Quick Fix Game 23: You don't want to Play this Game.

[Yitzi2]

Just now, Ecthelion III said:

Which means it's vastly more important to know if someone is a non-Librarian than a Librarian. If we find out someone is a Librarian, they're not any more likely to be a Hushlander, but if we find out someone is a non-Librarian, it's extremely likely that they're a Freeworlder. Unfortunately, it's more imperative to find the bad guys, not the good guys.

(Color for purely discussion posts)

If we can get a complete list of Librarians (this is assuming librarian detection is automatic, not a 1/cycle scan), we get to know all the non-Librarians as well.

Also, the bolded statement is not true.  They are still more likely to be Freeworlders than Hushlanders, but are more likely to be Hushlanders than they would be if their Librarian-ness were not known.

[Ecthelion III he/him]

Ah! I was under the impression that it was a 1-cycle scan. If all the Librarians know all the other Librarians from the start, your point is a lot more valid.

What I meant to say was If we find out someone is a Librarian, they're not any more likely to be a Hushlander than a Freeworlder. (Meaning, they're less likely to be a Hushlander and more likely to be a Freeworlder, like you said in the second sentence of your second paragraph.

[Yitzi2]

Yeah, if it's a 1-cycle scan, Freeworlder Librarians should indicate to trusted individuals what they know (or to untrusted individuals, and let someone know to whom they gave their role info), but not be too open until they have a lot of info to share.

@A Joe in the Bush Is it a 1-cycle scan, or automatically known?

[Droughtbringer]

I've noticed that @Elbereth hasn't really been saying much in the thread...

So this is my encouragement to come say something! I also understand that you are GMing a game that looks like it take a lot of time and effort, but I have an idea of how much time and effort it takes, I'm GMing one that is practically the same game as that one, so I think you should be able to spend some time and come join us.
 

Also does anyone else have any suspicions? I have already stated mine above, and would like to get some ideas in my head before I end up heading off to bed. 

---

And that is an interesting idea... @A Joe in the Bush Is it a scan role or a hey you know this thing role? 

[queensteph she/her]

If I'm not mistaken, the librarians could literally all be good. Although I think that would kinda defeat the purpose of Joe putting them in the game and I'm pretty positive he'd make at least one of them evil since he said he was looking forward to Librarian Hushlanders shenanigans. But it could be a possibility still. We can't rely on knowledge of who is and who isn't a librarian too much. Just my thoughts on it.

Edit:

@DroughtBringer I believe Elbereth was dealing with finals and said she'd be active after today.

Edited May 12, 2017 by queensteph

[Yitzi2]

Early-game suspicions are not really my strength.

If I'm not mistaken, the librarians could literally all be good. Although I think that would kinda defeat the purpose of Joe putting them in the game and I'm pretty positive he'd make at least one of them evil since he said he was looking forward to Librarian Hushlanders shenanigans. But it could be a possibility still. We can't rely on knowledge of who is and who isn't a librarian too much. Just my thoughts on it.

They could all be good; it's a 1 in 16 chance that will happen.  Of course, in such case there probably won't be very many Librarians.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Yitzi2

[Droughtbringer]

2 minutes ago, queensteph said:

If I'm not mistaken, the librarians could literally all be good. Although I think that would kinda defeat the purpose of Joe putting them in the game and I'm pretty positive he'd make at least one of them evil since he said he was looking forward to Librarian Hushlanders shenanigans. But it could be a possibility still. We can't rely on knowledge of who is and who isn't a librarian too much. Just my thoughts on it.

This is Joe we are talking about, he could quite possibly have just made everyone a Librarian just to watch the shenanigans, or only made one person a Librarian just to confuse them. This could end badly Interestingly. 

Finals...Pff who cares about those?

[Droughtbringer]

44 minutes ago, Yitzi2 said:

They could all be good; it's a 1 in 16 chance that will happen.  Of course, in such case there probably won't be very many Librarians.

Joe would do this literally just because he wanted to. He is that type of GM...there is a reason this game is titled "You don't want to play this"

[Herowannabe he/him]

Herb had been planning on eating that Shem fellow, but then someone went and threw a wedding! And the one thing in the world that is tastier than people is cake. Herb had barely been able to wait for the Bride and Groom to cut a piece of cake and smash it into each other's faces before he gobbled the whole thing down. It would have been most rude to eat the wedding cake before they had cut it, after all. 

After that he had promptly taken a nap, and had then awoken to hear the conversation going on around him. Herb decided to interject. 

