[BoM spoilers ahead!] Hoid's objective in BoM

[asterion137]

9 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

What clues have indicated of their ties to Sel? I don't recall any. Also, there are two shards on Sel, just splintered and not held by a vessel. 

Maybe i overstated it a bit, but the "faceless immortal" at the end of BoM matches the description of a svrakiss (a Derethi demon) almost exactly. Plus we already have an example of people from Sel being able to meddle on Scadrial (the Ire)

[Darkness Ascendant]

52 minutes ago, WEZ313 said:

He and Hoid hate each other. I can't imagine them working together and Hoid seems more of a lone wolf anyway,

Though i'd pay good money to see them meet again 

Hate is a pretty strong word. Kelsier did find himself wanting to see the stranger from his time in you know where, and their sparring wasn't becuase of hate

Heck, for all we know hoid might just want information on harmony, or kelsier has something else he wants.

[AerionBFII]

16 minutes ago, Mesa the Ookla said:

Hate is a pretty strong word. Kelsier did find himself wanting to see the stranger from his time in you know where, and their sparring wasn't becuase of hate

Heck, for all we know hoid might just want information on harmony, or kelsier has something else he wants.

Quote

Dear Brandon, If you could have a dinner party with six of the characters that you have written about, which six would you choose and why? Would your answer change if the party was in someone else's house?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Well, it would be tough—I'd have to decide if I wanted the party to be crazy, interesting, or low risk.

For example, inviting Hoid and Kelsier to the same party could result in murdering. Having Sazed around with someone like Jasnah would lead to some great discussions of philosophy.

In the end, I'd probably pick the core WoT cast, just because they've been my friends for so long. Longer than anyone other than Wit and Dalinar, actually. So Perrin, Rand, Mat, Egwene, Nynaeve, and Thom. Fourth book era.

NGU_NS

Wait—are you implying Hoid and Kelsier would want to murder each other, or that they would team up to murder other people?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hoid and Kelsier do not get along. At all.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION

I said that I was still suspicious of Hoid,

BRANDON SANDERSON

to which he said I should be, as those two (Hoid and Kelsier) do not get along. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Your right of course, Hate is a very strong word and i do believe if it was absolutely essential they might come to a compromise or a truce but Brandon has stated a few times that these two do have a great deal of dislike for one another and even implied they might murder each other. 

 

#TeamHoid

 

[emailanimal]

3 hours ago, BeskarKomrk said:

ust a small correction: Odium fought Ambitiom in the Threnody system, not the Taldaim system.

You are correct. This is exactly what I meant.

[Mirdrim]

As far as Odium destroying worlds, it seems like Roshar is an exception in this regard, I think the only reason he wants to destroy the planet in this case is to destroy the civilization upon it, which has become involved in the conflict between shards in some way.

The Oathpact has something to do with his being bound to the Roshar system, I believe, and Humans have become embroiled in this through the KR and the Nahel bond.

I don't particularly think that Odium is interested in destroying planets, but in the case of Roshar he sees it as necessary in order to shatter the Oathpact fully and escape.

We do have to consider that all we know of Trell and Harmony's current conflict is not only in-world, but on-world, meaning we have no perspective of the situation at a shardic level.  All we are seeing is what's happening to Wax & co.  I think it's fairly likely that most of what's happening *on* Scadrial is intended to be a distraction.  Sazed is not as far removed from his own humanity as other shards, and as such, I would think he has a more vested interest in the planet itself.  Though he does not act, partially through a decision of his own and probably also partially due to the nature of the shards he holds, he seems to have spent a good bit of his time just trying to learn from his experiences as a shardholder.  In his conversation with Wax, he explains the mistakes he made in reforming Scadrial, which makes me think he hasn't spent much time observing or attempting to discern what's happening outside of the Scadrial system.

 

Edit: I hadn't considered the possibility of Trell being Odium's new vessel, though I find it doubtful.  Personally, I think people are too fixated on Odium as the only possibility of a 'bad guy' shard.  I really do think that with 16 shards (less those splintered and not held) we will not see so much recycling of characters.  Absolutely, I think Odium is involved with more than just Roshar, but I don't think anything shard-based that is malicious or antagonistic is him.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Mirdrim

[Jofwu]

On 12/10/2016 at 9:39 PM, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

There's only one Shard that we know of that is associated with red eyes.

