Toaster Retribution Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 So, we found out who the copy-cat killer is. It is Barry the Evil Spren (that is what I will call him until we get an official name)! There is a whole bunch of questions to be asked though: 1. Is Barry a random evil spren, or an Unmade? 2. Can it do something other than copycat-hurting others? What is its purpose? I have a feeling that the attacks are a side-effect and that Barrys main function is something else, probably something that storms up the magic in Urithiru (maybe allows Voidbringers or other Odiumspren to get in?) 3. Why did it watch Shallans theatre? Seems strange. Let's discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmithki Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) To #2, think of the effect it has if it's with a raiding group... Around double the effectiveness of any military group, especially for raiders who take low casualties. Edit: or for assassins who no longer have to kill thier target. Edited October 24, 2017 by Blacksmithki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Can I also drag in the yellow spren from Kaladin? Because I want to point out the differences between her and this one. She seems to be similar to other spren, maybe some minor differences (leading Listeners being the most obvious of course, but also the walking on stone etc), while this spren seems very different. Spren are pretty old (http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4258-questions-for-seattle-signing-1014/?page=5#comment-68628, bottom of the post) and have, it appears, changed to be similar to one of the Shards, or maybe a mix between shards - we know for certain that some spren are of Honor (I imagine honorspren being the most obvious of those), some are of Cultivation (Wyndle and his kind?) and some are a mix of the two. We also know there are Odiumspren. It seems obvious that the spren we saw in this chapter - if we can even call it a spren - is a pure Odiumspren. However, I would argue that the yellow spren, if it is influenced by Odium (I actually also saw a nice theory about them being from Cultivation recently), then it is a mix between Odium and at least one of the two other Shards, as this spren just doesn't seem Odium-like enough. Sorry for potentially derailing the thread in the third post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: So, we found out who the copy-cat killer is. It is Barry the Evil Spren (that is what I will call him until we get an official name)! There is a whole bunch of questions to be asked though: 1. Is Barry a random evil spren, or an Unmade? 2. Can it do something other than copycat-hurting others? What is its purpose? I have a feeling that the attacks are a side-effect and that Barrys main function is something else, probably something that storms up the magic in Urithiru (maybe allows Voidbringers or other Odiumspren to get in?) 3. Why did it watch Shallans theatre? Seems strange. Let's discuss! Why Barry? As a flash fan I am Offend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Quote Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die!” Could be, maybe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozndevl Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, Steeldancer said: Why Barry? As a flash fan I am Offend! I'm thinking Archer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 1. I vote for Barry being an Unmade or a Sleepless. It seems too human to be a simple spren. It also has a definite effect on the world like the other Unmade we have seen that cause visions at death or that cause the Thrill. I don't see how the death rattles serve Odium (unless the idea is to spread misinformation), but... 2. Barry seems to have a certain effect. His purpose with the copy-cat attacks is to breed suspicion and fear among people. The copy-cat attacks encourage people to distrust one another. First, the copy-cat attacks target innocent people for seemingly no reason (other than a resemblance to someone that the copy-cat victim likely didn't even know). Second, since the attacks mimic a real attack, it makes the attacker look like a liar when he/she insists that they only did the first attack and not the second. So, it combines the effect of having Jack the Ripper on the loose with the bonus of making those who do get caught look like mobsters who are lying about there involvement in subsequent attacks or covering something up. So, Barry seems to raise tensions, erode trust, and foster feelings of distrust and fear; as Yoda said, "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." 3. I suspect it watched Shallan's play because this showed off her skills which probably also highlighted her connection to the Cog. Realm. This must have attracted Barry like a moth to a flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker861 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I'm fairly certain Barry is a Midnight Essence based on this WoB. Quote Q: In the Stormlight Archive, there's a relationship of some sort between the Chasmfiends and the thunderclasts (Brandon generally agrees here). Is there a similar sort of relationship between white spines and the Midnight Essences? A: Yes, but it's a more tenuous one. The Midnight Essences imitate whatever's around them. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 @Seeker861 Excellent point. I'll see Barry = Midnight Essence as the second most plausible after Unmade. @Steeldancer I picked a name that didn't sound Unmade-y, without a thought about Barry Allen :-D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daishi5 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) I could go with one of the 10 deaths (or is it 9?) and this one is revenge? If there are 10 deaths, could they be 10 corrupted mirrors of the Heralds and revenge is a corruption of justice? Edit: Not just revenge, but the "eye for an eye" revenge seems like it would be an Odium style of corruption of an ideal. Edited October 24, 2017 by Daishi5 A little clarification of "revenge." