Calderis he/him Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: I am sorry, the way she dispatched the would-be robbers by soulcasting leaves no room for her caring about them. Unless you want to assume she enjoyed it, she must have had little to no emotional envolvement. Which is what by Alethi values is the ideal state. Killing an enemy is good. Seeking combat is good. If anything, you should enjoy this, if you were a good Alethi. It may be unfeminine, but it is basically virtuous. Considering those men where the direct cause of her emotional outburst that made Shallan question her history... No, it was not emotionless. 4
+Oltux72 he/him Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 2 hours ago, Calderis said: Considering those men where the direct cause of her emotional outburst that made Shallan question her history... No, it was not emotionless. The conversation between Jasnah and Shallan in the palanquin and later their quarters? Exactly. But not pity or revulsion for killing them. It was a mixture of disgust and hatred. Again I am not arguing for Jasnah being cool and unemotional. She cares for her family and hates some people for reasons as yet unknown. And then she kills them. Without remorse. At the risk of repeating myself I am not arguing for her being without emotion. I am arguing for her having alien attitudes and a mature character. Just a very different character.
Calderis he/him Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) I suppose this is the heart of the disagreement then. As many conversations in discord about those killings in which I've taken part have shown... In my opinion, those men deserved what happened to them, and she has no reason to feel remorse. Her actions, as much as some people wish to demonize her for it and speak ill of her for it, were in my opinion completely justified. I'm used to people arguing for her lack of emotions, or her sociopathy, or other issues. I'm not saying that's what you're saying now... But I see nothing alien in her reasoning or methodology. Remorse and regret are reserved for those who are harmed accidently and should not have been harmed. None of those classifications apply to men willing to do what those men did repeatedly. Edited November 25, 2018 by Calderis 6
+Oltux72 he/him Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 8 hours ago, Calderis said: I suppose this is the heart of the disagreement then. As many conversations in discord about those killings in which I've taken part have shown... In my opinion, those men deserved what happened to them, and she has no reason to feel remorse. Her actions, as much as some people wish to demonize her for it and speak ill of her for it, were in my opinion completely justified. Now I have to protest. Are we discussing her ethics or her emotions and character? For the record, yes, I think her actions were justifiable. But you have to realize that this attitude is far from universal. Polls on the death penalty cannot be explained in any other way. Is it universal on Roshar? Clearly not, you could not explain Shallan's reaction, if that were the case. But, we have to look at the timing. It is unlikely that Jasnah is playing Batwoman (yes, I know, there are no bats on Roshar) every night and killing criminals unnoticed. No, she waited until the right moment to give Shallan a needed lesson. She coldly calculated those deaths. That she was , presumably, right to do so, does not alter the fact that she coldly calculated with the death of a few men (who had it coming). Again, that does not make her cold in other areas of life. It just makes her a killer in the way Navy captains of the 17th and 18th century hunting pirates and enemy ships were stone cold killers. Today that attitude is unusual among us (again: unusual, not unjustified - that is a different issue). Among Alethi, however, it is the cultural norm (probably still unusual - but the theoretical norm to strive for). And that is my main point. Attitudes are culturally influenced. You cannot conclude back from different interest and attitudes back to maturity or lack thereof by external benchmarks. 1
Vissy Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: And that is my main point. Attitudes are culturally influenced. You cannot conclude back from different interest and attitudes back to maturity or lack thereof by external benchmarks. What does your main point have to do with anything Calderis has argued for so far? He argues that there is nothing alien about Jasnah's attitudes. In fact, I personally know several people who would likely 100% agree with her actions. Unless you mean to argue that women in the modern world cannot value the same things Jasnah does? Is that what you want to argue? Edited November 25, 2018 by Vissy
NoiseSpren he/him Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 What about giving it new thread, like "Is Jasnah Alien?" or "Let's talk about one think from different angles perceiving it as one!!!" And leave this thread untouched by your (ok, inteligent) discussion. Have a picture for better day: 3
Calderis he/him Posted November 25, 2018 Posted November 25, 2018 5 hours ago, Oltux72 said: But, we have to look at the timing. Yes. We do. And the timing was something that says she'd thought about this for a while, and then her lessons with Shallan gave her an excuse to act on her feelings. We obviously aren't going to agree here.
animalia Posted December 28, 2018 Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) Ok. Interesting note. I just reread Words Of Radiance chapter 6. In it there is a bit where Jasnah tells Shallan, that she fears what she is trying to do is like stopping a storm by blowing harder. I never noted that bit before. But now with all the way people talk about Kaladin and how he tries to do that. I wonder if that bit wasn’t deliberate foreshadowing on Sanderson’s part. Edited December 28, 2018 by animalia 2
NoirPoint Posted December 28, 2018 Posted December 28, 2018 Kaladin needs someone happier. Maybe lift in a few years!
