Wobs from Oathbringer Update 5

[Botanica she/her]

Thanks for the updates!

If anyone is interested, here's a compendium of all the cosmere-related WoBs from Update 4:

[Reddit WoB] [Oathbringer Spoilers] Stormlight Three Update #4.txt

[VirtuousTraveller he/him]

On 11/20/2016 at 6:14 AM, Yata said:

End-positive and End-Negative (a bit long, but it's a good explaination)

Q:  is the creation of Skaze end-negative?

A: The Skaze, like the Seons, were created when a Shard was splintered. The terminology doesn't quite work there, at least not in the way that scholars in the cosmere would use it.

Interesting.  Would we consider this evidence that the Skaze are splitners of Dominion after all?  It sure sounds that way!

[Oversleep]

Some WoBs I got:

Quote

Q: Is it possible to Soothe/Riot so hard that the person Snaps due to extreme emotions caused by emotional Allomancy?
A: I hadn't considered, but yes, that should work.
source

Quote

Q: In the prologue to the Hero Of Ages, Marsh is using a brass spike when spiking the Keeper.

Why brass? It would allow to steal only Feruchemical Mental powers (memories, wakefulness, mental speed... warmth or determination, that's unclear) and none of them seem particularly important to killing machines the Inquisitors are. Surely Feruchemical healing, or speed, or strength or even age would be more desirable power to steal?

A: You are underestimating mental speed. And, also, versatility.
source

Quote

Q: If a spike was covered in blood - stopping the Hemalurgic decay - and then split into smaller spikes, would there be power loss or not?

Let's say the splitting took place in a bathtub full of blood, so that the spikes would be covered in blood at all times.

A: The split should work.

source

I asked a follow-up on the last one since it's not completely clear but I think we can assume there would not be power loss.

[Yata he/him]

Anothers:

Religion

Q: You might get a laugh out of this, Brandon. You have Jasnah give such a good argument for the atheist point of view that I thought, well Brandon is probably an atheist (as I am). Then I started watching your writing class videos. Oops! In one of them you say that you feel you can successfully draw an atheist character. I certainly agree. ;-) Jasnah does seem to lack compassion to some degree, but I insist that religion is not necessary for one to be compassionate. You draw characters wonderfully! Lift is one of my favorites, so I am definitely looking forward to Arcanum Unbounded.

A: Kaladin is agnostic, which most people miss in these discussions, and is the series argument for a compassionate non-believer. Dalinar is a liberal theist, and Navani an orthodox theist.

Surgebinding and End-X classification (continue from a previous WoB)
Q: So, I've been wondering for a while, which does Surgebinding classify as? Surgebinders don't use their own native investiture to power magic so I suppose that's the case for being classified end-positive, but they do have to go get some investiture and once they use it it's gone and they have to go get more, so that almost seems end-negative. Thanks in advance for any answer even if it's a quick RAFO!

A: The more picky scholars would argue it is end neutral, because the power must be in the system before the Magic can initiate. But others would admit that the spheres are a delaying response for an end-positive system. You're looking too much past the mark with your read. Look at the work done as part of what is in the system. Investiture is not leaving the system in surgebinding, it is doing work, creating potential energy in most cases.

Hemalurgy and godmetals

Q: If a Worldhopper were somehow able to spike themselves with god metals from each shard world e.g. Honor/Cultivation/Odium spike, would it be possible for them to make a miniaturized version of a new shard, or would they just gain powers granted to them by the spikes?

A:  RAFO

Elantris's effect and Replicate Elantris

Q: In Elantris did Elantris ever not exist? like before it was built did the Shaod choose people? and if it did was their power the same? I'm mostly asking that if they were to build another Elantris in Teod would Elantrians be just as powerful over there?

A: Yes, there is a point where Elantrians didn't exist. Excellent question. The rest is a RAFO.

Lord Ruler alternative deaths
Q: If they somehow killed the lord ruler in a conventional manner, would he still have turned to dust?

A: Yes. The metalminds would have stopped being tapped, and the spirit of the matter would probably still have had this strange effect. Not it didn't happen to the bodies of the shard vessels who died.

Koloss' death and Hemalurgy

Q: Would Koloss spikes turn off when they die too, so dead ones shrivel up like raisins?

