ghost blood purpose

[grayhicks]

i have been wondering what is the exact purpose of the ghost bloods? they seem so enigmatic. sure they attack jasnah, but that seems to have been in retaliation for her killing some of their people; they did want what information she had, but maybe that was more a target of opportunity than the goal. they are attacking the sons of honor, but we are not sure why. could they, the sons of honor, and the disciples of the diagram all have the same goal, but greatly disagree about how to go about it?

 

[Toaster Retribution]

I would guess that the Ghostbloods are the most Cosmere-aware secret society in Roshar. I can even imagine them having a greater goal that concerns more than Roshar. Their goal is hard to pinpoint. Maybe there are clues in their name?

The Diagramists and the Sons of Honor really dont have the same goal. The Diagram purely wants to save the world through following Mr. T's text. The Sons want to return to a society controlled by the church.

[ScavellTane]

My theory is:

1. The main characters will focus on the re-discovery of the Radiants and their powers.

2. The Ghostbloods will provide info on the three shards (Honor, Cultivation and Odium), their relationship to each other and their influence on the Rosharan solar system.

3. The Sons of Honor/Vorin Church will delve into the true purpose/function of the Heralds.

4. The Diagramists will probably be responsible with combating the Voidbringers/Desolation.

 

All of the above will basically push our 'main radiants' to forge a new Oathpact.

Edited April 15, 2017 by ScavellTane

[ARARITA]

was thinking about Mraize's trophy collection ..what if we are being goofy and should be taking it more serious ...

we know Hoid is collecting - and we believe it's for a purpose - undefined as of yet - but for a purpose

what if Mraize and therefore the Ghostbloods are racing Hoid to that conclusion ...

[Calderis]

Just speculation here, but we know that the Ghostbloods have world hoppers and are therefore somewhat Cosmere aware. What if the the three overlapping diamonds of their insignia represents the three realms? 

[grayhicks]

that might be a good catch. the three diamonds are the three realms. do we know if their is any connection between the ghostbloods and the 17th shard group, thats chasing hoid?

[rjl]

Could it be that Gavilar's plans were potentially disasterous and the ghostbloods had good plans + were aware of Gavliar's plans so the ghostbloods tried to kill Gavilar - Jasnah retaliated killing some of them.

So Jasnah and the ghostbloods ended up fighting even though they both have good aims?

[kari-no-sugata]

The Ghostbloods don't seem like a nice bunch.

Quote

You are willing to ponder,” Iyatil said. “Rather than asking question after question. This is good. Your instincts, however, must be judged. Are you the hunter, or are you the quarry?”

“Neither,” Shallan said immediately.

“All are one or the other.”

Hunt or be hunted (kill or be killed). I don't know if that sums up their philosophy in general but it seems plausible. None of them seem "nice" or "good". They seem quite casual about killing. Maybe to them, the whole Cosmere is a hunting ground? For fun, for trophies, for wealth, for power, or who knows what.

[Toaster Retribution]

16 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

The Ghostbloods don't seem like a nice bunch.

Hunt or be hunted (kill or be killed). I don't know if that sums up their philosophy in general but it seems plausible. None of them seem "nice" or "good". They seem quite casual about killing. Maybe to them, the whole Cosmere is a hunting ground? For fun, for trophies, for wealth, for power, or who knows what.

I think that they have bigger goaks than the gathering of trophies. For example, they wanted Lin Davar as highprince for dome reason.

We also have to remember that the two currently living Ghostbloods we have met (Mraize and Iyatil) are connected through a master-apprentice relationship, and are obsessed by hunting. We should probably bot judge all Ghostbloods based on them.

On another note, Mraize is pretty cool.

[kari-no-sugata]

2 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

I think that they have bigger goaks than the gathering of trophies. For example, they wanted Lin Davar as highprince for dome reason.

We also have to remember that the two currently living Ghostbloods we have met (Mraize and Iyatil) are connected through a master-apprentice relationship, and are obsessed by hunting. We should probably bot judge all Ghostbloods based on them.

On another note, Mraize is pretty cool.

I agree that we shouldn't judge all the Ghostbloods based on them, which is why I wrote "I don't know if that sums up their philosophy in general". However, Mraize and Iyatil's attitude is certainly allowed.

