FuzzyWordsmith

@Diomedes Yes, it had a LOT of good arguments. It had more good arguments then bad ones. The problems is that everyone was ignoring them. But yes, if anyone wants to trawl through it and find the OSDD stuff, it was discussed at length there.

I am a psychology student, specializing in disorders and criminal psychology but also, medically speaking have actually gone through almost exactly what Shallan is going through as of OB. I do not believe Shallan has DID. That's not what it is. What she has is most likely Other Specified Dissociative Disorder (OSDD) type-1b. If you want to know more, here's a thing. The reason I'm so sure is because of deep personal experience that I don't really want to go into too much detail about. OSDD example 1 is either identity disturbance with less distinct parts than in Dissociative Identity Disorder (they cannot physically take executive control over the person's body, but strongly influence the person's thoughts and actions and amnesia is present), known as DDNOS-1a [7]:409, or distinct dissociative parts (alters or alternate identities) exist and can take executive control, but without amnesia, [5][6] known as DDNOS-1b. Read more: http://traumadissociation.com/osdd I might use this to say something, but I'm kinda scared after some experiences on the Locked Thread that Shall not be Named. I understand that Brandon wanted to make this a magical thing. But the problem is, by avoiding Hollywood DID, he managed to portray a very accurate representation of real OSDD. With one major exception. The treatment. The implication is that Shallan's actions in Oathbringer have been a positive step to recovery. The problem is that it is almost the complete opposite of the healthy treatment options for this condition. The chances are small, but I worry that someone reading Oathbringer with OSDD may recognize their own symptoms in Shallan, except they'll end up walking away with completely wrong cues based on the ending and presentation of Shallan's arc in OB. I'm very interested to know whether Brandon was aware of the existence of this condition. It's a long shot, but I might as well @PeterAhlstrom on the off chance he sees it and passes it along. I must admit, as someone who went through a very similar mental trial, it was very difficult to read most of the Shallan parts of Oathbringer. Especially the end. She inadvertently did all the things that professionals advocate NOT doing to treat the condition. Sorry for the rant. I hope this at least sheds some light on things.

So, I think I've officially burned out on this thread. And on forums in general. I'm not pointing any fingers or attempting to be disparaging. I just feel like what's happening is a lot of people talking AT each other instead of WITH each other. People seem to be predisposed to stating opinion as fact. I dunno, maybe I'm just stupid, but I feel like nothing's going anywhere.

So, a lot of Shadolin vs Shalladin. I'll just leave this little tidbit *cough*Kadolin*cough* here.

I'm pretty sure it was a joke XD

So, someone pointed me to this link, which is about as WoB as it gets. http://faq.brandonsanderson.com/node/253 Here's the last sentence of that bit, but I do recommend reading the whole thing. So, that suggests that stuff is going to happen regarding Sadeas. If it isn't resolved, than he is just going back on what he has said.

So, this really struck me. Because I feel very strongly that that is exactly what Shallan is doing on her wedding day. The marriage is not a formality to her, it seems like the marriage is when she makes the decision to spend the rest of her life with Adolin. Sorry if I didn't explain that very well.

So, I'm not going to comment on the rest of that post. However, as a member of said ilk, I'm kinda disturbed by that. The phrasing implies an element of division. Aren't we supposed to be a community as a whole? I mean no offense, nor am I attempting to defend or disparage anyone, I just feel that the general tone of the message implies a division, though I'm not sure who the "sides" are in that matter. I think that's what disturbs me the most. It seems to me like an "us vs them" moment.

Lift is ethnically Reshi, but was raised in a weird place, and spends most of her time in Makabaki regions. So I don't think heritage has anything to do with it.

I may be a horrible person for saying/thinking this. But it would be fascinating if Shallan was the one who killed Adolin. There are a few ways that might end up happening too. That would be a fun road to go down.

Isn't bacon kinda overrated? Just my take on it. I'll be honest, it makes me think a bit better of Lift.

I would love hanging out with Szeth. Certainly, I would much rather hang out with Szeth and Nightblood than I would with Adolin. But maybe I'm just weird.

So, we don't actually have a max range. We also know that dead blades can hold shape, so it makes sense that arrows could as well. In addition, shardbows are huge. You could probably get away with arrows the size of javelins. At that size, centre-mass is more likely than not to sever the spine. Headshots would also kill instantly, and we know that's possible with the regular shardbows. Also, we know that cutting a gemheart with a shardblade kills fused. Kaladin does it on the wall.

See, here's the beauty of it. You already have mundane shardbows. You just need arrows. The spren just needs to be an infinitely returning arrow. The reason I say this is that with plate, drawing the bow is no problem. The bow does not necessarily need to be made of spren. We see from Rock that it is perfectly possible to get a high degree of power and accuracy with what they already have. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

So, I would like to preface this by saying I acknowledge that your family members have been through a lot. I do not mean to offend in any way. However, I think some of you posts, particularly the bit in bold, are getting into the Fallacy of Relative Privation. Objectively speaking, there are such things as better or worse problems. However, on a person to person level, that's not really relevant at all. If a person goes through something "not as bad" but still ends up an emotional wreck, that should not be held against them. Similarly, if someone goes through something "worse" it should not be a mark against people who don't hold together as well. Everyone is different, and that does not make some people better or worse than others.

That stirs the pot quite a lot, doesn't it? A lot of people were REALLY sure it's Evi. Same for Honour. This makes that a lot less clear.

So, I do understand. But your phrasing, especially the bold bit can be seen as insulting by a great many people. And I get that you feel she is cringeworthy, but based on extensive analysis, we can conclude that Shallan suffers from a mental disorder known as OSDD. Most of your criticisms derive from the results of that disorder, but that can be seen as hurtful by people with similar issues. Also, while you may dislike her, she is very realistically written. Food for thought, I guess.

