she isn't treated as a main character now, is a main character. Main characters have a lot of development and places they need to go--they don't just enter the story fully formed, because if they did then the story wouldn't progress; they would be flat, unchanging characters. We see this trend as the books progress of Jasnah being given more and more time, of being let more and more into her psyche. It stands to reason therefore that Jasnah will continue to be more developed the longer the series goes on, much like Renarin.

Granted, it's been a while since I read OB, so take this with a grain of salt, but one of the many (not pointing at you exclusively, but comments I have seen about her in general over the years) comments I have seen leveled at her, even in this thread, is that she is "fine the way she is." Another is that because she doesn't show any romantic tendencies during her scenes (and even displays some antagonism toward the idea of marriage) is an equivocal analysis that she must either be A.) asexual (no interest in sex) or B.) lesbian (only interested in women).

From what I've seen of her, I see no reason why she has to be a character that doesn't have or want any relationship of any sort. Further, I feel that a relationship would be a great way to showcase development of her character--generally, development is best shown in literature through juxtaposition and contrast. For example, the juxtaposition and contrast of Kaladin saving Elhokar versus Adolin murdering Sadeas, both with similar influences and reasons for their actions, serves a great way to contrast the great changes which Kaladin has gone through in Words of Radiance. Jasnah has often been depicted as a loner, solo act--she can hold her own: she's a top-class scholar, elite philosopher, knight radiant-in-training, and now a Queen to boot, and she's done that all pretty much by herself. That makes her pretty awesome, but it also means that she has to develop in other ways. So let's look at possible deficiencies her character has (you Jasnah worshippers, please don't shoot me for saying she has flaws ).

First, despite her intelligence, Jasnah is cold and impersonal. Multiple times throughout WoK she is demeaning to Shallan, in WoR she puts in motion a betrothal for Shallan without her permission, and in OB she is wholly ignorant of Shallan's change in life, expecting and demanding that Shallan drop back into the role she had previously filled, despite significant developments on her own.

Second, Jasnah is manipulative and controlling. She is the type who can accomplish any task for her own end goals--in many ways, she's Roshar's equivalent of an Aes Sedai, making the world dance to her strings and whims, whether they know it or not. The aforementioned betrothal could be seen as a manipulation of Shallan to tie a budding Radiant to her family, rather than olive branch of help. While I don't read it that way, it's not a difficult interpretation to make. We also know she privately hires assassins to eliminate threats to her family, without the consent or knowledge of that family, and isn't a stranger to the use of political bludgeons, very much in the same way that Ialai was for Sadeas, no matter who might be hurt by those bludgeons, so long as it keeps her family safe.

These are just two points, but I hope I've said enough to demonstrate that she has room for growth. And these things in and of themselves are of morally ambiguous nature.

So let me go into why I think a relationship for Jasnah would be good for her character development.

First, as I've mentioned, Jasnah is often portrayed as a loner, and when viewed through the lens of another character, is seen as cold, impersonal and intense. How do we develop this, see other sides of the woman? How do we have growth in an impersonal character? A relationship would both give us another lens into her character, a way to see Jasnah in a more intimate light, and to show us a Jasnah that is not always poised and in control, but one that has let her guard down a little bit.

Second, as Jasnah becomes more important to the story, she needs a foil--someone who is similar enough to her, but who can contrast to her, paint her changes subtle and distinct, but who doesn't wilt at the merest conflict. This, unfortunately, rules out a vast majority of our viewpoint Rosharans, including Navani, Dalinar, Renarin, and Shallan. We have seen very few people able to hold their ground against Jasnah, and a foil necessarily takes up screen time to portray the contrast, so foils are best suited to being primary or secondary viewpoint characters, but a relationship, especially with a viewpoint character such as Kaladin, would give us screen time to highlight those moments of contrast, much in the same way Adolin was able to do for Dalinar in WoK.

Third, just because Jasnah is portrayed as disliking being "beholden" to a man (via marriage--a line which could have been referring to Shallan's upbringing or Jasnah's own aversion to the idea) doesn't mean that Jasnah would be opposed to a relationship between equals, or rather someone that she sees as equal and who sees her the same, regardless of whether they are equal in intelligence, temperament, or abilities--Jasnah is a proud woman, and could never be with someone who could not accept her strengths, but in a way I also think this has to do with the idea that Jasnah would be frustrated by a man who wilted any time she stood her ground. Perhaps this is why we've never seen her interested in a man up until OB--all thus far had wanted to either dominate her, or couldn't stand up to her.