TequilaJack Posted December 28, 2018 Posted December 28, 2018 2 hours ago, NoirPoint said: Kaladin needs someone happier. Maybe lift in a few years! Isn't she 13...Surely not in a few years? 1
Solant he/him Posted December 28, 2018 Posted December 28, 2018 I'm indifferent really, but I am guessing he will end up back with Tarah, I'm guessing between the last third of book 5 and the beginning of book 6. It won't be a central plot in the story, but more of a reward for the character to find happiness after the ordeals of the first arc. I have no evidence to back this up aside from her slow introduction and some slight mentioning of her so far, and the fact that she is Urithiru but hasn't reconnected with him yet. It's a slow slow buildup. 2
equinox Posted December 28, 2018 Posted December 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Solant said: I'm indifferent really, but I am guessing he will end up back with Tarah, I'm guessing between the last third of book 5 and the beginning of book 6. It won't be a central plot in the story, but more of a reward for the character to find happiness after the ordeals of the first arc. I have no evidence to back this up aside from her slow introduction and some slight mentioning of her so far, and the fact that she is Urithiru but hasn't reconnected with him yet. It's a slow slow buildup. I would very much like that!
goody153 Posted December 28, 2018 Posted December 28, 2018 Syl is his Therapist. You don't date your therapist 4
TequilaJack Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 10 hours ago, goody153 said: Syl is his Therapist. You don't date your therapist You don't share a spiritual bond with your therapist either 3
CrazyRioter she/her Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 I personally don't think spren do romance, generally speaking, and I definitely don't read romance into the relationship between Kaladin and Syl. They are very close friends/honorary family. 3
old man moomba he/him Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 I'll have you know that my therapist is a Seon. Checkmate. 1
Solant he/him Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said: I personally don't think spren do romance, generally speaking, and I definitely don't read romance into the relationship between Kaladin and Syl. They are very close friends/honorary family. I agree with this. Their banter is almost reminiscent of close siblings to me. 1
TequilaJack Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 12 hours ago, NoiseSpren said: More sister-like, I think... 1 minute ago, Solant said: I agree with this. Their banter is almost reminiscent of close siblings to me. The part where she buys clothes and says she's really naked in a spren way...is as far as I go from away from being sibling talk. I don't buy the spren romance ether....but imo, she'd make the perfect gf for Kaladin. Connected spiritually and she's the perfect fun emotional counter to a brooding Kaladin. 1
Solant he/him Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 59 minutes ago, TequilaJack said: I don't buy the spren romance ether....but imo, she'd make the perfect gf for Kaladin. Connected spiritually and she's the perfect fun emotional counter to a brooding Kaladin I do agree on that point. The first time she appeared human sized in the PR I couldn't help but wonder where it was going, but as of now I'm convinced it's not going to happen. She's more like the angel on his shoulder whispering in his ear, making sure he does honorable things. Having a bond on the spiritual level, they are almost too close to be lovers, even if they could. It's the ultimate friend-zone. Sorry, Kal! 1
goody153 Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 Spren romance is kinda isn't a thing. Romance is bound to biological impulse which surprise the spren doesn't have. Besides it would KaladinxSyl would be like Rayse loving Odium(to be fair they do embrace the ideal but it would be romanticizing the ideal) 2 hours ago, TequilaJack said: You don't share a spiritual bond with your therapist either Fair point lol
TequilaJack Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 46 minutes ago, Solant said: It's the ultimate friend-zone. Sorry, Kal! Or a perfect wife...which in my very personal experience....is a paradox. So yeah! 2
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted December 29, 2018 Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) I think Syl is as close as Kal will come to a romance in the books. Sorry for the MB spoils, forgot this was just Stormlight. Spoiler As for Jasnah, you guys are shipping her with the wrong K. She will clearly end up in a long term on-again-off-again booty call with Kelsier, who will be totally smitten by her. Edited December 31, 2018 by SwordNimiForPresident 2
NoiseSpren he/him Posted December 30, 2018 Posted December 30, 2018 17 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: I think Syl is as close as Kal will come to a romance in the books. As for Jasnah, you guys are shipping her with the wrong K. She will clearly end up in a long term on-again-off-again booty call with Kelsier, who will be totally smitten by her. The Ego Battle (or The Personality Clash of you don't like the previous) would shatter Cosmere. 2
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