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 50 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: I'm fairly certain Barry is a Midnight Essence based on this WoB. Awesome find. I had been leaning to something more like this recently (and I think I suggested Midnight Essence last week). I wonder if this is a recently released one or an old one that somehow survived? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker861 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, Daishi5 said: I could go with one of the 10 deaths (or is it 9?) and this one is revenge? If there are 10 deaths, could they be 10 corrupted mirrors of the Heralds and revenge is a corruption of justice? Edit: Not just revenge, but the "eye for an eye" revenge seems like it would be an Odium style of corruption of an ideal. Midnight Essence is one of the 10 Deaths I believe but I feel like its more of a twisting of Shalash's attributes. Instead of being creative its merely imitating. 3 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said: I had been leaning to something more like this recently (and I think I suggested Midnight Essence last week). I wonder if this is a recently released one or an old one that somehow survived? I bet its an old one that survived and that's why its alone. Unless it isn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: Midnight Essence is one of the 10 Deaths I believe but I feel like its more of a twisting of Shalash's attributes. Instead of being creative its merely imitating. From tWoK (Starfalls): Quote Dalinar stood still, sorting through that. “All who can fight are needed,” the woman said. “And all who have a desire to fight should be compelled to come to Alethela. Fighting, even this fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes a person. We can teach you so that it will not destroy you. Come to us.” "This" seems to imply that "this thing we just fought is one of the Ten Deaths" However: Quote The knight sniffed dismissively. “Voidbringers? These? No, this was Midnight Essence, though who released it is still a mystery.” She looked to the side, expression growing distant. “Harkaylain says the Desolation is close, and he is not often wrong. He—” This implies that "Midnight Essence" is pretty minor stuff... trivial even. Which seems a bit much for a plot that's going to take up most of the book, it seems. 9 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: I bet its an old one that survived and that's why its alone. Unless it isn't... If this is Midnight Essence, I think it would make more sense if it's an old one that has grown strong and smart. Shallan should ask Dalinar to check out his Midnight Essence vision again and ask for more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: I bet its an old one that survived and that's why its alone. Unless it isn't... How would it get into Urithiru though? Wasn't it protected against Voidbringers and such. So Barry would have been unable to get in, unless Urithirus defense has been broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker861 Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: How would it get into Urithiru though? Wasn't it protected against Voidbringers and such. So Barry would have been unable to get in, unless Urithirus defense has been broken. That is a good point one which I have no rebuttal for. I am now very interested to see where the murder storyline goes. 8 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said: Shallan should ask Dalinar to check out his Midnight Essence vision again and ask for more info Yes we definitely need this. Perhaps Shallan and Dalinar can work together to project his vision like a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: Midnight Essence is one of the 10 Deaths I believe. 1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said: How would it get into Urithiru though? 18 minutes ago, Seeker861 said: I bet its an old one that survived and that's why its alone. Unless it isn't... Potentially Relevant Information from the Coppermind. (Color Coded) Quote The Midnight Essence was a type of monster of some sort on Roshar that was tied to the Desolations, possibly as a sign that one was soon to occur. It was one of the Ten Deaths and fighting it changed a person. It was not considered by the Knights Radiant to be one of the Voidbringers, but it seems that someone had to release it from somewhere. Dalinar experienced them in his 12th vision. [...] The claws of the Midnight Essence were powerful enough to seriously damage Shardplate.[1] It was quite strong, able to burst right through the wall of a barn. As it hunted by smell, it could track people in the darkest night. They also often hunted as a pack. The Essence was seemingly impervious to fire. They were also swift, both while running and while fighting. They are one of the Ten Deaths. They are often pack animals(so this one may not be alone). The exact quote provided by kari-no-sugata mentions "who released it." Who, not what. Depending on the exact nature of "release," it could have spawned inside Urithiru(probably protected against) or it could have been brought in after summoning.(I highly doubt Urithiru will be like HP7 Hogwarts with a magical shield preventing the bad guys from even walking in. Not the nicest of plot devices to work with.) Either way, the fact is that it showed up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 I think in the past the Knights Radiant (Elsecallers especially) and Heralds were strong enough to evict an UnMade from squatting on the Cognitive Realm side of Urithuru. Sounds like a good section conclusion battle. Jasnah reappears at a critical moment and opens a portal to Shadesmar so our heroes can force the UnMade to move somewhere else and stop haunting their Radiant Fort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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