Now, let me move on to why I feel Kaladin would be a good match.

One of the main criticisms I see leveled at this relationship is the age difference. The idea that Jasnah and Kaladin couldn't be in a relationship because of difference in age is, frankly, absurd. I have met many people with an age gap between them, including a couple where the man was forty and the woman sixty. They'd been married for twenty years and were extremely happy. If that can happen in the real world, it could easily happen here.

Second, Jasnah and Kaladin are temperamentally similar. Both are internalizers--meaning they internalize their problems and thoughts, rather than deal with them externally. Both are headstrong. Both are also above average intellect, especially for their respective classes. Kaladin was shown being able to banty wit with Shallan in WoR, and held up to Jasnah in OB. Anyone else in that situation, getting that onslaught from Jasnah, would have been cowed, but Kaladin took it and fired it right back. On the surface, this seen could be seen as incompatibility, but on a deeper level, it shows that in a relationship scenario, Kaladin wouldn't be completely cowed when push came to shove. That is the kind of strength Jasnah would appreciate--and Kaladin's education means he would be closer to her intellectually than most men outside the ardentia, as is indicated by his understanding of Shallan's more scholarly ramblings.

Third, Jasnah and Kaladin make excellent foils for each other. They are alike enough to be compatible but different enough to highlight their contrasts. Where Jasnah is cold and impersonal, Kaladin is caring and familiar. Where Jasnah is evasive and manipulative, Kaladin is direct and forthright. Where Kaladin is conflicted and consumed by guilt, Jasnah is calm and understanding of the importance of her actions. Where Kaladin struggles with the need to save everyone, Jasnah knows the actions necessary and has the determination to lose what has to be lost. Their weakness highlight the other's strengths and vice versa.

Fourth, let's look at chemistry. We have very little to go off of here, but my first impression of their interactions together was that sparks were vivid. Jasnah, stoic Jasnah, smiled after her 'argument' with Kaladin. She was happy to have someone stand up to her and not back down. She shows an interest in Kaladin after meeting him, asking what Shallan thinks of the Windrunner and, yes, I'll even say displaying a tiny hint of irritation that Shallan was sketching him. It could be inferred that Jasnah was angry about Shallan thinking of someone other than Adolin, or that Shallan wasn't fulfilling her duties, but she cracks down unusually hard on Shallan after this. Further, it's implied in Kholinar (I think this was said already) that Elhokar was made to look like Jasnah, and Kaladin approved of the likeness.

Now, my proposal for a relationship between these two isn't a dithering, simpering romance--quite the opposite. I see these two as being able to be pillars of strength for each other, complementing each other's weaknesses and strengths, and helping, by virtue of their differences, each other to grow. Jasnah possesses the required level of callousness to help Kaladin learn that he needs to not care so much--the problem heretofore is that everyone tries to console him and be nice to him, to tell him he'll understand later. That's not what he needs--he needs logic, he needs to understand why he can't care. One of his most valuable lessons as a soldier was the logical "us and them". In reverse, Kaladin possesses the directness to not tolerate Jasnah's evasion, which gives him the capacity to penetrate the shells she's placed around herself.

And that was a really longwinded way of saying I'm a pretty big Jasnahdin fan. Actually, though I've gone at length about the virtues of Shalladin, I'm actually a much bigger Jasnahdin fan. Finally, I want to point to Subvisual Haze's comment below:

30 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

I've made other arguments on why I think Jasnah+Kaladin will/could end up together, but I think the most important one is simple genre tropes.  

The Stormlight Archives is a much polished and improved form of an earlier "Way of Kings Prime", several early chapters of which are available on Brandon's website.  Now, he's obviously changed a lot since that draft, but I do think it can give us some clues for the wider direction of the story/characters.  In that story Kaladin was still the main hero, but he went by the name Merin and he was a much more boring, stereotypical farm-boy.  Many proto-versions of the other main characters are present but the two most important for this topic though: Shallan has been replaced by an unimportant red haired stand-in who was not a main story character at all, and Jasnah seems pretty much identical to her current form.  Still beautiful, composed, analytical, and appearing emotionally uncaring on the surface but implied to care deep down (particularly about Renarin).  In their first meeting Jasnah seems dismissive and distrusting of farmboy Merin, while Merin's first impression of her is as an emotionless ice queen.

