FuzzyWordsmith

I feel like everyone in that thread would very much enjoy that, so I would actually like to ask that you DO, on behalf of the thread.

This. This is the sort of thing I expect from Sanderson. Not a sappy "without you I fade" ending. This sort of thing. I now have some hope for the future. This is, after all, Brandon He-Bore-The-Fate-Of-The-World-On-His-Arms Sanderson. Excellent job realizing that chapter name.

So, I was going to do a post specifically about Renarin, but I realized there's more here to delve into. At the end of OB, Dalinar learns to read and write. This is an enormous change in everything about Vorin society. I guess this thread is to discuss what that, combined with female KR and squires, will do to Vorin, and ultimately, Rosharan culture. I'll start with this. I am SO happy for Renarin right now. Dalinar just showing up to a scholar's meeting was enough to not only boost Renarin's confidence, but also hush derisive voices. But now the freaking BLACKTHORN has started writing a book. By hand. I feel like this should at the very least shatter Renarin's apprehension about pursuing scholarship while still being a warrior. That was his main concern, balancing his interests and what he likes with what his father expects of him. If his father can learn to read and write, I feel that Renarin can finally live both lives he seems to want to lead. Jasnah, Dalinar, even Bridge four to some extent, think he has to choose one or the other, but he no longer has to. I cannnot express how happy it makes me that Renarin gets this chance. Alright, Renarin gushing over, what other repercussions do you think this is going to have on Roshar?

We might just be seeing different subtext here, but it is very apparent that Shallan not only still has feelings for Kaladin, she is not committing fully as Veil still wants Kaladin. In addition, she doesn't so much believe they are good together as she does that Adolin is necessary for her to keep her other alters in check. The Shallan side needs Adolin as an anchor to remain the dominant alt, and it is less them being good together as her being the perfect wife for him and him being the perfect anchor for her Shallan side. That is the problems. Also, there was the Chasm scene. That was a much more poignant and meaningful scene than any we've had for Shallan and Adolin.

If we are picking ship roles, can I be the captain's Chicken? I feel I have some of the necessary qualifications, and am willing to bring my own feathers.

I feel like his low durability is mitigated a LOT by Plate. Remember, the circumstances at the end of the book were rather unique. Normally, he goes into combat with all the gear, so I think it's not unreasonable for him to keep pace. For example, the Thaylen Shardbearer that he gave Maya to was able to help take down a thunderclast. That should count for something.

Could you please elaborate a bit more on the timing? I don't really have a timeline straight.

If we're talking what she needs, I think she needs a crash, like the one with Grund in Kholinar. It needs to hurt her and also the people around her. And I don't mean this to be mean or sadistic. The reason she needs this is to see that what she is doing isn't working, and she needs to actually start dealing with her issues instead of hiding from them. She needs to actively take steps to heal, by allowing herself the room to heal. She needs to accept that failure happens, and it is not the end. EDIT: @SLNC Beat me to it XD

If that is what Brandon is going for, than that's a bit disturbing that he thinks a teenage girl can realistically find True Love in the most potent form possible in one guy she's known for a few months. That is cheesy fairy-tail level storytelling, and I hope Sanderson is better than that.

Yeah, this makes me further not understand how anyone considered this a healthy conclusion. We literally see the proper way of handling this and people seem to completely ignore that and consider the ending a proper resolution. It makes no sense to me.

100% this. This is medically almost the opposite of what treating this condition looks like. Saying that a hubby makes everything better is like telling a critically depressed person it's OK to keep a loaded gun in the house.

So, as I have pointed out earlier in the thread, this is not how OSDD gets better, and we're fairly certain that's what Shallan has. If Sanderson has her get better in this way, that means he just didn't bother doing research, and that he let's his biases bleed too much into things. I still don't know how to feel about it. If this is the "happy ending" then I feel Sanderson has failed as an author. For anyone else, that would cause me to drop the author.

So, there is something that has been really really bugging me this whole thread. This conversation about Adolin possibly fitting as an Edgedancer. Would it be happening if Maya wasn't an Edgedancer blade/spren? Imagine a scenario where Maya's plot thread is identical, instead Maya is an Honorspren instead of a Cultivationspren. Or a Lightspren. In that case, would the thread go about determining if Adolin features characteristics of those orders? Arguments can be made. He protects those who cannot protect themselves, like that child he saves that everyone mentions. He is a carefree and irresponsible individual which matches the characterizations of the Willshapers. We have WoB that Willshapers would be OK with killing Sadeas like that. And so on. What I worry about this thread is if people are trying to make the evidence fit the theory as opposed to the other way around. I know the point will come up that Brandon wrote her to specifically be a Cultivationspren, but at that point it becomes an issue of Suspension of disbelief. Say he does qualify as an Edgedancer. So the Blade he wins in a duel just happens to be of the same order as the order he fits with? That is either very contrived, or an extremely strong hint at some overarching force of "fate" or "destiny" in the Cosmere. I guess my issue is that confirmation bias seems to be coming into play here, consciously or unconsciously. Even if it's not, even if he does become an Edgedancer, the fact that both the character and dead Blade, of all the types of dead Blades he could have won, end up matching seems to stretch Suspension of Disbelief for me.