"Um, yes. Hello? If I might say a word or two about the Librarians in our midst," he rumbled politely. "It is my opinion that the main advantage of knowing who the other librarians comes not from trying to lynch them right away, but rather it gives you an idea of who to watch. If I were a librarian, I would quietly watch the other librarians closely. Who do they protect? Who do they try to lynch? Who is trying to protect/lynch them? That's the kind of information that- once a Hushlander is found- will allow you to deduce who their hushlander companions are.

"Also,  Droughtbringer  just let slip that he is a Librarian, or he is intentionally trying to trick us into thinking he's a librarian.

"Also, he looks tasty. I say we eat him."

[Droughtbringer]

2 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

"Also,  Droughtbringer  just let slip that he is a Librarian, or he is intentionally trying to trick us into thinking he's a librarian.

How...?

[Herowannabe he/him]

1 hour ago, DroughtBringer said:

This is Joe we are talking about, he could quite possibly have just made everyone a Librarian just to watch the shenanigans, or only made one person a Librarian just to confuse them. This could end badly Interestingly. 

Finals...Pff who cares about those?

You'd have no reason to wonder if everybody was a librarian if you weren't a librarian yourself. I notice that your short list of possible GM-trolling-with-the-librarian-role-scenarios didn't include the possibility that nobody is a librarian. 

Hence my deduction. Either you're a librarian or you want us to think you are for some reason. 

Edit: of course, this all depends on whether or not the librarians start the game knowing who each other are. If they did, then obviously my decuction would be stood on its head. But I don't think so- I was always under the impression that the Librarian was a watered down scanning role. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Herowannabe

[queensteph she/her]

1 hour ago, DroughtBringer said:

This is Joe we are talking about, he could quite possibly have just made everyone a Librarian just to watch the shenanigans, or only made one person a Librarian just to confuse them. This could end badly Interestingly. 

Finals...Pff who cares about those?

I think hero meant this, because it looks like it could mean that you are a librarian.

Herowannabe It's not a lot to go off of, especially since we have JUST stated that all of the librarians could be village.

so why vote for him, just because you believe he revealed he's a librarian?

 

Edit

ninja'd by hero oh well

When proposing theories it's good to base them off of no personal experiences, which I believe is what Drought did here. So that you don't know whether he really is a librarian or not. Either way, weird that you voted on him just for that reason.

Edited May 12, 2017 by queensteph

[Droughtbringer]

4 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

You'd have no reason to wonder if everybody was a librarian if you weren't a librarian yourself. I notice that your short list of possible GM-trolling-with-the-librarian-role-scenarios didn't include the possibility that nobody is a librarian. 

Hence my deduction. Either you're a librarian or you want us to think you are for some reason.

I don't see much reason for there to be no one being a librarian. It wouldn't create any of the confusion that Joe thrives off of.

Scenario 1: All Librarians
We all start scanning people like crazy, and the first person we scan is revealed to be a librarian, then we scan someone that, if person A is an elim, is likely to be an elim as well through there interactions. Based off of this info we all build our own elim teams in our head, and we end up believing it quite a bit. Chaos ensues.

Scenario 2: No Librarians
We all start being like Librarians do this! Don't do this! Give me a book! And no one does anything, because if someone were to say that they were a librarian cause they could be scanned by another librarian and proven wrong, probably lynched.

Scenario 3: One Librarian
We all start looking for one person to come forward, and this one person is looking around can't find any librarians, and is lead off of the course of the elims, and tries really hard to find someone but is dead before they do anything. Even better they announce to the thread that the best guess for an Elim is not a librarian, and they escape the lynch thanks to that.

Scenario X: X
A lot of other possibilities for  trolly-ness exist

Conclusion: The end
Out of those Scenario 2 would be the least interesting to watch play out, I don't see much of a reason to let that all just unfold and have practically nothing happen in the game thanks to the role. It would be kinda interesting, but probably not what Joe would be going for.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

I'm to tired to think lol....I feel like the librarians thing is kinda not really gonna tell us that much but i guess it could be worth a shot...i need to go back through all of the game thread so far to see if i can figure out who is suspicious so far. I was kinda surprised that bridge boy was a villager but i did say he might be..i didn't really want to vote for him just in case and by the time i would have voted any way he already had quite a few votes and the cycle was almost over so  I don't know that i would have stopped the lynch though cuz he did seem suspicious. I guess villagers are just like that sometimes.