Now, our generic farmboy fantasy protagonist is basically required to have a blooming love interest, that's just the trope.  Brandon in particular seems to love writing in a romance plot for all his main characters.  And with Shallan absent in WOK Prime, Jasnah was the only other female main character!  Add in that Jasnah is a Princess, and she has disagreeable first encounter with Merin, and all signs point to Farmboy+Princess slowly blooming romance arc.

While Kaladin's character has obviously evolved a lot from his Merin prototype, I still think he's on the slow eventual path to falling in love with Jasnah.  I actually wonder if the Shallan-Adolin-Kaladin love triangle was added in just to give Kaladin someone to briefly pursue before Jasnah more fully joined the main cast of characters.  The fact Kaladin+Jasnah were disagreeable to each other in their first real interaction in Oathbringer is actually a positive indicator, it's basically setting up the usual RomCom arc of 2 people who start being slightly annoyed by each other, then evolve ever closer as they learn more about each other.  I think this is significant because both Jasnah and Kaladin are very internally focused characters who often seem severe and uncaring to others who don't know them well.

I did not know that was a thing. I haven't read Prime, but that's also an interesting indication of their potential for a relationship. Theirs would be a slow, cautious one, a meeting of equals and even if it didn't last, of friendship, but hopefully I've said enough to show that it's at least plausible.

[Razrback16]

Fantastic post Alderant -

Can't remember if it was this thread or another thread but I remember reading some theories on how some folks feel things will go in Book 4 - with Kaladin having found Gavinor, that is going to be a meaningful event obviously - Jasnah cares so much about her family and protecting them - it will likely mean a lot to her (and her mother) that Kaladin / his crew saved Gavinor and brought him back to his family and furthermore that because Jasnah is Queen now, there may be a push, either internally or externally for Kaladin to become closer and more involved with the Kholin family by potentially marrying into it with Jasnah - [quick side note: I saw a funny reference in another thread where someone likened Kaladin to "Stormlight Batman" because of not only his deeds, and the brooding, but the scene where Shallan looks at him up on the tower and he's referenced as a sentinel just watching and waiting to defend] - Kaladin, while originating as a darkeyes, has obviously moved up significantly in the world as Leader of the Wind Runner Radiants with Dalinar explaining to him that he now has a title and land, etc. He's basically regarded by those who know him as a "Professional Hero" (hah) at this point, making him an ideal candidate to marry into a high ranking family like the Kholins (not that he'd be seeking such a thing personally, but noteworthy, nonetheless).

Now I personally struggle to see Kaladin going along with a "political sham" type marriage - in such a scenario, I think he'll want things to develop a lot more on the emotional level first as he is an emotional person and will not want to be in a marriage that doesn't involve love and real feelings, and I do hope if things go that direction, that it's a slow moving process as I do believe the references to Tarah were for a reason - we're probably going to see her come back into the fold, so that'll be interesting to see if that becomes Kal's new "love triangle", although I do believe just the idea of the attempted "meshing" between Kaladin and Jasnah alone would sort of be like its own love triangle because it would be incredibly interesting and there'd be so much to follow, and to me, that's what would make it so enjoyable to read, particularly if it panned out in a positive manner by the end. As Alderant explained so succinctly and in great detail, both of these characters "have some issues" but they not only contrast well, they complement each other as well, and to me, that would make it a very enjoyable read for a romance angle interwoven into the main story.

Two areas where I think there's potential for good Jasnadin interaction would be:

1.) With Jasnah being Queen, one of the things I think she'll struggle with is dealing with her subjects - as Alderant mentioned, she tends to come off very cold and impersonal - this will likely not translate very well in certain situations with certain types of people - I suspect she'll end up being needful of Kaladin at least in some situations - his charisma and leadership qualities added to his reputation as the aforementioned "Professional Hero" who wants to help everyone could only help Jasnah and the Kholins simply by association alone, if not direct involvement

2.) Gavinor - Not saying it would happen for sure, but it's possible Kaladin may still have ongoing interaction with the little dude - he lost his dad in the battle for Kholinar so with how empathetic Kaladin is, I could easily see him spending time with the kid, which would mean he'd likely be in and around the palace near Jasnah, Navani, etc. paving the way for more potential interaction between the two of them.

