King Cole he/him Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 So, I've been wondering what happens to the metal after someone burns it. Does it disappear? Or does it get turned into poop? If it does disappear, doesn't that violate the laws of nature? (matter can't be created nor destroyed) Someone please enlighten me 1
Gizmosowner he/him Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Turned into investiture maybe. I know investiture works slightly different from normal energy
Itchy Savant he/him Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 That's a good question. I can't search for any WoBs at the moment but I don't recall seeing one that answers this. Would love to see what he has to say on it.
Stark he/him Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I would assume, seeing as they talk about making sure to burn off all your metals before too long to avoid metal poisoning, that it disappears. Which comes to an interesting point - If the metal is disappearing, is Allomancy finite? Eventually they will run out of accessible metals on the planet. Will certain misting types cease to be relevant (until space age allows for discovery of new extra-terrestrial mines) as their metal stops being available on Scadrial?
Calderis he/him Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Can't look for it at the moment, but there is a WoB that the metal on Scadrial will run out. I'm guessing it won't be a problem til the 80's era trilogy, or the space opera, but that mixed with avoidance of metal poisoning implies it is used up.
The One Who Connects he/him Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 If memory serves, there are two contradicting WoB's on the renewability of metals on Scadrial. For the purpose of the original question, Stark is correct. 1
DeTess she/her Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) On 3/16/2017 at 5:38 PM, King Cole said: If it does disappear, doesn't that violate the laws of nature? (matter can't be created nor destroyed) Actually, the rule is that energy can't be created and destroyed, with the caveat that it can change form. Matter can in fact be destroyed (this forms an import part of Nuclear energy), but it is turned into an equivalent in energy. Likewise, energy can be turned into matter. In the Cosmere, investiture is added to these two, so there is a constant amount of energy+matter+investiture, but the ratio between these changes. Edited March 17, 2017 by randuir
Farnsworth Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 Kelseir tells Vin not to sleep with her metals in her stomach, so she must digest them during the night. So they can't go normally through the digestive system.
Yitzi2 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 So if the metal is turned into Investiture and no longer is physically present...how is Allomancy still considered end-positive? And why the need to draw energy from Preservation, rather than it using the energy coming from the mass of the metal?
+Extesian he/him Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 The metal is destroyed but in the same way if you burn wood it is destroyed. It's just converted into energy/different matter that isn't usable in the same way. Its essence isn't destroyed. It's end positive because the amount of investiture you get by burning it is greater than the investiture that was stored in it. The extra comes from Preservation. Contrast end-neutral magics like feruchemy and Breaths where you get out what you put in. Or hemalurgy where you get out less than you put in. The metal is a catalyst to bring investiture from elsewhere and is consumed (converted) in the process. Possibly to investiture rather than energy. But either way it's not converted to as much investiture as you actually get to use as an allomancer. 1
Sheridan_rd Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 3 hours ago, Extesian said: The metal is destroyed but in the same way if you burn wood it is destroyed. It's just converted into energy/different matter that isn't usable in the same way. Its essence isn't destroyed. In a Q & A Sanderson said "burned" metals are atomized and stay in Scardinal's environment. (Sorry don't have the link) The time required for atomized metals to "condense" into burn able metals again could be very limiting. 1
Farnsworth Posted March 24, 2017 Posted March 24, 2017 If the atoms of metal go everywhere, eventually there is going to be a significant amount of metallic debree in the atmosphere. This could be a problem in era three...
King Cole he/him Posted March 27, 2017 Author Posted March 27, 2017 On 3/17/2017 at 1:29 PM, randuir said: Actually, the rule is that energy can't be created and destroyed, with the caveat that it can change form. Matter can in fact be destroyed (this forms an import part of Nuclear energy), but it is turned into an equivalent in energy. Likewise, energy can be turned into matter. In the Cosmere, investiture is added to these two, so there is a constant amount of energy+matter+investiture, but the ratio between these changes. No, the matter is still there, because in nuclear energy the radiation is from parts of the nucleus splitting off.
DeTess she/her Posted March 27, 2017 Posted March 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, King Cole said: No, the matter is still there, because in nuclear energy the radiation is from parts of the nucleus splitting off. I'm no expert in nuclear physics, but isn't the mass of the products of a splitting reaction less than the mass of the initial atom?
King Cole he/him Posted March 27, 2017 Author Posted March 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, randuir said: I'm no expert in nuclear physics, but isn't the mass of the products of a splitting reaction less than the mass of the initial atom? Yes, the parts of the nucleus are lost so the atom has less mass but the pieces of the nucleus still exists.
ScarletSabre he/him Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 If I recall correctly, once the metal is burned away it's used up, and the Investiture is returned to Harmony after being used through the key that is the metal, who in turn has a system to return it to the ground as a physical metal... I forget the exact terminology, but it put me in mind of the water/rain cycle almost. I DO know that we have a WOB that in the future mining asteroids/other planets are a viable option, though obviously not until the space opera era.
A Secret Corner he/him Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 22 hours ago, randuir said: I'm no expert in nuclear physics, but isn't the mass of the products of a splitting reaction less than the mass of the initial atom? Correct. Matter gets converted to energy, and the amount of energy created dictates the loss of a certain amount of matter. This is what e=mc^2, and all derivatives (from using algebraic and multiplicative rules). 1 hour ago, Rawrbert said: If I recall correctly, once the metal is burned away it's used up, and the Investiture is returned to Harmony after being used through the key that is the metal, who in turn has a system to return it to the ground as a physical metal... I forget the exact terminology, but it put me in mind of the water/rain cycle almost. I DO know that we have a WOB that in the future mining asteroids/other planets are a viable option, though obviously not until the space opera era. I guess this would depend on what precisely happens to the metal. I don't know much on this from WoB, but I personally think that as the metal acts as the focus, the investiture sort of, flows through the metal, atomizing and destructuring it from the energy of the investiture, like how too much electricity can burn up a copper wire.
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