Edited May 12, 2017 by BrightnessRadiant

[Droughtbringer]

Note on votes:
Please be careful with leaving a singular vote on someone, it can end fairly badly and be mean and such, as there is enough vote manip out there, and there are people out there who really want a multi person lynch *cough*Lopen*cough* and might do something there to guarantee that it happens. So just be careful of leaving a singular vote on someone.

@Cluny the Scourge With that in mind I am willing to to take my vote off of you, but you have to respond to it first.

[Herowannabe he/him]

16 minutes ago, queensteph said:

I think hero meant this, because it looks like it could mean that you are a librarian.

Herowannabe It's not a lot to go off of, especially since we have JUST stated that all of the librarians could be village.

so why vote for him, just because you believe he revealed he's a librarian?

 

ninja'd by hero oh well

Drought is as good a candidate as any I have right now, so why not? No point in waiting, cycles are only 24 hours long so the sooner we get votes cast for someone/anyone the better we'll be able to analyze and discuss them. So in short, I want to get the voting going. And it's already working! See? You've already cast a vote on me!

 

also, I just noted this in the GM's Writeup:

4 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Bachelors, Bachelorettes, and Dinosaurs:

I take offense at that (jokingly)! Dinosaurs are people, too! Okay well actually no they're not. In fact the particular dinosaur we're talking about here is more inclined to eat people than associate with them, but that's besides the point. The point is that the terms "bachelor" and "bachelorette" don't apply just to human beings. Dinosaurs have legitimate marital statuses too you know!

speaking of which, this particular dinosaur is a bachelor and he is more than willing to entertain offers of marriage / exclusive plutonic friendship. And think if, if you marry Herb, whether or not you win or lose the game, whether or not Herb betrays and eats you, you will go down in SE history as the first (and probably the only) person to ever get married to a dinosaur. That's pretty cool, right? And if you happened to share any smedry powers you may have with said dinosaur, well that would be a sweet bonus. I promise I will not use any such powers for evil purposes. 

 

EDIT: ninja'd by @DroughtBringer  Eh, you make a fair point about the trolliness of the scenarios, but I notice that you still haven't denied being a librarian, which leads me to believe I'm right about you either being a librarian or wanting us to think you are. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Herowannabe

[Droughtbringer]

5 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

EDIT: ninja'd by @DroughtBringer  Eh, you make a fair point about the trolliness of the scenarios, but I notice that you still haven't denied being a librarian, which leads me to believe I'm right about you either being a librarian or wanting us to think you are. 

I am. But I don't want us to rely too heavily on the information I can gather from it. 
(no point in denying it now )
If I find any librarians I will probably PM them, and talk with them a bit. If they seem suspicious I will reveal them to the thread, that is also what I would suggest other Librarians do, for the time being.

[Seonid he/him]

I can guarantee that the all-librarian scenario is false. Not much more to say yet - it's late where I am,  and i need sleep.  Expect more from me tomorrow

[Droughtbringer]

1 minute ago, Seonid said:

and i need sleep.

Goodnight! and thanks for the info.

[queensteph she/her]

From the rules:

Librarians: These players have Librarian training, and can detect other players with Librarian training. There are Hushlanders without this ability, and there are Freeworlders with this ability. This is not an alignment scanner.

I feel like by him clarifying that it's not an alignment scanner. That it is indeed a scanner. Plus where would be the fun in just knowing all the librarians?

It'd be more fun to find out on your own I'd think.

Edited May 12, 2017 by queensteph
Put the actual rules in bold.

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

 

2 hours ago, Yitzi2 said:

Yeah, if it's a 1-cycle scan, Freeworlder Librarians should indicate to trusted individuals what they know (or to untrusted individuals, and let someone know to whom they gave their role info), but not be too open until they have a lot of info to share.

@A Joe in the Bush Is it a 1-cycle scan, or automatically known?

1 cycle scan. According to the rules, Librarians do not start with a list of Other Librarians.

2 hours ago, Yitzi2 said:

Early-game suspicions are not really my strength.

They could all be good; it's a 1 in 16 chance that will happen.  Of course, in such case there probably won't be very many Librarians.

1 in 16? I easily made a lot more than 16 role distributions. And then I choose the funniest one.

1 hour ago, DroughtBringer said:

Joe would do this literally just because he wanted to. He is that type of GM...there is a reason this game is titled "You don't want to play this"

I really would. 