A: Hemalurgy changes the spirit. So not necessarily.

Shallan and Tetrachromacy

Q: I will have to go back to the books to find specific examples of why I thought this but does Shallan have Tetrachromacy?

A: An interesting theory.

Possession in the Cosmere (continue from a previous WOB)

Q: Oh? Is this meant to be a cryptic tease (because I have ideas!), or am I am just forgetting something that will make me facepalm when someone reminds me of it?

A: No, it will make sense in the next book.

Comment: someone pointed that He may refer to Tanavast's Shadow who replace the original rider of the storm's mind

Q: Are you talking about Ruin/Harmony controlling Hemalurgic Constructs and Odium controlling Voidbringers... or is there something else?

A: You will see soon.

Dilaf's wife and possible jerk Elantrian

Q: Dilafs wife, did the Elantrian who "healed" her know what Dilaf was?

A:  Rafo

 

I think again to have report all the missing WoB

[Eki]

13 hours ago, VirtuousTraveller said:

Interesting.  Would we consider this evidence that the Skaze are splitners of Dominion after all?  It sure sounds that way!

Was there any doubt about this? We knew that (the Aons at the center of) Seons are splinters, and that Skaze are very similar to Seons. I mean, I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but... were there any other theories?

[VirtuousTraveller he/him]

10 hours ago, Eki said:

Was there any doubt about this? We knew that (the Aons at the center of) Seons are splinters, and that Skaze are very similar to Seons. I mean, I don't know if it was ever confirmed, but... were there any other theories?

Because they've been referred to as "evil seons," there was talk that they could have been some kind of corrupted investiture as a result of Odium's work on Sel.  I'm still wondering if they've been influenced by something beyond just being a splinter of Dominion, as "evil" seems like a pretty strong adjective for Brandon to use otherwise (source - #210)

[natc]

So . . . TLR would have aged post-mortem if he died normally, but dead vessels don't have this problem . . . couple that with heightenings and "shades of deity".

 

So by my current interpretations, biological aging is a thing specific to the souls of living beings (the ones that we know can age, anyway. Some things honestly don't . . .), and investiture directly attached to the person/creature in certain ways (like a Shard or breaths would be) can somehow make you less "human", thereby stopping the process of aging without changing the fact that you are [X amount of time] old just by obvious reference to your birth date that is almost certainly in your soul too.

 

So if there was some way to change your soul to the point that you're not really a normal life form anymore, would it be possible to lose the aging problem outright? I vaguely recall Hoid having been described as not quite being human anymore, though he definitely used to be.

[Spoolofwhool]

27 minutes ago, natc said:

So by my current interpretations, biological aging is a thing specific to the souls of living beings (the ones that we know can age, anyway. Some things honestly don't . . .), and investiture directly attached to the person/creature in certain ways (like a Shard or breaths would be) can somehow make you less "human", thereby stopping the process of aging without changing the fact that you are [X amount of time] old just by obvious reference to your birth date that is almost certainly in your soul too.

That's a fair interpretation. I had a thought though. If having breath just suspends your aging, then once you drop below the threshold for the required heightening, wouldn't your age catch up to you and you would immediately die if you're too old?

[Jondesu he/him]

1 hour ago, Spoolofwhool said:

That's a fair interpretation. I had a thought though. If having breath just suspends your aging, then once you drop below the threshold for the required heightening, wouldn't your age catch up to you and you would immediately die if you're too old?

I suspect that would have been mentioned if so. It's possible it just wasn't relevant enough, but I suspect it actually prolongs their total lifespan, and they sort of pick up where they left off.

[natc]

Well, not if your spiritual aging has stopped.

We should probably ask if temporal age (how long you have been alive) and "extent of aging" are the same quantity in the spiritweb.

[Yata he/him]

3 hours ago, natc said:

So . . . TLR would have aged post-mortem if he died normally, but dead vessels don't have this problem . . . couple that with heightenings and "shades of deity".

May I ask you, if you read this theory of mine 

Anyway I notice a couple of topic where we take the route of the off tipic speaking of Spiritual Aging and Immortality....I think it's better to create a specific new topic and move there this kind of  discussions.