And a quick note here on the age difference - I know to some people that seems to be a bother - to me, it's not even something I'd flinch at. They're both adults and to me, as someone who's been in my share of relationships, and now been with the same girl for over a decade, it just comes down to are the two people compatible on an emotional, intellectual, and sexual level. I'm 36, and I'd have no problem dating a girl in her early 20s as long as she didn't act like a kid, just as I'd date a girl who was up around 50 as long as I was attracted to her and had the aforementioned compatibility. Kaladin, while in his early 20s or whatever, certainly does not act like a kid - if we didn't know his age, based on his thought patterns, and his actions, I'd guess he was actually up around 30 so to me, the age difference is just honestly not even a blip on the radar as something to be concerned with. IMO, they mesh perfectly well on the intellectual level, the question will be can they mesh on the emotional level and sexual level (assuming Jasnah is indeed heterosexual).

Looking forward to seeing what B. Sanderson does with this. Wish Book 4 wasn't so far away!

 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

@Alderant Thank you for that amazing post! That is the type of stuff I love to see on this website. I actually really agree with a lot of your post, actually. I think that Jasnadin would be a good relationship, and the idea of Jasnah experiencing character growth through a relationship and having to open up to her partner actually sounds really cool. I personally don't think that a romantic relationship is absolutely necessary for this growth, however.

I could totally see a scenario where Kaladin and Jasnah become really close friends either through Kaladin being around a lot because of Gavinor, or simply because they're both very prominent Radiants and will probably be around each other a lot. This could lead to a romantic relationship between the two, and I feel that Kaladin would definitely be willing to give Jasnah more freedom than women are traditionally given in marriages, especially because of the example he had of his own mother's relationship with Lirin. 

Overall, I agree with most of your points. There are a few things I want to comment on, however.

3 hours ago, Alderant said:

First, let me explain that my comment before speaks more to the idea that many people have expressed the feeling, not just in relationship to Jasnah, but to strong female characters in general, that a strong, independent female character cannot or should not have a romantic relationship and/or interest in a man, as though having an interest in a man or relationship with one somehow makes her lesser or weaker. That is more of the backbone of my point--that she can, just like you pointed out about asexuality, be strong and have interest in a man.

I don't really have anything against this; in fact, I agree wholeheartedly! I thought of this point after I'd already posted, but then I forgot to go back and edit it in. I totally agree that it's possible for Jasnah, or any woman for that matter, to be in a relationship and still be strong and independent. I just didn't clarify that in my post.

3 hours ago, Alderant said:

First, despite her intelligence, Jasnah is cold and impersonal. Multiple times throughout WoK she is demeaning to Shallan, in WoR she puts in motion a betrothal for Shallan without her permission

3 hours ago, Alderant said:

Second, Jasnah is manipulative and controlling. She is the type who can accomplish any task for her own end goals--in many ways, she's Roshar's equivalent of an Aes Sedai, making the world dance to her strings and whims, whether they know it or not. The aforementioned betrothal could be seen as a manipulation of Shallan to tie a budding Radiant to her family, rather than olive branch of help.

You mentioned the point that Jasnah arranged this marriage both of these times, and maybe more, though I focused on these two, and focused on the fact that it was done without Shallan's permission-which is true. What you left out, however, was that Jasnah was sorry for doing this. Here's the passage where she tells Shallan of the betrothal. I've bolded the important parts.

