Shqueeves Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 It's commonly accepted that Stormlight can be used to keep a Returned alive and to fuel Awakening. However, how much Stormlight is needed to equate to the singular Breath needed to keep a Returned alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmosowner Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'm no expert on investiture conversions but I'm gonna guess a whole lot. Do we know how many breaths give people the basic skills of stormlight like healing, strength, and perfection? Add the magic specific bonuses and it should maybe even out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 I don't think we have enough information to answer this yet. Perhaps in Oathbringer we'll get a sense of how much Stormlight Vasher needs, which would help... Rosharan years are 1.1 "standard" years. This means there's about 19.3 hours per Rosharan day. Returned need one Breath every 8 days (Warbreaker annotations for chapter 14). IF we assume Nalthis has a "standard" day length of 24 hours, this means they need one Breath every 192 hours. So Vasher needs one Breath worth of Stormlight about every 10 Rosharan days (2 Rosharan weeks). So IF you can assume that Vasher is not gaining/losing his store of Breaths while on Roshar (probably not true; I imagine he's stocking up) then you can check how much he 'consumes' every ten days on Roshar to get the answer. You'd probably have to express the answer in terms of a particular sphere denomination. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) This question has been asked of Brandon. The response as far as I'm aware is: "I don't want to canonize it." (Paraphrased) Edited January 30, 2017 by Spoolofwhool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 30, 2017 Report Share Posted January 30, 2017 Exact Investiture Conversions between magic systems are something Brandon does not want to set in stone for a while. There is a very similar example to this in regards to Aons and modifiers, which also somewhat explains why he doesn't want to do this. He does not really have the time to go through all the possible applications of something like this because of how much work he normally has to get done. And he would have to fact-check a significant portion of his personal wiki to make sure he doesn't approve of something that will later turn out to be broken/overpowered. For example, he has been semi-commital about Lightweavers being able to make a "Death Star esque" laser via manipulation of light waves. They can technically do it, but the only specifics about Stormlight(the kind of specifics you are asking about) was that the cost was in essence: not remotely feasible. The amount of math involved to accurately deal with even a simple question like yours is a lot more than you would first think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 11:53 AM, jofwu said: I don't think we have enough information to answer this yet. Perhaps in Oathbringer we'll get a sense of how much Stormlight Vasher needs, which would help... Rosharan years are 1.1 "standard" years. This means there's about 19.3 hours per Rosharan day. Returned need one Breath every 8 days (Warbreaker annotations for chapter 14). IF we assume Nalthis has a "standard" day length of 24 hours, this means they need one Breath every 192 hours. So Vasher needs one Breath worth of Stormlight about every 10 Rosharan days (2 Rosharan weeks). So IF you can assume that Vasher is not gaining/losing his store of Breaths while on Roshar (probably not true; I imagine he's stocking up) then you can check how much he 'consumes' every ten days on Roshar to get the answer. You'd probably have to express the answer in terms of a particular sphere denomination. Those calculations are a good ballpark estimate (1 breath's worth of stormlight is less than or equal to the amount of stormlight you could get in 192 hours), which is about as good as we can get for now. I would guess every two weeks you can expect at least one highstorm, and Vasher probably has a decent amount of gems to charge up but probably not an insane amount. In terms of fermi-estimation, that means the order of magnitude might be around a small pouch of charged broams. Sanderson hasn't himself made up his mind about a more precise conversion, so we can't know that much about the conversion factor though. Also... In regard to your comment on stocking up... I can't imagine how Vasher would be stocking up on breaths while on Roshar. While a Returned may be able to feed on stormlight, I doubt they can actually convert it to a breath that they can hold indefinitely. I suspect that feeding on stormlight does not require Vasher to literally transform it into a biochromatic breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/30/2017 at 0:23 PM, The One Who Connects said: For example, he has been semi-commital about Lightweavers being able to make a "Death Star esque" laser via manipulation of light waves. They can technically do it, but the only specifics about Stormlight(the kind of specifics you are asking about) was that the cost was in essence: not remotely feasible. I'm suddenly imagining Shallan inhaling an entire highstorm and then transforming it into a rain of pew pew lasers. And to steal a line from Rodney McKay 'That's what happens when you back a brilliant scholar into a corner!'. Hey, if Tavi can do it in Codex Alera... Dammit, now I want that to happen even though I know it won't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Weltall said: I'm suddenly imagining Shallan inhaling an entire highstorm and then transforming it into a rain of pew pew lasers. And to steal a line from Rodney McKay 'That's what happens when you back a brilliant scholar into a corner!'. Hey, if Tavi can do it in Codex Alera... Dammit, now I want that to happen even though I know it won't. It makes me wonder what Nightblood might do in a Highstorm or with the Mists? Doesn't he consume an increasing amount of investiture per second? Theoretically, couldn't he consume an entire storm? Chuck Nightblood at the Everstorm and then problem-solved! Edited February 1, 2017 by teknopathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, teknopathetic said: It makes me wonder what Nightblood might do in a Highstorm or with the Mists? Doesn't he consume an increasing amount of investiture per second? Theoretically, couldn't he consume an entire storm? Chuck Nightblood at the Everstorm and then problem-solved! Nightblood would try to eat the Mist, but the Mist will stay away from it (WoB) for the Stormlight I actually don't know..There is surelly a treeshold to the amount of Investiture Nightblood may consume. Much more we don't even know if Nightbood keeps this Investiture or expend it (and therefore this return to the source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Drake Marshall said: Those calculations are a good ballpark estimate (1 breath's worth of stormlight is less than or equal to the amount of stormlight you could get in 192 hours), which is about as good as we can get for now. I would guess every two weeks you can expect at least one highstorm, and Vasher probably has a decent amount of gems to charge up but probably not an insane amount. In terms of fermi-estimation, that means the order of magnitude might be around a small pouch of charged broams. Sanderson hasn't himself made up his mind about a more precise conversion, so we can't know that much about the conversion factor though. Also... In regard to your comment on stocking up... I can't imagine how Vasher would be stocking up on breaths while on Roshar. While a Returned may be able to feed on stormlight, I doubt they can actually convert it to a breath that they can hold indefinitely. I suspect that feeding on stormlight does not require Vasher to literally transform it into a biochromatic breath. I think it is just that, as a Returned is a Cognitive Shadow attached to a body which requires a divine breath to attach it and a normal breath each week to sustain it, Vasher can use Stormlight in place of a breath. I imagine he only needs any kind of investiture for that purpose, not breath specifically. I'm sure he can't convert it, I think there's a WoB that says he can use Stormlight in place of the breath a week needed to keep him alive, but that he can't use it to awaken for example, As for how much, I suspect it's a 'lot' but look what Szeth can do sucking in one gem worth. All Vasher needs is enough gems and I suspect one of the most Cosmere-aware people has the means to afford them. Edited February 1, 2017 by Extesian Missed a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Doesn't even need gems. Spheres would be all he needs and you can get them at good prices... ten emerald broams for only ten emerald broams... (or half a slave) I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 As other said Vasher didn't convert Stormlight into Breath (if he converts Stormlight->Breath the whole "He has not figure out how to awaken with Stormlight" would becoma a no sense), much more turning Stormlight into Breath would mean overwrite Investiture's Intent (whatever Stormlight's source is) that as far as we know is impossible or difficoult as hell. He simply needs Investiture to sustain himself. If for example he was an Allomancer too He would be probably capable of stay alive burning metal and use the Preservation's Power to sustain himself. He could also remain alive pulling himself in a perpendicularity (but He can't take a perpendicularity with himself when He moves) or stay under the sun on Taldain (if the Taldain's light is actually Invested). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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