 

[Yata he/him]

Double post but I can't proprerly edit the previous (I don't know the reason):

Cosmere and Quantum Physics

Q:  The scene in question is that interlude on SA where two scholars measure the size of spren, and they find that the size oscillates until measured, and then it remains fixed at the measured value. This is totally equivalent to projective measurements in quantum physics, was that your inspiration on this one?

A: Yes, quantum physics plays a role in the way the cosmere works, and this was partially intended to display that. However, we do take a different route, as thinking about something can directly influence it in the cosmere. So it's more a fantastical version of quantum physics.

[Argent he/him]

8 hours ago, Yata said:

Double post but I can't proprerly edit the previous (I don't know the reason):

I would actually encourage you to double post certain situations. For example, when you are including new information some time (more than a few minutes) after your original post. This will make sure the forum filters pick it up and other users (who may have caught your original post) don't miss the information.

[Yata he/him]

On 23/11/2016 at 5:17 PM, Argent said:

I would actually encourage you to double post certain situations. For example, when you are including new information some time (more than a few minutes) after your original post. This will make sure the forum filters pick it up and other users (who may have caught your original post) don't miss the information.

Ah ok Argent

I use this reply to post another wob from the reddit's post...it's something we already know. But I want to be complete with this report

Q:  why do Szeth and Kaladin not suck all the stormlight out of the gems that power shardplate when they fight people wearing plate, thus rendering the plate useless? Is there something different about the gems that power plate that would make this impossible?

A: So, in the magic of Stormlight (and across several of my books) there's are some underlying principles. One is that the power of the magic (which we call investiture) is difficult to manipulate when it is claimed by someone, or something, else.

You can imagine that magic in the process of being used, like the energy powering plate, works like a kind of negative charge to your own magic. Trying to lash someone in Plate will be very difficult, as the stormlight in the plate is going to resist your attempts to push through it and get at the person. Likewise, that power in the plate is actively being used--draining it is difficult.

If you can rip off a piece of the plate, disconnecting it from the system, then you can get at those gemstones and drain them much more easily. But tucked away inside, they're both shielded and being actively used by the armor. They would be virtually impossible to drain.

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

24 minutes ago, Yata said:

If you can rip off a piece of the plate, disconnecting it from the system, then you can get at those gemstones and drain them much more easily. But tucked away inside, they're both shielded and being actively used by the armor. They would be virtually impossible to drain.

But didnt Kal do just that in the duel? He used that piece of Plate to have something strong. Enough to block a Blade, and then it ended up sucking up all of his remaining stormlight. Maybe he just didnt think of taking the Light from it, so it took the Light from him?

[Jondesu he/him]

1 minute ago, The Ninja Yodeler said:

But didnt Kal do just that in the duel? He used that piece of Plate to have something strong. Enough to block a Blade, and then it ended up sucking up all of his remaining stormlight. Maybe he just didnt think of taking the Light from it, so it took the Light from him?

I think because he was using it instead of trying to get to the Stormlight, he ended up powering it, and since it wasn't apart of its own system anymore, it may have needed even more Stormlight than a gauntlet would usually need.

[The Ninja Yodeler he/him]

12 minutes ago, Jondesu said:

I think because he was using it instead of trying to get to the Stormlight, he ended up powering it, and since it wasn't apart of its own system anymore, it may have needed even more Stormlight than a gauntlet would usually need.

Yeah I guesa you're right. It just always nagged at me that he had to actively take in the SL, because as evidence by their first time taking in SL, they dont actually need to actively draw it in. But, thats why I love Sanderson. Its murky, just like it would be if it was real. No solid rules guiding it. Or if there are, we dont know them because of their complexity.

[Lecrakn]

"Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her."

Brandon replied with this to my reddit post, " After reading arcanum unbound I'm thinking its possible that Autonomy is Trell. With the description that the shard doesn't allow people to come to Taldain, but is actively working in other planets. We know that there are shards working to keep Harmony ignorant. This makes sense to me. Any thoughts?"

P.S. First post. Sorry about formatting if it's incorrect. I am including the link to the reddit thread. Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/5f7cm0/autonomyspoilers/ 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Lecrakn

[Argent he/him]

26 minutes ago, Lecrakn said:

"Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her."

