Jondesu Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Elenion said: I think Araris is using the old role-substitution ploy. Because the write-up confirms that Jon blocked an action, and accounting for Yitzi and I injuring each other we know that Jon wasn't blocked by another Hazekiller, that means Jon must have blocked Araris. But assuming Araris is an elim, he knows the roles and actions of all of his teammates, and so it would be easy for him to pretend to be a role of a teammate, and have knowledge of whom his teammate stole from. Even more specifically, I think the Thief has been working with the Elims and feeding them info. Or else maybe Araris is telling the truth, but Meta is an Elim and will back up his claim of stealing something even if he didn't. It'd be an easy claim to fake, since there's no proof that can be offered, unlike the Hazekill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) The Thief is strictly a neutral role, Elenion. My win condition is to survive to the end. Edit: Does a courier want to confess to making a PM with me? That's the only way I could have colluded with the elims, but nobody makes PMs with me, I'm notorious for ignoring them. Edit 2: I have 2 people that I've stolen from, so unless you think all 3 of us are elims, then you should reconsider. Both HH and Meta can confirm my role. Edited June 15, 2017 by Araris Valerian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondesu Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: The Thief is strictly a neutral role, Elenion. My win condition is to survive to the end. Edit: Does a courier want to confess to making a PM with me? That's the only way I could have colluded with the elims. As far as we know, our couriers are all dead. BrightnessRadiant was an Elim courier, though, and it's entirely possible she set one up, or Stick may have set one up between you and an Elim (Meta or HH, probably), not realizing your roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: The Thief is strictly a neutral role, Elenion. My win condition is to survive to the end. Edit: Does a courier want to confess to making a PM with me? That's the only way I could have colluded with the elims. The problem is that you were blocked and there was no elim kill. That suggests you're not a neutral. Edit: but I do see that my theory of a fellow elim being a thief is wrong. What likely happened is that Brightness made a PM at random, and the thief claimed, as many neutral players would in order to not be elim killed in the future. Edited June 15, 2017 by Elenion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, The Flash said: Furthermore, I would venture (ah lol accidental pun there) to say that if we kill Jondesu, and he turns out to be evil, that there is a high likelihood that Yitzi2 is too. One thing earlier that got my attention was when I was desperate for a PM with a villager, yitzi promptly offered himself up. I was very tired at the time, so I gave a blegh response, but it sticks out to me as weird. I generally want PMs because I'm better at catching elims when I have PMs with them. That said, I might as well tell you: I was the one who gave you that first pewter vial (I would presume it was the first; it was before the first assassination attempt), and you can actually check that I did not vote the day you received it, for precisely that reason (note that giving vials during the day is instead of voting). @Araris Valerian why did you only steal those two nights? Edited June 15, 2017 by Yitzi2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said: I generally want PMs because I'm better at catching elims when I have PMs with them. That said, I might as well tell you: I was the one who gave you that first pewter vial (I would presume it was the first; it was before the first assassination attempt), and you can actually check that I did not vote the day you received it, for precisely that reason (note that giving vials during the day is instead of voting). Hm. Well then. Thank you for passing that to me. Canceling all suspicions on Yitzi, I wouldn't have survived that elim attack without that vial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Nobody else had items... Here are my targets: Night 1: Meta Night 2: Brightness Radiant Night 3: HH Night 4: Jondesu Night 5: Meta And I just realized my orders have been off by a cycle in my GM PM. Sorry for any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 You didn't target anyone night 0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: Nobody else had items... Here are my targets: Night 1: Meta Night 2: Brightness Radiant Night 3: HH Night 4: Jondesu Night 5: Meta And I just realized my orders have been off by a cycle in my GM PM. Sorry for any confusion. This is why I trust this guy. I do NOT trust Jondesu. And between the two, I would rather lynch Jondesu. Why would araris lie about this and ask for confirmation from two people? Edited June 15, 2017 by The Flash Clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 I would like to hear what both of them have to say before making a final decision...but tentatively Araris Jondesu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 I honestly don't remember why I didn't steal night 0. That would have been the best time to grab a spike from somebody :/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seonid Posted June 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Yitzi2 said: This is very suspicious, you know. Can you at least tell us if you're waiting for something specific? Also, question for @Seonid: If multiple hazekillers target a single individual, are they all injured, or just one of them? If multiple Hazekillers target a single individual, one of them will be chosen at random to be injured. The rest will not be. 1 hour ago, Yitzi2 said: @Metacognition can you confirm this? @Seonid Also, if A hazekills B, B hazekills C, and C hazekills D, am I correct in my assumption that A would therefore block B, so C would be unblocked, so D would be blocked? ... that's convoluted... But correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Now the important thing is this: If araris is truly the thief, then Jondesu targeted someone else. My action last night (trying to see if araris was the coinshot) went through. Whose action was blocked if it wasn't Araris? Gosh I wish I still had tin. Edited June 15, 2017 by The Flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Seonid said: If multiple Hazekillers target a single individual, one of them will be chosen at random to be injured. The rest will not be. ... that's convoluted... But correct. So that means that the number of injured hazekillers plus the number of blocked non-hazekillers will always be an even number. Ergo, some non-hazekiller was blocked. (I'm counting a hazekiller tanking a spike action or sending in the elim kill as a non-hazekiller here, of course.) 