I'm not sure if the Ghostbloods wanted Lin as Highprince or if that was Lin's own ambition. Possibly a mix of both. Maybe the group connected to Lin were more after political power?

I'll quote one more thing on this subject:

Quote

“That must be quite the story,” Mraize said, smiling. It was not a pleasant smile. “Know that what you have done is not forbidden, but it is hardly encouraged. We cannot run an organization properly if subordinates consider hunting their superiors to be a primary method of advancement.”

Can you think of any "good" organisations where this would be the case?

 

[Toaster Retribution]

1 hour ago, kari-no-sugata said:

I agree that we shouldn't judge all the Ghostbloods based on them, which is why I wrote "I don't know if that sums up their philosophy in general". However, Mraize and Iyatil's attitude is certainly allowed.

I'm not sure if the Ghostbloods wanted Lin as Highprince or if that was Lin's own ambition. Possibly a mix of both. Maybe the group connected to Lin were more after political power?

I'll quote one more thing on this subject:

Can you think of any "good" organisations where this would be the case?

 

The Ghostbloods were at the very least, willing to help Lin ascend to power. This means that they probably have political interests in Roshar. I dont really see why they would care if they are only after trophies. 

I never said they were good though. My guess (and hope) is that both the Ghostbloods, and Mraize and Iyatil, will be grey characters. Not Sadeas-level bad, but certainly morally questionable. I am in the "Shallan will start to kind of like them and join them for real" camp, and if she does, they can not really be Sauron reborn.

[kari-no-sugata]

27 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

The Ghostbloods were at the very least, willing to help Lin ascend to power. This means that they probably have political interests in Roshar. I dont really see why they would care if they are only after trophies. 

To quote my original post: For fun, for trophies, for wealth, for power, or who knows what.

I never said the only thing they were interested in was trophies.

 

27 minutes ago, Chull #445 said:

I never said they were good though. My guess (and hope) is that both the Ghostbloods, and Mraize and Iyatil, will be grey characters. Not Sadeas-level bad, but certainly morally questionable. I am in the "Shallan will start to kind of like them and join them for real" camp, and if she does, they can not really be Sauron reborn.

Shallan generally comes to like people the more she gets to know them. There's been very few cases where the opposite is true and the Ghostbloods are one. I think it would take something pretty amazing for her to come to like them now.

Mraize says that the Ghostbloods have a "greater purpose" but even if that purpose is notionally good if the methods used to achieve that are evil then I wouldn't consider them "good". So far I find their methods highly questionable at best.

[Radiant_Jaeger]

I don't have much to back this up, but I think that they want to arrange for Odium's escape from braize somehow by tampering with the Oathpact, which is what keeps him on Braize I believe.  Maybe the corruption of the KR through their (the ghostbloods) influence over Shallan, or should I call her Veil? We shall see.

[DeTess]

My own guess is that the ghostbloods are, at least at the top, a worldhopper organization. I think that their overall goal will be somewhat benign, but that they will be ruthless in trying to achieve it. I hope they'll prove to be a foil to the 17th shard, who seem to be trying to enforce a kind of non-interference pact.

I don't have much to back this up, though.

[rjl]

My suggestion that the ghostbloods are good is just an idea I don't know - as the readers we seem to be encouraged to think that they're bad, yet they appear to be working cross purposes with the Sons of Honour who we are also encouraged to think of as bad.

Maybe they have good motives but a belief in "the ends justify the means". OR maybe they're a self-centered group who's motive is just personal gain. OR maybe they're lead by someone with a good motive whilst the organisation is comprised of people just there for themselves - TBH we don't have much way of knowing, all we seem to know about them objectively is:

i) they include 1 or more world hoppers

ii) they have had a fight with Jasnah

iii) they wanted to gain influence via Lin (for unspecified reasons)

iv) they indulge in-fighting

v) they're secretive and organised like criminals

vi) they are opposed to the sons of honour

 

Could they be a Roshar based group of self-centered criminals who have been taken over by a world hopper with noble aims?

 

[Toaster Retribution]

4 hours ago, kari-no-sugata said:

To quote my original post: For fun, for trophies, for wealth, for power, or who knows what.

I never said the only thing they were interested in was trophies.

 

Shallan generally comes to like people the more she gets to know them. There's been very few cases where the opposite is true and the Ghostbloods are one. I think it would take something pretty amazing for her to come to like them now.