Do we know this or has it been inferred? Not arguing, I just didn't realise we knew that much about it, As to infinite recycling, Brandon has said that entropy stands, meaning this conversion is not 100% efficient. As per this: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3544 yurisses You once said that Investiture follows its own version of the laws of thermodynamics. The first one is that Investiture is neither created nor destroyed. Is the second law of Investodynamics that the amount of corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere cannot decrease? Brandon Sanderson Basically, the idea is that there is a third item in the equations--matter, energy, and investiture. That's the basis of how they work. Entropy is not corrupted Investiture. The second law stands as is. However, there is a fourth law that relates to Adonalsium, which I'm not going to talk about at the moment. The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy can never decrease over time for an isolated system, that is, a system in which neither energy nor matter can enter nor leave. (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics) We so far have nothing that explicitly debunks the possibility of this.

So, there's a WoB that's got me thinking. I posted it in the we killed you thread, but I may as well cross post here. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1555 FirstSelector Was Cultivation close enough to when Odium got Honor, to know how to fight back? Brandon Sanderson Heheheheh. I would say yes. FirstSelector And Cultivation, is she-- Brandon Sanderson She is still there. FirstSelector Alive and kicking. Okay, you've said that before-- Brandon Sanderson She is alive and kicking. FirstSelector And she can probably know how to not turn her back to the-- Brandon Sanderson Well, I mean... She has learned from the experiences of others. The way Brandon responded, and the we. I have had this nagging feeling for a while, but this seems to solidify it. Did Cultivation help Rayse kill Tanavast? Because we know Tanavast was growing increasingly erratic near the end. We know that Rayse was already bound for a while before Tanavast was killed. We know Cultivation is willing to "prune" things not conducive to growth. I think it might be possible that because she thought Tanavast was doing more harm than good, she helped Rayse kill him. That would make him saying "We killed you" make a lot more sense if referring to Honor.

So, everyone is bringing up Hemalurgy. I have a question. Does Rayse even know Hemalurgy? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hemalurgy was specifically invented by Ruin, and Rayse has been stuck on Roshar for a long time. We have no indication that he's been to Scadrial in the past. We know it can be used off world, but you have to know how. Do we have any evidence that Rayse knows how to even use hemalurgy?

So, uh, that particular WoB made me think of something. (Link is here for the full one: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/36-arcanum-unbounded-chicago-signing/#e1555) The way Brandon responded, and the we. I have had this nagging feeling for a while, but this seems to solidify it. Did Cultivation help Rayse kill Tanavast? Because we know Tanavast was growing increasingly erratic near the end. We know that Rayse was already bound for a while before Tanavast was killed. We know Cultivation is willing to "prune" things not conducive to growth. I think it might be possible that because she thought Tanavast was doing more harm than good, she helped Rayse kill him. That would make him saying "We killed you" make a lot more sense if referring to Honor.

I don't think that would be a problem because the event horizon doesn't exist in the Spiritual Realm, where everything is one. We know Shards aren't as present in the Physical Realm. It should be within their powers to not be affected by the black hole's gravity. In addition, getting the Investiture out is mitigated by the Spiritual Realm. We know Shards do their business primarily there. If a Perpendicularity brings Investiture from Spiritual to Physical, the reverse should be possible. In that case, the Investiture never has to leave the event horizon. It can go straight from Physical to Spiritual. Finally, there's the most extreme case. If all the matter is converted to Investiture at once, the gravity disappears and there is no more event horizon.

Just as a tangential aside, but this thread just reached 666 posts, which I find hilarious, both because of the number and just the sheer size. We have outclassed the OB full book thread.

I get the impression that Shalladin shippers aren't the only ones who want Shadolin to end. I don't really care if Shalladin were to happen at this point, but I still think Shadolin might be better off ending for both their sakes. Shallan is clearly not ready for this, and Adolin could be spared a great deal of suffering.

In all fairness, we don't really have in-text evidence of Jasnah's preferences. That's why I feel like this is jumping the gun a bit. We know about her, but I'm not sure how well we know her. Her past as well. We have seen that Dalinar was a completely different person in the past, and learning about who he was has been just as important as knowing who he is. I believe we might run into something similar with Jasnah.

I agree with most of the post, but I don't think the bolded thing is entirely accurate. The feeling I'm getting is that people don't really want Shallan to end up with Kaladin either. Most fans of Kaladin actually feel he dodged a bullet. People seem to dislike the how more than the who. I'm not sure anyone wanted Shallan as she is in OB to pick Kaladin over Adolin.

So, a lot of people have expressed the notion that they would be disappointed if Jasnah ended up with someone romantically. I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure why. I think Jasnah seems like she's perfectly fine on her own. But two points. We don't actually know as much about her, and who she is as a person, as the rest of the main cast. We have a good idea, but we have mainly seen her in high stress situations, and from the eyes of other people. We also have no first hand accounts of her past. There may be stuff there that surprises us. It is also possible that there are things she is repressing in her viewpoint chapters. Second, I personally don't see anything wrong with her having a romantic partner of any gender, as long as it's written well. What I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't think any less of her, or be disappointed if she ends up in a well-written romantic relationship. Am I alone in that?

So, at this point, I still trust Sanderson as an author. However, if book four rolls around and it turns out that Shallan is fine, enjoying motherhood, in a stable, healthy happy relationship with Adolin, and is still a KR with no problems with her oaths, then I'm done. I'm still going to keep up if only because there are questions I want answered, but at that point it will not be because of the content, but inertia. I'm not saying it's going to happen. Like I said, I still trust him as an author. I just hope he doesn't let so much bias bleed into his work that a teenager getting married and having a baby magically solves major mental health issues.

Well, it's more about usable form. If it is currently in the form of matter, that means it isn't usable as Investiture. Like fossil fuels. They provide no useful energy on their own when they are matter, so you burn them to produce energy in a form that is useful. Same idea, except black holes instead of coal or oil.