There's a recent WoB (can't find it, anyone know where?) that the color red DOES have significance in the cosmere, but it is NOT necessarily associated with Odium.

Edit: found it

Edited December 13, 2016 by jofwu

[KidWayne]

What if...

• Autonomy enlisted Odium's help to destroy Dominion on Sel
• Devotion was destroyed because she tried to defend Dominion
• As payment for Odium's help on Sel, Autonomy agreed to assist Odium at some point in the future
• Odium called in his favor, and had enlisted Autonomy's help to defeat Harmony on Scadrial 

The result is an attack from both Autonomy and Odium. The other option is that Rayse is defeated by Bavadin picks up his shard at some point in the future. Either way, the interference on Scadrial seems to have elements of both Odium and Autonomy; Trell is either Autonomy acting in alliance with Odium, Trell is both Odium and Autonomy, or Trell is a cognitive shadow that has been heavily influenced by Autonomy and has enlisted the aid of either Dominion (Svrakiss/Skaze) or Odium (Unmade/Voidspren).

[Cephandrius Everstorm]

On 12/10/2016 at 0:04 PM, Mirdrim said:

Well, a shard is just a massive amount of investiture, so why would Hoid want to gather all of this investiture when he'd had the opportunity to be a shardholder and have a tremendous amount of investiture immediately.

Did Hoid know that Rayse would conspire to destroy and splinter the other shards, and that he wouldn't be able to stop him with a shard?  Does he have some plan to amass huge amounts of Investiture from different sources in order to be able to ascend to a shard of his own, without a previously set intention?

That is a very cool theory, I am not all the way done secret History but the best part about it so far has been the meeting between cognitive realm Kelsier and Cephandrius as well as Preservations observations about Cephandrius. I have been so fascinated looking at all of the different investiture from shards that Hoid has been collecting. I don't know if ascending to a shard would be possible, or if investiture of a specific shard is somewhat limited on other worlds (it would seem from WoR that Hoid may have used emotional or some other type of allomancy when he drops something into his own cup) but it would make some sense that if you could hold the investiture from all shards (including Odium), than you would thereby be invested by Adonalsium himself. However if your theory holds, and Hoid was to ascend and became the 17th shard, would that be something good for the Cosmere or not? We may get glimpses of Hoid's intentions within the existing cosmere novels, but I don't feel that I personally know even a smidgen of what his plans are. 

[Stormblessed98]

On 12/10/2016 at 10:00 AM, Talanelat'Elin Stonesinew said:

Well, Coppermind says that the Wax and Wayne novels take place between Stormlight 5 and Stormlight 6, and I'm guessing Odium is the Bad Guy in Stormlight, so I don't think Odium is being defeated in the half of the series, it would be a waste of the character.

You're assuming that good prevails in the fifth Stormlight novel. As Odium is likely to be a key player in much more than just the Rosharan System, I don't see how Stormlight 5 could be anything but a tragedy. Odium has to win there in order for the entire plot to move forward. 

[Jondesu]

On 1/7/2017 at 5:28 PM, Stormblessed98 said:

You're assuming that good prevails in the fifth Stormlight novel. As Odium is likely to be a key player in much more than just the Rosharan System, I don't see how Stormlight 5 could be anything but a tragedy. Odium has to win there in order for the entire plot to move forward. 

I think there are two basic concepts Brandon may go with (though he's far more creative than I, so he might have an even better idea):

1. As you said, Stormlight 5 ends in tragedy, Odium reigns, and the second set of books is where Roshar will be rebuilt and freed from Odium (I do anticipate a victorious ending, though probably not entirely happy, for the entire series).

2. Like in Mistborn, Stormlight 5 ends in a seeming victory but a renewed or greater/alternate danger still awaits. That could be Odium being freed and leaving, only to find that something happens as a result, or Odium could still be the big bad, or another option.

I've been expecting option 2 personally, but of course, Brandon may not want to reuse that since this is his other major series and he already did that.