2 minutes ago, The Flash said: Now the important thing is this: If araris is truly the thief, then Jondesu targeted someone else. My action last night (trying to see if araris was the coinshot) went through. Whose action was blocked if it wasn't Araris? If Jondesu is an elim (and if he's lying about targeting Araris he'd pretty much have to be), it could be that he blocked the elim that did send in the kill in order to try to achieve a mislynch by claiming to have targeted Araris. Edited June 15, 2017 by Yitzi2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, Yitzi2 said: So that means that the number of injured hazekillers plus the number of blocked non-hazekillers will always be an even number. Ergo, some non-hazekiller was blocked. If Jondesu is an elim (and if he's lying about targeting Araris he'd pretty much have to be), it could be that he blocked the elim that did send in the kill in order to try to achieve a mislynch by claiming to have targeted Araris. But WHY? The elims have been weird this whole game. Why all the convolutedness? Isn't their goal to take us out? Would it not be more to their benefit to take us out every single night? Idek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Just now, The Flash said: But WHY? The elims have been weird this whole game. Why all the convolutedness? Isn't their goal to take us out? Would it not be more to their benefit to take us out every single night? Idek. Their goal is to take us out before we take them out. So if they think that skipping the kill will set us back enough through mislynches, it can be a viable play. When the game is over, we can look at the elim doc and see what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said: Their goal is to take us out before we take them out. So if they think that skipping the kill will set us back enough through mislynches, it can be a viable play. When the game is over, we can look at the elim doc and see what happened. Ok then. At the moment, I think double confirmation from @Hemalurgic_Headshot and @Metacognition would be fantastic. Yay for excitement! Edit. Ok Jondesu says he acted on the idea that Elenion proposed that either he or Araris were evil. Awfully convenient if Jondesu turns out to be an elim, huh? Especially as they seemed to be teaming up on Araris. Edited June 15, 2017 by The Flash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 As I see it, there are four explanations for the events last night. From most to least likely in my opinion, they are: 1. Jon blocked the elim kill. Results: Jon village, Araris evil, Thief working with the elims 2. Jon blocked somebody else and no elim kill. Results: Jon evil (lying about Araris), Araris neutral Thief 3. Elim!Jon blocks own teammate, not Araris. Results: Jon evil and lying about Araris, Araris neutral Thief 4. Jon and Araris both evil Results: one if the two would be bussed, the other would become trusted. Not wise, IMO, and I really doubt the elims would do that. Therefore, if we lynch Araris and he's evil, then Jon is almost certainly village. If we lynch Araris and he's a Thief, Jon is almost certainly evil. If we lynch Jon and he's village, Araris is almost certainly evil. If we lynch Jon and he's evil, Araris is almost certainly village. The good news: between today and tomorrow, we're practically guaranteed to lynch an active elim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, Elenion said: As I see it, there are four explanations for the events last night. From most to least likely in my opinion, they are: 1. Jon blocked the elim kill. Results: Jon village, Araris evil, Thief working with the elims 2. Jon blocked somebody else and no elim kill. Results: Jon evil (lying about Araris), Araris neutral Thief 3. Elim!Jon blocks own teammate, not Araris. Results: Jon evil and lying about Araris, Araris neutral Thief 4. Jon and Araris both evil Results: one if the two would be bussed, the other would become trusted. Not wise, IMO, and I really doubt the elims would do that. Therefore, if we lynch Araris and he's evil, then Jon is almost certainly village. If we lynch Araris and he's a Thief, Jon is almost certainly evil. If we lynch Jon and he's village, Araris is almost certainly evil. If we lynch Jon and he's evil, Araris is almost certainly village. The good news: between today and tomorrow, we're practically guaranteed to lynch an active elim. I would like to hold off on commenting on these matters until we hear for or against Araris' claims from HH and Meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 The thing that bothers me about this situation is I'm the only person that really stands to lose anything from it. If I die, I cannot win the game. But if Jondesu dies, regardless of his alignment, he can still win. So from that perspective, it makes more sense to lynch Jondesu first. I'm somewhat worried that we won't hear from Meta, since he hasn't been online since Tuesday. HH has been online, so he at least should be able to confirm that I'm a thief, if he gets over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenion Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Hold on, brain wave: if Brightness had made a PM between a Thief and the elims, it would have closed upon Brightness' death, leaving the elims in the dark about the Thief's most recent actions, which Araris knows about. That makes me pretty sure Araris is the real deal, meaning that Jon is lying to us. @Seonid To make sure, a Hazekiller can block a Thief and would become injured from it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yitzi2 Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 Also, @Jondesu is it true that during night 4 you had no items to be stolen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seonid Posted June 15, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Elenion said: @Seonid To make sure, a Hazekiller can block a Thief and would become injured from it, right? Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudjumper Posted June 15, 2017 Report Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Araris(1): Jondesu Jondesu(4): Flash, El, Yitzi, Cloud I'm tentative to vote Jondesu because I've always believed him to be village. However, I've also believed that Araris is a thief for quite some time as well because of his ghostliness. I don't think Araris is lying, and there's really no point in voting for someone else because they'll never get lynched today anyways, so Jondesu Edited June 15, 2017 by cloudjumper Edits and stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droughtbringer Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Because I am joining back in, and attempting to do something slightly productive, I will vote on Jondesu. Thoughts: Don't have much, practically everything that I had to say was already said by someone else as I was reading through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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