1 hour ago, DroughtBringer said:

I don't see much reason for there to be no one being a librarian. It wouldn't create any of the confusion that Joe thrives off of.

Scenario 1: All Librarians
We all start scanning people like crazy, and the first person we scan is revealed to be a librarian, then we scan someone that, if person A is an elim, is likely to be an elim as well through there interactions. Based off of this info we all build our own elim teams in our head, and we end up believing it quite a bit. Chaos ensues.

Scenario 2: No Librarians
We all start being like Librarians do this! Don't do this! Give me a book! And no one does anything, because if someone were to say that they were a librarian cause they could be scanned by another librarian and proven wrong, probably lynched.

Scenario 3: One Librarian
We all start looking for one person to come forward, and this one person is looking around can't find any librarians, and is lead off of the course of the elims, and tries really hard to find someone but is dead before they do anything. Even better they announce to the thread that the best guess for an Elim is not a librarian, and they escape the lynch thanks to that.

Scenario X: X
A lot of other possibilities for  trolly-ness exist

Conclusion: The end
Out of those Scenario 2 would be the least interesting to watch play out, I don't see much of a reason to let that all just unfold and have practically nothing happen in the game thanks to the role. It would be kinda interesting, but probably not what Joe would be going for.

Scenario 1: Were Bridge Boy and Sart Librarians?

Scenario 2: All Roles are present in the game. (Are there variations of some roles? Are there secret roles? No Comment)

1 hour ago, Herowannabe said:

also, I just noted this in the GM's Writeup:

I take offense at that (jokingly)! Dinosaurs are people, too! Okay well actually no they're not. In fact the particular dinosaur we're talking about here is more inclined to eat people than associate with them, but that's besides the point. The point is that the terms "bachelor" and "bachelorette" don't apply just to human beings. Dinosaurs have legitimate marital statuses too you know!

speaking of which, this particular dinosaur is a bachelor and he is more than willing to entertain offers of marriage / exclusive plutonic friendship. And think if, if you marry Herb, whether or not you win or lose the game, whether or not Herb betrays and eats you, you will go down in SE history as the first (and probably the only) person to ever get married to a dinosaur. That's pretty cool, right? And if you happened to share any smedry powers you may have with said dinosaur, well that would be a sweet bonus. I promise I will not use any such powers for evil purposes. 

Like Belkar, Sabanta doesn't understand Reptilian reproduction, and thus, cannot tell Dinosaur Genders apart.

Edited May 12, 2017 by A Joe in the Bush

[Herowannabe he/him]

1 hour ago, queensteph said:

From the rules:

Librarians: These players have Librarian training, and can detect other players with Librarian training. There are Hushlanders without this ability, and there are Freeworlders with this ability. This is not an alignment scanner.

I feel like by him clarifying that it's not an alignment scanner. That it is indeed a scanner. Plus where would be the fun in just knowing all the librarians?

It'd be more fun to find out on your own I'd think.

Well that and Drought basically confirmed that it is a scanning role because he said he's still searching for other librarians. 

1 hour ago, DroughtBringer said:

I am. But I don't want us to rely too heavily on the information I can gather from it. 
(no point in denying it now )
If I find any librarians I will probably PM them, and talk with them a bit. If they seem suspicious I will reveal them to the thread, that is also what I would suggest other Librarians do, for the time being.

"Aha! Jolly good! I was right, you are a librarian!" Herb bellowed, causing heads to turn. Herb was so happy that he did a little caper and forgot all about eating  Droughtbringer,  who slipped away while the dinosaur was distracted. 

Also, good plan. I wish you luck. 

Also, I've notice Cloudjumper lurking but he has yet to post anything in the game since it started. Being completely inactive is regrettable, but lurking without posting is supicious. Care to explain yourself @cloudjumper?

 

[DeTess she/her]

Joe last cycle:

Quote

I will not say "A Player was Converted" But Sabanta will mention that she and a friend finally managed to defect, so read the writeups. Hints will be peppered throughout.

Joe this cycle:

7 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Their wedding was a huge affair. Crystin knights, My cousins, Librarians, Astronauts and even a dinosaur were there. The biggest party I’ve been to in years! And absolutely perfect for striking up conversations with possible Hushlanders Unfortunately, i didn’t find one. But i found someone just as good! One of the people i talked to was actually in recruitment talks. They mentioned bringing me along, and i said yes, so i was brought to an actual agent, and they cleared me! I’m a Hushlander Agent now!