Quote

Jasnah took a deep breath. She seemed reluctant to explain. “I have taken the initial steps in arranging for you to be betrothed to one of my cousins, son of my uncle Dalinar Kholin. The boy’s name is Adolin. He is handsome and well-acquainted with amiable discourse.”
“Betrothed?” Shallan said. “You’ve promised him my hand?”
“I have started the process,” Jasnah said, speaking with uncharacteristic anxiety. “Though at times he lacks foresight, Adolin has a good heart—as good as that of his father, who may be the best man I have ever known. He is considered Alethkar’s most eligible son, and my mother has long wanted him wed.”
“Betrothed,” Shallan repeated.
“Yes. Is that distressing?”
“It’s wonderful!” Shallan exclaimed, grabbing Jasnah’s arm more tightly. “So easy. If I’m married to someone so powerful . . . Storms! Nobody would dare touch us in Jah Keved. It would solve many of our problems. Brightness Jasnah, you’re a genius!”
Jasnah relaxed visibly. “Yes, well, it did seem a workable solution. I had wondered, however, if you’d be offended.”
“Why on the winds would I be offended?”
“Because of the restriction of freedom implicit in a marriage,” Jasnah said. “And if not that, because the offer was made without consulting you. I had to see if the possibility was even open first. It has proceeded further than I’d expected, as my mother has seized on the idea. Navani has . . . a tendency toward the overwhelming.”
Shallan had trouble imagining anyone overwhelming Jasnah. “Stormfather! You’re worried I’d be offended? Brightness, I spent my entire life locked in my father’s manor—I grew up assuming he’d pick my husband.”
“But you’re free of your father now.”
“Yes, and I was so perfectly wise in my own pursuit of relationships,” Shallan said. “The first man I chose was not only an ardent, but secretly an assassin.”
“It doesn’t bother you at all?” Jasnah said. “The idea of being beholden to another, particularly a man?”
“It’s not like I’m being sold into slavery,” Shallan said with a laugh.
“No. I suppose not.” Jasnah shook herself, her poise returning. “Well, I will let Navani know you are amenable to the engagement, and we should have a causal in place within the day.”

Thoughout this whole conversation, Jasnah makes several attempts to apologize, in the Jasnah way, for preparing the betrothal without Shallan's permission. She definitely felt bad about making this decision for Shallan, and assumes that Shallan will be mad or feel betrayed. She also reveals part of why she doesn't like marriage: the implicit nature of reduced freedom in a marriage.

Of course, like I've said, this doesn't necessarily stop Jasnah from having a relationship, as long as she makes the choice herself, is guaranteed to be able to keep her freedom, or deems it as politically necessary.

 

[Calderis he/him]

@Alderant thank you for that post. I also agree with a lot of your points.

I personally would prefer Jasnah stay unattached but that's more my own bias than anything else. Jasnah is the character I feel I relate to the most in the Cosmere. 

I agree that she only appears cold from the outside. Jasnah is a character who I see has very very strong emotions and her apparent lack thereof is her own means of control. She keeps herself on an exceptionally short leash, and in many ways attempts to ignore emotions out of fear of being overwhelmed.

My main objections to most suggestions that people have a of a relationship between them is that it's either purely political, which I don't believe Kaladin would agree to, or it's framed as "who can we pair Jasnah up with because she has to be with someone." Which I happen to find repugnant. 

Because of Jasnah's emotional state, if she does go into a relationship, she would be very controlled... But she would be all in. It would need to be developed properly, but I wouldn't have an issue with it in itself. 

I just hate the idea of pairing her off because "she's available." 

[CrazyRioter she/her]

50 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Alderant thank you for that post. I also agree with a lot of your points.

I personally would prefer Jasnah stay unattached but that's more my own bias than anything else. Jasnah is the character I feel I relate to the most in the Cosmere. 

I agree that she only appears cold from the outside. Jasnah is a character who I see has very very strong emotions and her apparent lack thereof is her own means of control. She keeps herself on an exceptionally short leash, and in many ways attempts to ignore emotions out of fear of being overwhelmed.

My main objections to most suggestions that people have a of a relationship between them is that it's either purely political, which I don't believe Kaladin would agree to, or it's framed as "who can we pair Jasnah up with because she has to be with someone." Which I happen to find repugnant. 

Because of Jasnah's emotional state, if she does go into a relationship, she would be very controlled... But she would be all in. It would need to be developed properly, but I wouldn't have an issue with it in itself. 

I just hate the idea of pairing her off because "she's available." 

I basically agree with all of this.

I don't think Jasnah needs to be paired off, and I on't think she'd be a good match for Kaladin.

[Angsos]

Since Gavinor now survived, is Jasnah still Queen or did she get demoted to regent?

[Arondell]

11 hours ago, Angsos said:

Since Gavinor now survived, is Jasnah still Queen or did she get demoted to regent?

Gavinor had already been recovered when they made the decision to make Jasnah queen.  He is mentioned when Dalinar initially broaches the subject with Adolin.  It was not spelled out but I would guess that as of the end of Oathbringer Gavinor is considered Jasnah's heir.