@Cenanin So, reachers are explorers. They are also called Lightspren. Timbre is female. She mentions her grandfather being killed, along with a lot of her people, by Knights Radiant. We know that she has chosen to bond a Listener for that reason. Also, I'm pretty sure we don't know enough about Rhythms to make assumptions. I think we have WoB that they're actually Spiritual, not Cognitive. Also, she does grant the Nahel Bond, because Venli is only able to bond her when she spoke the First Ideal, after which she gained the ability to draw stormlight. In addition, Eshonai was characterized as the Explorer in WoR. In addition, we know Willshapers were explorers. The context lend credence to the idea that Timbre is a Willshaper spren, like all reachers. There's more, but I would like to discuss something more personal. Self-confidence and certainty are all well and good, but without tact, it can seem a touch arrogant. Your posts in this thread have sounded a bit condescending in their delivery. At least the way I'm reading it, the unspoken implications in your posts seem to be that anyone who thinks differently from you is stupid. I apologize if this offends you, I do not mean to do so. But you are stating your opinions almost as fact, and it does come off as a bit rude. Discussion is all well and good, but I feel we should be civil about it.

So, @maxal I have a few comments, but I think this annotation from Mistborn says it best. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/142-the-well-of-ascension-annotations/#e2953 Brandon Sanderson Chapter Sixteen Vin in her room This first scene is a classical Brandon scene–a character studying, thinking, and exploring who they are in their own head. Some people find my narrative style–with the thoughts, the conclusions, and the debates in the head–to be a little slow. I can understand that, even if I don't agree. I like knowing my characters. A chapter like this really works for that, in my opinion. It seems to me that in too many books, you never really know a character's thoughts, feelings, and logic enough to understand why they do what they do. So, I spend time on those things. This scene is important for the decisions Vin makes about herself. She is not the type of person to second-guess herself. In a way, she shows some of the very things Tindwyl tries to get across to Elend later in the chapter. Vin encounters a problem, mulls over it, then comes to a firm decision to trust herself. So, I think this is the main point, emphasis mine. You keep making the point that you don't like the characters navel-gazing. The problem is that Brandon disagrees. Navel gazing is his narrative style. That's what he does. I think these quotes illustrate the problem. To use your examples, if you take the personal issues and navel-gazing out of the stories, they are completely different. The case is the same in the previous books. To some extent, the interactions are incidental. It's part of why some people are annoyed about the Shadolin storyline. Because it ultimately wasn't down to navel-gazing, but dependency on interaction with another character. I am curious to hear your thoughts on Sanderson's other works, because navel-gazing seems to be all anyone does, a lot of the time. It's his preferred style. I think this might just be an issue of personal taste, then. Because for a lot of people, the characters don't feel alive if they don't navel-gaze. For some people, hunting clues is why they read in the first place. I am not trying to demean your opinion in any way, and I am not trying to offend. I apologize if I have done so. But there are times when I feel like we're reading two Cosmeres.

I think this is a bit of a semantics thing. One might say that an object's cognitive aspect IS their spren. Or one might say spren ARE cognitive aspects given some more life.

Is it terribly self-absorbed for me to be sad that that thread went nowhere? If that is what you're referring to.

So much this. Have an upvote. It seems there are a lot of logical ways to draw the bow. So, I am convinced we know one of their oaths from WoB. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/222-words-of-radiance-houston-signing/#e5616 Questioner (paraphrased) Can you write an unknown Ideal [in my book]? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They are still rough so this might not be the exact wording but: "I will stand when others fall." Based on everything we know, and most strongly, based on Taln's character, I feel this is a Stoneward oath.

To be honest, this thread looks like it might become a war zone. But I think that's part of the fun. @Ookla the Toasted I have abstained from voting because I don't think any of them can be considered my least favourite. I also think this thread is better served without the poll, because that encourages more flexibility and discussion. I think the why is a lot more important than the who. That says, I'll throw my hat in the ring. I don't like Adolin. He's boring, and he's far too perfect and he gets handed everything on a silver platter. Also, his fanbase can be a bit....vocal. I also started not liking Lift. Not because she was too honest, or because she was weird. I didn't like her because I have known a lot of people like her who are very arrogant. Self-assured to an extremely grating degree. I disliked her enough that I didn't read Edgedancer despite owning Arcanum. She lost a lot of that in OB, and I immediately began liking her more. In fact, her segments and her interactions with Szeth is one of my favourite bits of OB. I also feel like Elhokar gets far too much hate. But I'm rambling a bit. My point is, this is far too difficult a question for me to answer simply with a poll. I appologize if I offend anyone with this post.

So, I love Dragonball, and a LOT of people hate it and are VERY vocal about hating it. I have always had a pet theory that how much you like DBZ, and really any Shonen anime is directly proportional to how in-tune you are with your inner child. I seem to find that the more grown-up you are, the more of an adult you are, the less you like that stuff. I'm not directing that at anyone specific, but it gets me thinking. Anyway, this I think is only applied to Bondsmiths and Windrunners, maybe Stonewards. Because we have a WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171-oathbringer-release-party/#e8220 Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] What's with Kaladin being special with his oaths that he explodes with power every time he says it? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That is a function of Windrunners being very close to Bondsmiths, which has certain effects. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Would other Windrunners also do that, as well? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yep. So the DBZ powerup is something that happens to those orders specifically. I say maybe Stonewards because they also share a surge with Bondsmiths. For exapmple, it never happens to Shallan. It doesn't really happen with Lift. So food for thought, I guess.

No need to be so harsh. It was a better ship than Siri/Susebron, at least. And I'll be honest, Syladin was probably a better ship than Shadolin, all things considered.