So, it seems we've got a conversion. It's a cycle 1 conversion, so I don't think it was motivated by obtaining a smedry power, unless someone made an unwise decision in telling someone their ability (please let it not be the dancer, please let it not be the dancer). If I had to guess, I'd say that two of the Lopen-clan where elims, and decided to recruit the third, but I can't prove that (and unless you can, you shouldn't be voting on them just because I said they might be evil). Anyone have any thoughts on this, or does anyone want to admit to defecting (that would be fantastic)?

[TheMightyLopen he/him]

22 minutes ago, randuir said:

Joe last cycle:

Joe this cycle:

So, it seems we've got a conversion. It's a cycle 1 conversion, so I don't think it was motivated by obtaining a smedry power, unless someone made an unwise decision in telling someone their ability (please let it not be the dancer, please let it not be the dancer). If I had to guess, I'd say that two of the Lopen-clan where elims, and decided to recruit the third, but I can't prove that (and unless you can, you shouldn't be voting on them just because I said they might be evil). Anyone have any thoughts on this, or does anyone want to admit to defecting (that would be fantastic)?

Good catch, I hadn't realized that. I kinda wish we were all elims...that sounds fun.  Sadly it is not the case this time.

Anyways, that is odd that they'd convert C1. My guess for why they'd convert so early would be that they found either a smedry or a Knight of Crystalia player. Of the Smedry powers, the dancing and tripping talents seem like the most useful ones for the elims, dancing especially. So if you know of the players with these roles, I'd advise watching them very closely. Regardless, it's kind of a relief that we won't have to deal with a conversion later on. Conversions are always a pain... >>

Bridge Boy, sorry for lynching you. :/ I know you haven't played in a while, and I thought about moving my vote simply for that reason, but there really weren't any better options.

I do hope we can learn something from BB's lynch though. I'm pretty tired tonight, so I'll look over exactly what everyone said about BB tomorrow to see if I can find any suspicious behavior surrounding his lynch.

Before I go to bed, I wanted to mention that I was Tripped this past Cycle. I only mention this because there wasn't an elim kill, and I don't want the Tripper getting paranoid that I sent in the elim kill or something and then out themselves and get killed to get this info in the open. I thought I may have been the target of the elim kill, but I asked Joe and he said that a protected against attack would show up in the write-up, so it appears that the elims didn't send in a kill last Cycle. I'd guess that they just forgot, since QF's happen so fast. Well, at least this proves I wasn't converted! Not that I was really able to prove myself before the conversion, but oh well.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

5 hours ago, Ecthelion III said:

Despite her initial annoyance, I see the smallest hint of a smile on Jemma's lips. I smile back warmly, and she blushes, her lips again--

Focus, Aaron! Why are you looking at her lips? You're supposed to be trying to decide whom out of the 18 we should kill.

Isn't that a depressing thought...

It appears that there's one Bad At Math person who didn't place a vote last cycle. I think we'd better look through the players who were on [and likely posted at least once] but didn't vote. I noticed Cloudjumper on recently; I'm not sure if he was on around rollover or not, but I think he's a possible candidate for being Bad At Math. (Not that that says anything about alignment.) I'm fairly certain the extra vote on Orlok came from Bridge Boy, as there's no reason he wouldn't use his power in that way. That accounts for the vote addition and subtraction.

As far as the Librarians roles, I think it's more informative to look at the likely/ideal player distribution of Librarians and non-Librarians. There are likely 4 Hushlanders, so with a 1 in 2 chance, we can expect 2 Hushlander Librarians. There are likely 16 Freeworlders, so with a 1 in 6 chance, we can expect 2.7 (round up to 3) Freeworlder Librarians. You read that right: there are likely more Freeworlder Librarians than Hushlander Librarians, so it's actually more probable that a given Librarian is a Freeworlder than a Hushlander. So in my opinion, it's best to just ignore the Librarian roles. As for who to kill... yes, who to kill... erm....

I blink, and Jemma is looking at me expectantly. Crap. I must have looked like such a fool drifting off into space like that. "No, I understand. If this is a bad time, I can come back later. Maybe 7 PM?"

Smooth, Aaron, real smooth. You blank out for a few moments thinking about murder and now you ask someone that kind of question......

Jemma started. Well that was sudden. Was he trying to ask her out? His expression looked as if he was just as stunned, by what had come out of his mouth, as she was. She started to giggle, setting her book aside. "you know what? I'd like that."

I'm goin to sleep! I will try to analyze the thread tomorrow...