Brandon replied with this to my reddit post, " After reading arcanum unbound I'm thinking its possible that Autonomy is Trell. With the description that the shard doesn't allow people to come to Taldain, but is actively working in other planets. We know that there are shards working to keep Harmony ignorant. This makes sense to me. Any thoughts?"

P.S. First post. Sorry about formatting if it's incorrect. I am including the link to the reddit thread. Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/5f7cm0/autonomyspoilers/ 

I've been wondering about Bavadin's apparently gender discrepancy, so I welcome this knowledge very very much. Thank you.

[Jondesu he/him]

3 hours ago, Lecrakn said:

"Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her."

Brandon replied with this to my reddit post, " After reading arcanum unbound I'm thinking its possible that Autonomy is Trell. With the description that the shard doesn't allow people to come to Taldain, but is actively working in other planets. We know that there are shards working to keep Harmony ignorant. This makes sense to me. Any thoughts?"

P.S. First post. Sorry about formatting if it's incorrect. I am including the link to the reddit thread. Thanks!
https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/5f7cm0/autonomyspoilers/ 

That is...amazing. It makes me wonder if Bavadin may not be human, in fact. The third race on Yolen, or even a dragon. 

[Landis963 he/him]

The concept of Bavadin sock-puppeting entire pantheons is both hilarious and (in retrospect) unsurprising.  Because of course Autonomy would play multiple gods by herself, why wouldn't she do that?

[Pagerunner he/him]

@Yata, hurry up and post a new topic for this so you can get the mad rep you deserve. For now, though, I'd just like to let everyone know that Brandon has officially confirmed White Sands' placement in the cosmere chronology. It precedes Elantris.

[Yata he/him]

As @Pagerunner said, I asked to Brandon about the timeline.

Q: If I may ask another thing, did you decide what come earlier in the Cosmere's Timeline between Elantris and White Sand ?

A: White Sand is earlier. I was pretty sure on this, but I wanted to be able to glance at the timeline and make sure I hadn't made any changes. (And I haven't.) It's pretty solidly locked into that place because of certain events around the cosmere, so you can assume it won't change.

This is a great confirm

Edited November 28, 2016 by Yata

[Yata he/him]

My previous question gave birth to a nice conversation about Cosmere's "Immortality":

Q: So White Sand is earlier... damnation then how the heck old is Kriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flipin immortal?

A: There is some time-dialation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal.

Q: Implying that some are actually immortal?

A: Depends on which definition of immortal you mean.

Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)

Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.)

Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.)

Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.)

 

(this sentence is spoiler for who didn't read AU yet but can be easy skipped)

Spoiler

Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The sleepless.)

Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.)

Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.)

And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in.

Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of cognitive shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity.

----------------------------------------------------

Dragonsteel

Q:  is Dragonsteel still planned to be the bookends for the cosmere (2 eras)? thanks and have a great week!

A: Yes, but not exactly how you think. It will make sense when I do it, but the final Mistborn series will be the actual end--Dragonsteel will link to it, though.

A chat with Harmony

Q:  Something I've recently been wondering about is how responsive is Sazed to people in the Cognitive Realm flagging him down for a conversation. Let's say Khriss, during one of her trips between Scadrial and Silverlight just shouts "Yo Harmony, do you have time to chat?", how would he respond?

A: RAFO on this one.

Roshar exotic ecosystem and the strange name that people give to common things

See also: Eastern Rosharans using the word "Wine" for a variety of types of alcohol, when only rare imports from Shinovar actually come from a grape, and naming animals things like "hound" when they only vaguely resemble a creature from Shinovar. (Or the term silk, which is harvested from plants that float in the ocean. Or using the word 'cremling' for any kind of small crustacean or insect, which is a linguistic expansion of the word over the centuries, when there used to be two distinct terms for them.)

Vorin languages, in particular, lend themselves to this kind of simplification of terms.

 

Now a little comment....The Heralds are technically a variety of cognitive shadow

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by Yata

[Spoolofwhool]

5 hours ago, Yata said:

Now a little comment....The Heralds are technically a variety of cognitive shadow

This is really interesting. This, along with him saying that they're reborn, gives plenty of credence to the idea that they're returning in a new body every time.