Mraize says that the Ghostbloods have a "greater purpose" but even if that purpose is notionally good if the methods used to achieve that are evil then I wouldn't consider them "good". So far I find their methods highly questionable at best.

I apologize for misunderstanding your original post. I did not mean to :-)

I think that there is a certain theme of "journey before destination" in SA, and just like the Diagram, and the Sons of Honor, I would suspect the Ghostbloods to be similarly morally questionable. Exactly how "good" they are will depend on which perspective you have, just like different people can think differently about wether Taravangian is good or not.

[rjl]

I think we can all agree that their methods are morally questionable but, are they going to achieve something good through those methods? That's a different question...

[kari-no-sugata]

1 hour ago, rjl said:

I think we can all agree that their methods are morally questionable but, are they going to achieve something good through those methods? That's a different question...

Quoting from tWok:

Quote

If the intentions were more important than the action, then she had to condemn herself. Perhaps the Philosophy of Aspiration—which stated that objectives were more important than the steps taken to achieve them—would agree with what she’d done, but that was the philosophy she found most reprehensible. Shallan sat here sketching, condemning Jasnah. But Shallan was the one who had betrayed a woman who had trusted her and taken her in. Now she was planning to commit heresy with the Soulcaster by using it although she was not an ardent.

I'm probably in the minority here but I miss the philosophy debates from tWoK. I'm sure we could have a fine time debating Shallan's actions... (though all the main characters have done morally questionable things)

I think the biggest problem with these more utilitarian philosophies in the Stormlight Archive is that they're very dangerous when combined with Odium's ability to corrupt people. Once you have people giving themselves the right to commit evil in the name of the "greater good" then I fear it becomes very easy to corrupt them.

[kari-no-sugata]

2 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

I apologize for misunderstanding your original post. I did not mean to :-)

No problem - these things happen.

 

2 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

I think that there is a certain theme of "journey before destination" in SA, and just like the Diagram, and the Sons of Honor, I would suspect the Ghostbloods to be similarly morally questionable. Exactly how "good" they are will depend on which perspective you have, just like different people can think differently about wether Taravangian is good or not.

This is just my current opinion based on limited evidence: Sons of Honor - evil because they want to cause wide-scale suffering for something most people don't want. Diagramists - evil/neutral because their while their final objective is notionally "good" (and desired by everyone) their methods are terrible and their intermediate steps are incredibly self-serving and liable to go wrong to the extent that I believe it would never work in practice. Ghostbloods - evil/neutral because all their members seem evil/neutral.

[Mistform]

Well the Ghostbloods seem to seek power or at least Mraize and whoever funded Shallan's dad.

Quote

“No, I’m not worried about that one. The old fool sows chaos, but does not reach for the power offered by opportunity. He hides in his insignificant city, listening to its songs, thinking he plays in world events. He has no idea. His is not the position of the hunter. (WoR ch 54)

The "Ghost" part of Ghostbloods could refer to them being very sneaky. If they did go for power I feel they would control stuff from the shadows.

They definitely seek information and will be a source of it.  I suspect their goal/purpose is more local scale than the 17th shard as the cosmere big picture isn't going to be explored in depth until Mistborn era 3.

[Farnsworth]

Blood is something you can soulcast, so maybe that has something to do with it?

[animalia]

The Ghostbloods remind me of orginized crime.

[Quantus]

braaiiiiiiiinnnnnnssss.......

[ZenBossanova]

My working theory is that they are world hopper Mafia (or at least criminal) group dedicated to collecting powers and magics from different shards. The big reason they are on Roshar, is because a Desolation is the best time to gain powers, Surge-binding or Void-binding. They are not really invested in either side winning. That is irrelevant to their interests. 

They are the evil version of what Hoid/Wit appears to be doing. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by ZenBossanova

[+robardin]

The Ghostbloods are an enterprise of organized crime? That would imply they're in it primarily for personal financial gain.

As Mraize said to Shallan at Urithiru, "You are ignorant. You don't know who we are. You don't know what we're trying to accomplish. You don't know much of anything at all... I have answers for you. ... Let Veil come to us. And let her find truth."

They are trying to accomplish something. You don't use the word "accomplish" to refer just to gathering power and riches for the sake of having it. And part of their stockpiling is not just of Things Of Power, but also of Truth.